Dat, iPod, MP3 or Minidisc to capture sounds? at DVinfo.net

Jack Wheeler · February 1st, 2005, 01:19 PM

What is the best method to capture various sounds? I will be using my iMac, so I know that there are Sony Minidisc issues (right?!).

I am interested in capturing ambient sounds (racetracks, cities, buskers....) and already have a Sony ECM 908 mic.

I intend to use them in my DV editing in iMovie.

Thanks!

Jack Smith · February 1st, 2005, 10:47 PM

I have been using the iRiver recorders (700 series) they work great.Get the 1 gb model if you can.
One problem is to record mono(single channel) you have to invert the left and right channels with an adapter(I made mine)
This doubles the stereo record time (over 13hours at 44k 16bit mono with 1gbmodel)
smitty

Dennis Liu · February 2nd, 2005, 03:44 AM

Hi Jack, if you have the money, the Marantz PMD670 is really great. You record onto CF cards (I have 2 1GB ones, which is PLENTY for usual purposes), and you have a lot of flexibility with the format you record onto - MP2, MP3, WAV, Mono, Stereo, etc.

You also have a large selection of input and output methods - optical, XLR, RCA. There is also a USB port for direct dragging and dropping of the sound files onto your hard drive.

If you search in the forum for earlier posts on this topic, you'll find that most people speak favourably of this device.

I've had no problems with mine since I bought it, and it's been a great replacement for my MD-recorder (a consumer model, very loud machine noises and limited, but of course, not as expensive).

Good luck,
Dennis

Marco Leavitt · February 2nd, 2005, 08:06 AM

I'm a big fan of minidisc. I especially like the archiveability -- you can match one disc to one tape. The new HiMD units have finally eliminated many of the barriers to making digital transfers.

Robert Mann Z. · February 2nd, 2005, 08:47 AM

marco

can you copy the music off the new mini discs at a faster rate then 1x to a computer?...my old mini disc player was limited to real time song transfers...

Jack Wheeler · February 2nd, 2005, 09:41 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Marco Leavitt : I'm a big fan of minidisc. I especially like the archiveability -- you can match one disc to one tape. The new HiMD units have finally eliminated many of the barriers to making digital transfers. -->>>

Thanks, but also on Mac ? ?

Marco Leavitt · February 2nd, 2005, 11:12 AM

I believe that the new HiMDs do allow faster than real-time uploads. Unfortunately, the Sony software apparently will only do the upload after deleting the file from the disc. Frigging Sony. If something goes wrong with the upload, you can lose your file. Check out out the forums at minidisc.org. There's quite a lot of discussion about this. Most people are using a more reliable third party hack that only allows for a real time transfer, but at least there's no danger of losing your file. Besides, as I mentioned, one of the best things about minidisc is its archiveability. I sure wouldn't want to have my original disc erased. All of this only works for PC. I'm also on a Mac. We use the older style minidisc and do the transfer with a deck that has optical outputs. Still not a bad way to go. It's very reliable and used minidisc gear is now dirt cheap on eBay.

Jose di Cani · February 2nd, 2005, 04:04 PM

is a small device (the size of a packer of cards) reallly that good for recording? I don't think you can get great quality with that. Better us a bigger hardware device with better in and outputs like the marantz or other bigger nad more heavier. hardware

Jack Smith · February 3rd, 2005, 01:07 AM

The iriver is half the size of a deck of cards and can use usb 2.0 so the files transfer very fast.An hour of recording = 3 minutes to transfer(depending on your computer)It is restricted to .rec files which are mp3 files but I'm very pleased with the sound quality at 44k 16bit 320kbps.
Jose :This is 1 case that size doesn't matter!
Marco: No moving parts in the iriver ,faster file transfers, as good if not better quality recordings, longer record times and compact size.......... minidisc has had it's place but I believe the iriver at the moment(technology changes fast) to be substantially a better choice.
Dennis: Thanks for the heads up and Marantz does make good gear that unit is excellent in the right situations.But it won't in the talents pocket and the marantz does like a lot of power.
So for remote situations or when you need to mic several sources Ilike this little iriver.
jack: for archiving I just drop the files onto cd.
Thanks
smitty

Marco Leavitt · February 3rd, 2005, 07:36 AM

Jack,
Does the iRiver have a meter? I've heard repeatedly that it does not, which I find a little hard to believe, and more than a little frustrating.

