Clean recording on iRiver at DVinfo.net

Ben Lynn · February 3rd, 2005, 08:39 AM

After running some tests, I'm finding out what others have already mentioned about the iRiver units.

Under normal conditions with a lav mic (powered or not) plugged straight into the iriver, the unit has a lot of self noise. Too much. But when you run in a signal from a preamp and keep the signal strong, it records very nice and clean.

What are some of you doing to counter this? I don't know of any lav mics that run extremely hot like the unit needs and I don't expect people to yell while their wearing the unit.

And just to cover some questions before they come up, yes I've adjusted the recording level settings. Once you go above 45 the noise is unacceptable and has to be processed. But 45 and below results in audio levels that are way to low. Also, switching between the line and mic setting only changes the recording level. Lastly, I'm using an 890 unit.

I would appreciate any feedback on how to get the levels up and keep them clean. Thanks.

Ben

Marco Leavitt · February 3rd, 2005, 09:24 AM

You could always use a separate AD converter. I have an AD-20, which outputs 44.1kHz, but I believe Denecke makes a 48kHz version. I've never measured it, but the signal to noise ratio is very high. In fact, I can't hear any background hiss whatsoever, even after boosting the level in our NLE.

Bob Costa · February 3rd, 2005, 09:28 AM

The Azden 503 seems to be a favorite at another board where there are a bunch of iRiver users. They are recording voices though, not demanding music. It may just be that the 1/8 inch connector just will not work with very low signal levels.

Ben Lynn · February 3rd, 2005, 10:32 AM

Thanks for the replies.

I'm recording voices as well and that's why this is an issue. I've run several different mics into the system with the same results. And all of the mics were superior to the Azden 503. One mic was an Audio Technica powered capsule with XLR to mini connector and even that was low.

Maybe I just need to go cheap on this one and instead of using higher quality mics I should just purchase the cheapy one. But I want confirmation that it's going to solve the problem with the internal noise.

Thanks.

Ben

Jack Smith · February 3rd, 2005, 05:50 PM

Apparently there have been a few people with 800 series irivers that have experienced the noise.(Only some units)The 700 series has not had that problem.If this was a recent purchase I'd think about returning it either for another or a 700 series and test them in the store.
You shouldn't have to live with the noise
smitty

Brian Burns · February 3rd, 2005, 07:00 PM

I switched to Voice in (with the external mic) instead of the Line in. This seemed to make a huge difference and I was able to avoide the pre-amp. Are you getting the background noise using the Voice In?

Ben Lynn · February 3rd, 2005, 08:35 PM

There's always something isn't there! I purchased the iriver through ebay and so I won't be able to return it. All the people praising the little things never mentioned a problem with the 800 series.

Brian, I need to check the manual about the voice function. I believe that there is only a Line or Mic option but it could be model differences or I'm missing another menu.

Thanks.

Ben

Jack Smith · February 4th, 2005, 11:15 PM

Ben I have several of the 700 series units.I assure you they are very clean.Oddly though I set the recording volume between 40 and 50 , depending on mic location(generally 45 to 50)
This normally gives me a file that peaks around -10 db.
I've not personally used the 800 series however some people have reported problems with them.
I know you tried to stop this question but......... the menu system is a little tricky ,so have you set the line in recording to mic level?
It comes set to line level.
I believe the voice recording uses only the built in mic
smitty

Ben Lynn · February 5th, 2005, 08:18 AM

Thanks Jack,

Yes, I did adjust the line and mic levels. In fact, it seems that the only difference between the two is that the unit will automatically go to a preset recording level for each one.

I think I need to cut my losses and put this 890 unit up for sale and go with a 700 series. I'm pretty hesitant to do that after this problem, but the functionality of these units is useful enough that I need to have one.

Thanks.

Ben

Jack Smith · February 6th, 2005, 01:28 AM

I don't understand what you mean by"In fact, it seems that the only difference between the two is that the unit will automatically go to a preset recording level for each one."
The recording level is set in 1 menu location only, and it has to be set manually.
Also to rephrase my question did you go to the control menu , down to "line in/ext.mic" and select mic?

Mark A. Foley · February 6th, 2005, 05:38 AM

For those interested, here is a quick and dirty test between the Azden 503 and the Audio Technica MT830 mics with the 790 iRiver:
http://easylink.playstream.com/foley...ns/mictest.wax

Ben Lynn · February 6th, 2005, 08:36 AM

Jack,

Yes it's been set to Mic in.

Ben

Jack Smith · February 7th, 2005, 09:22 PM

Mark , I've tried to connect to your test seems it will not.Is it working ok? I may have something wrong at my end???
Ben were able to check it out?

Ben Lynn · February 8th, 2005, 07:25 AM

I checked it out and the AT is noticably better than the Azden.

Ben

Brian Burns · February 11th, 2005, 01:34 PM

I filmed an outdoor event this morning where it was in the 20s and in a wind storm. The camera position was not ideal but it was what I was allowed but it was a great opportunity for me to test the Azden 503 and iRiver 790 in an outdoor session. As you can see the speakers passed the iRiver and lav around and most held it around their lower chest area.

I was surprised at the quality of the sound especially in the wind.