Jack Smith · February 3rd, 2005, 06:03 PM

It doesn't have a record level meter, only a playback one.Although I didn't like the idea of no meter and I wish they would put one on it, it hasn't posed a problem for me.Once you establish typical mic positioning and experiment with volume settings , the unit seems pretty stable.
On some shoots I take the laptop , do an audio check, dump to laptop and have a look at the file in software.Doesn't take any longer than a normal sound check.
Now bear in mind that this device has it's place and isn't a cure-all for every situation.
You still need a sm58 , wireless system, etc. in situations calling for them.
This is just another tool
smitty

Arne Johnson · March 27th, 2005, 01:08 PM

Marco, not sure if this has changed since you posted, but my Hi-MD doen't delete the file when it transfers the first and only time you're allowed. The file stays on the disk, but deletes if you try to transfer again. It means the discs are still good archive material, just means you have to go line-in through your sound card next time (ad infinitum), which isn't terrible as a backup. Annoying, yes, but still archivable.

Marco Leavitt · March 27th, 2005, 01:45 PM

Thanks Arne. I can see where the confusion would come from with that.

Kurth Bousman · March 27th, 2005, 04:44 PM

Marantz has a new CF recorder - pmd 660 I believe . that's walkman size - cost 5 bills - xlrs' - the whole 9 yards- Kurth

Steve House · March 29th, 2005, 07:36 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Arne Johnson : Marco, not sure if this has changed since you posted, but my Hi-MD doen't delete the file when it transfers the first and only time you're allowed. The file stays on the disk, but deletes if you try to transfer again....snip...-->>>

HUH??? After recording you're only allowed to transfer the file off of the master ONCE? I'm not very familiar with HD recording but that sure seems wacko to me. Sounds incredibly risky, especially for professional use. What happens if you're transferring and something goes haywire? One file, one chance to transfer, with your entire production, not to mention your professional reputation, resting on the odds that nothing will EVER go wrong (and nothing is ever perfect 100% of the time in my experience)?

Is this universal with miniDisk technology or is it just a "feature" of specific brands and recorder models? If you don't mind and if it's something unique to specific models, what recorder are you using (so I can avoid it if I decide to go the miniDisk route for location sound myself)?

Steve

February 1st, 2005, 01:19 PM	#1
Jack Wheeler New Boot Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 16	Dat, iPod, MP3 or Minidisc to capture sounds? What is the best method to capture various sounds? I will be using my iMac, so I know that there are Sony Minidisc issues (right?!). I am interested in capturing ambient sounds (racetracks, cities, buskers....) and already have a Sony ECM 908 mic. I intend to use them in my DV editing in iMovie. Thanks!

February 1st, 2005, 10:47 PM	#2
Jack Smith Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: ontario Posts: 445	I have been using the iRiver recorders (700 series) they work great.Get the 1 gb model if you can. One problem is to record mono(single channel) you have to invert the left and right channels with an adapter(I made mine) This doubles the stereo record time (over 13hours at 44k 16bit mono with 1gbmodel) smitty

February 2nd, 2005, 03:44 AM	#3
Dennis Liu Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 136	Hi Jack, if you have the money, the Marantz PMD670 is really great. You record onto CF cards (I have 2 1GB ones, which is PLENTY for usual purposes), and you have a lot of flexibility with the format you record onto - MP2, MP3, WAV, Mono, Stereo, etc. You also have a large selection of input and output methods - optical, XLR, RCA. There is also a USB port for direct dragging and dropping of the sound files onto your hard drive. If you search in the forum for earlier posts on this topic, you'll find that most people speak favourably of this device. I've had no problems with mine since I bought it, and it's been a great replacement for my MD-recorder (a consumer model, very loud machine noises and limited, but of course, not as expensive). Good luck, Dennis

February 2nd, 2005, 08:06 AM	#4
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	I'm a big fan of minidisc. I especially like the archiveability -- you can match one disc to one tape. The new HiMD units have finally eliminated many of the barriers to making digital transfers.

February 2nd, 2005, 08:47 AM	#5
Robert Mann Z. Skyonic New York Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NYC Posts: 614	marco can you copy the music off the new mini discs at a faster rate then 1x to a computer?...my old mini disc player was limited to real time song transfers...

February 2nd, 2005, 09:41 AM	#6
Jack Wheeler New Boot Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 16	<<<-- Originally posted by Marco Leavitt : I'm a big fan of minidisc. I especially like the archiveability -- you can match one disc to one tape. The new HiMD units have finally eliminated many of the barriers to making digital transfers. -->>> Thanks, but also on Mac ? ?

February 2nd, 2005, 11:12 AM	#7
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	I believe that the new HiMDs do allow faster than real-time uploads. Unfortunately, the Sony software apparently will only do the upload after deleting the file from the disc. Frigging Sony. If something goes wrong with the upload, you can lose your file. Check out out the forums at minidisc.org. There's quite a lot of discussion about this. Most people are using a more reliable third party hack that only allows for a real time transfer, but at least there's no danger of losing your file. Besides, as I mentioned, one of the best things about minidisc is its archiveability. I sure wouldn't want to have my original disc erased. All of this only works for PC. I'm also on a Mac. We use the older style minidisc and do the transfer with a deck that has optical outputs. Still not a bad way to go. It's very reliable and used minidisc gear is now dirt cheap on eBay.

February 2nd, 2005, 04:04 PM	#8
Jose di Cani Major Player Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Holland, Europe Posts: 214	is a small device (the size of a packer of cards) reallly that good for recording? I don't think you can get great quality with that. Better us a bigger hardware device with better in and outputs like the marantz or other bigger nad more heavier. hardware

February 3rd, 2005, 01:07 AM	#9
Jack Smith Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: ontario Posts: 445	The iriver is half the size of a deck of cards and can use usb 2.0 so the files transfer very fast.An hour of recording = 3 minutes to transfer(depending on your computer)It is restricted to .rec files which are mp3 files but I'm very pleased with the sound quality at 44k 16bit 320kbps. Jose :This is 1 case that size doesn't matter! Marco: No moving parts in the iriver ,faster file transfers, as good if not better quality recordings, longer record times and compact size.......... minidisc has had it's place but I believe the iriver at the moment(technology changes fast) to be substantially a better choice. Dennis: Thanks for the heads up and Marantz does make good gear that unit is excellent in the right situations.But it won't in the talents pocket and the marantz does like a lot of power. So for remote situations or when you need to mic several sources Ilike this little iriver. jack: for archiving I just drop the files onto cd. Thanks smitty

February 3rd, 2005, 07:36 AM	#10
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	Jack, Does the iRiver have a meter? I've heard repeatedly that it does not, which I find a little hard to believe, and more than a little frustrating.

February 3rd, 2005, 06:03 PM	#11
Jack Smith Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: ontario Posts: 445	It doesn't have a record level meter, only a playback one.Although I didn't like the idea of no meter and I wish they would put one on it, it hasn't posed a problem for me.Once you establish typical mic positioning and experiment with volume settings , the unit seems pretty stable. On some shoots I take the laptop , do an audio check, dump to laptop and have a look at the file in software.Doesn't take any longer than a normal sound check. Now bear in mind that this device has it's place and isn't a cure-all for every situation. You still need a sm58 , wireless system, etc. in situations calling for them. This is just another tool smitty

March 27th, 2005, 01:08 PM	#12
Arne Johnson Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: United States Posts: 88	Marco, not sure if this has changed since you posted, but my Hi-MD doen't delete the file when it transfers the first and only time you're allowed. The file stays on the disk, but deletes if you try to transfer again. It means the discs are still good archive material, just means you have to go line-in through your sound card next time (ad infinitum), which isn't terrible as a backup. Annoying, yes, but still archivable.

March 27th, 2005, 01:45 PM	#13
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	Thanks Arne. I can see where the confusion would come from with that.

March 27th, 2005, 04:44 PM	#14
Kurth Bousman Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: san miguel allende , gto , mexico Posts: 644	Marantz has a new CF recorder - pmd 660 I believe . that's walkman size - cost 5 bills - xlrs' - the whole 9 yards- Kurth

March 29th, 2005, 07:36 AM	#15
Steve House Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada Posts: 5,742	<<<-- Originally posted by Arne Johnson : Marco, not sure if this has changed since you posted, but my Hi-MD doen't delete the file when it transfers the first and only time you're allowed. The file stays on the disk, but deletes if you try to transfer again....snip...-->>> HUH??? After recording you're only allowed to transfer the file off of the master ONCE? I'm not very familiar with HD recording but that sure seems wacko to me. Sounds incredibly risky, especially for professional use. What happens if you're transferring and something goes haywire? One file, one chance to transfer, with your entire production, not to mention your professional reputation, resting on the odds that nothing will EVER go wrong (and nothing is ever perfect 100% of the time in my experience)? Is this universal with miniDisk technology or is it just a "feature" of specific brands and recorder models? If you don't mind and if it's something unique to specific models, what recorder are you using (so I can avoid it if I decide to go the miniDisk route for location sound myself)? Steve