You can see/hear it at:
http://visven.dyndns.org:8080/V1130/V1130.wmv

February 3rd, 2005, 08:39 AM	#1
Ben Lynn Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bloomington, IL Posts: 636	Clean recording on iRiver After running some tests, I'm finding out what others have already mentioned about the iRiver units. Under normal conditions with a lav mic (powered or not) plugged straight into the iriver, the unit has a lot of self noise. Too much. But when you run in a signal from a preamp and keep the signal strong, it records very nice and clean. What are some of you doing to counter this? I don't know of any lav mics that run extremely hot like the unit needs and I don't expect people to yell while their wearing the unit. And just to cover some questions before they come up, yes I've adjusted the recording level settings. Once you go above 45 the noise is unacceptable and has to be processed. But 45 and below results in audio levels that are way to low. Also, switching between the line and mic setting only changes the recording level. Lastly, I'm using an 890 unit. I would appreciate any feedback on how to get the levels up and keep them clean. Thanks. Ben

February 3rd, 2005, 09:28 AM	#3
Bob Costa Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Venice, FL Posts: 850	The Azden 503 seems to be a favorite at another board where there are a bunch of iRiver users. They are recording voices though, not demanding music. It may just be that the 1/8 inch connector just will not work with very low signal levels. __________________ You are either growing or dying.

February 6th, 2005, 05:38 AM	#11
Mark A. Foley Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Bonaire, Ga. Posts: 356	Quick and dirty mic test For those interested, here is a quick and dirty test between the Azden 503 and the Audio Technica MT830 mics with the 790 iRiver: http://easylink.playstream.com/foley...ns/mictest.wax

February 3rd, 2005, 09:24 AM	#2
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	You could always use a separate AD converter. I have an AD-20, which outputs 44.1kHz, but I believe Denecke makes a 48kHz version. I've never measured it, but the signal to noise ratio is very high. In fact, I can't hear any background hiss whatsoever, even after boosting the level in our NLE.

February 3rd, 2005, 10:32 AM	#4
Ben Lynn Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bloomington, IL Posts: 636	Thanks for the replies. I'm recording voices as well and that's why this is an issue. I've run several different mics into the system with the same results. And all of the mics were superior to the Azden 503. One mic was an Audio Technica powered capsule with XLR to mini connector and even that was low. Maybe I just need to go cheap on this one and instead of using higher quality mics I should just purchase the cheapy one. But I want confirmation that it's going to solve the problem with the internal noise. Thanks. Ben

February 3rd, 2005, 05:50 PM	#5
Jack Smith Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: ontario Posts: 445	Apparently there have been a few people with 800 series irivers that have experienced the noise.(Only some units)The 700 series has not had that problem.If this was a recent purchase I'd think about returning it either for another or a 700 series and test them in the store. You shouldn't have to live with the noise smitty

February 3rd, 2005, 07:00 PM	#6
Brian Burns Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Springfield, VA Posts: 56	I switched to Voice in (with the external mic) instead of the Line in. This seemed to make a huge difference and I was able to avoide the pre-amp. Are you getting the background noise using the Voice In?

February 3rd, 2005, 08:35 PM	#7
Ben Lynn Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bloomington, IL Posts: 636	There's always something isn't there! I purchased the iriver through ebay and so I won't be able to return it. All the people praising the little things never mentioned a problem with the 800 series. Brian, I need to check the manual about the voice function. I believe that there is only a Line or Mic option but it could be model differences or I'm missing another menu. Thanks. Ben

February 4th, 2005, 11:15 PM	#8
Jack Smith Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: ontario Posts: 445	Ben I have several of the 700 series units.I assure you they are very clean.Oddly though I set the recording volume between 40 and 50 , depending on mic location(generally 45 to 50) This normally gives me a file that peaks around -10 db. I've not personally used the 800 series however some people have reported problems with them. I know you tried to stop this question but......... the menu system is a little tricky ,so have you set the line in recording to mic level? It comes set to line level. I believe the voice recording uses only the built in mic smitty

February 5th, 2005, 08:18 AM	#9
Ben Lynn Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bloomington, IL Posts: 636	Thanks Jack, Yes, I did adjust the line and mic levels. In fact, it seems that the only difference between the two is that the unit will automatically go to a preset recording level for each one. I think I need to cut my losses and put this 890 unit up for sale and go with a 700 series. I'm pretty hesitant to do that after this problem, but the functionality of these units is useful enough that I need to have one. Thanks. Ben

February 6th, 2005, 01:28 AM	#10
Jack Smith Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: ontario Posts: 445	I don't understand what you mean by"In fact, it seems that the only difference between the two is that the unit will automatically go to a preset recording level for each one." The recording level is set in 1 menu location only, and it has to be set manually. Also to rephrase my question did you go to the control menu , down to "line in/ext.mic" and select mic?

February 6th, 2005, 08:36 AM	#12
Ben Lynn Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bloomington, IL Posts: 636	Jack, Yes it's been set to Mic in. Ben

February 7th, 2005, 09:22 PM	#13
Jack Smith Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: ontario Posts: 445	Mark , I've tried to connect to your test seems it will not.Is it working ok? I may have something wrong at my end??? Ben were able to check it out?

February 8th, 2005, 07:25 AM	#14
Ben Lynn Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bloomington, IL Posts: 636	I checked it out and the AT is noticably better than the Azden. Ben

February 11th, 2005, 01:34 PM	#15
Brian Burns Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Springfield, VA Posts: 56	I filmed an outdoor event this morning where it was in the 20s and in a wind storm. The camera position was not ideal but it was what I was allowed but it was a great opportunity for me to test the Azden 503 and iRiver 790 in an outdoor session. As you can see the speakers passed the iRiver and lav around and most held it around their lower chest area. I was surprised at the quality of the sound especially in the wind. You can see/hear it at: http://visven.dyndns.org:8080/V1130/V1130.wmv