windy outdoor interview set up at DVinfo.net

Michael Bendixen · January 27th, 2005, 12:13 PM

I just want to through out a problem I have all the time on my shoots when I'm doing a standard outdoor interview.
My sound equipment consists of a Senn. Me66, Blimp, boom pole, wireless lav, wired lav.
I've been micing the subject with the wireless lav and have had a boom operator hold the shotgun.
What I usually get is a lot of wind on the lav and the Shotgun is too quiet.

I've tried ordering a wire mesh windscreen for the lav from locationsound but they didn't have one that fits and I've tried using a cut off finger from a glove as well.

I would get the shotgun closer but a lot of times the background is very important to my shot.

Should I just use a lav? Reframe the shot to get the shotgun closer? Etc. Etc.

Thanks for your help,

Michael

Jay Massengill · January 27th, 2005, 03:07 PM

There are several furry screens for lav elements available from various manufacturers. For example, the Micro-Cat:

http://www.trewaudio.com/catalog/subcat65.htm

What lav element are you using? Omni's are typically less sensitive to wind than cardioid elements. If you have a cardioid element and it's an emergency, you can change it into an omni by carefully applying a small band of gaffers tape around the holes in the body of the mic. Depending on the model, this may adversely affect the sound, but usually it doesn't.

What camera are you using? Also, are you employing any low-cut switches?

Greg Boston · January 27th, 2005, 03:43 PM

Michael,

FWIW, I read about a trick on a news photog site that sounds legit though I haven't tried it yet.

Take an extra mic, tape it to the tripod leg and let it capture just the wind noise. In post, take the wind noise and invert the signal phase 180 degrees. Then, combine with your original lav mic sound track. This shoud give an 'active noise cancellation' effect.

If you get a chance to try this, please post back with the results.

regards,

=gb=

Ty Ford · January 27th, 2005, 09:59 PM

If that works, it would be somewhat of a miracle because the wind captured in each mic would have to be exactly equal and opposite.

If the wind were actually ruffling the mic, I doubt that would work.

Having said that, I have been able to reduce HVAC noise when using 3-4 lavs by flipping the #2 channel of my Sound Devices mixer to reverse polarity.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Greg Boston · January 27th, 2005, 10:45 PM

Ty,

I see what you mean, but I think if you have the same make and model mic as the dialog mike (equal response curves), you should get fairly equal wind noise signatures. As I stated above, the opposite polarity wind noise signal would be created in post production. You might need to adjust the amplitude to get the algebraic cancellation as close as possible. I'm thinking of a situation where the interview is a two shot of reporter and interviewee. The camera tends to be just a few feet away in those situations. Sounds like the same technique you employed in your HVAC example.

Again, it was posted by a news photog who claimed it worked for them and I was passing this along as a possible solution. The only way I can really stand behind this statement is to be as far back as I can get if you know what I mean.(grin)

regards,

=gb=

Ty Ford · January 27th, 2005, 10:58 PM

You don't get off that easy Greg! :) You have to go out and try it and then report back! :)

Ty

Greg Boston · January 27th, 2005, 11:25 PM

Ok Ty, will do.

BTW, I just listened to some of your MP3 demos and it made me wax nostalgic for my old days in radio (late 70's). Was gonna be a chief engineer (had my FCC 1st phone) but the semiconductor industry wooed me away with money and a kinder work schedule. But I swear, I do miss the business sometimes. I think of all the commercials and interviews I edited by splicing 1/4 inch tape and I marvel at our wave editors. It almost feels like cheating! Anyway, good stuff and great voice on your site.

regards,

=gb=

Ty Ford · January 28th, 2005, 06:53 AM

Me too. I was "in" for 17 years as everything from an announcer, PD, Prod. D, CE and OM. I "graduated" from the Hearst School of Broadcasting (WBAL/WIYY) in 1986.

While today's tools are truly remarkable. (Heck, the first DAW I used was an AKG DSE7000 which I bought for $26K in 1991) , I find people today are equally amazed to learn that we cut tape and glued it back together!!

I still have two Revox PR99 7.5/15ips decks, a Denon and a Nakamichie cassette deck, btw.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Colin Sato · July 9th, 2005, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

I still have two Revox PR99 7.5/15ips decks, a Denon and a Nakamichie cassette deck, btw.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Hey, I've got a Revox B215 cassete deck! It's 23 lbs, and would make a great door stop if only it didn't block the whole doorway (for all I use a cassette nowadays).

I looked into this thread because I've got huge wind problems on the little videos I'm doing. I'm using a Mic Madness cardioid lav, and even the slightest breeze kills the sound. There are little foam wind screens on it but they're not doing the job.

I'm considering ordering Micro-cats from the post above, does anyone have audio samples using this product? I'm a little concerned that it'll look like a tribble on my shirt!? I'll probably find that it costs $20 to send a $25 part to Hawaii (sigh) but if it works, it would be worth it.

Stephanie Wilson · July 10th, 2005, 01:30 AM

I've been micing the subject with the wireless lav and have had a boom operator hold the shotgun.
What I usually get is a lot of wind on the lav and the Shotgun is too quiet.

Hey Michael,

Re: the lav, try placing it on the INSIDE flap of their jacket.

Re: the shotgun, you may have the filters set incorrectly. Read your manual my friend.

Best of Luck

Ty Ford · July 10th, 2005, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colin Sato

I looked into this thread because I've got huge wind problems on the little videos I'm doing. I'm using a Mic Madness cardioid lav, and even the slightest breeze kills the sound. There are little foam wind screens on it but they're not doing the job.

I'm considering ordering Micro-cats from the post above, does anyone have audio samples using this product? I'm a little concerned that it'll look like a tribble on my shirt!? I'll probably find that it costs $20 to send a $25 part to Hawaii (sigh) but if it works, it would be worth it.

Dunno, but cardioids are more sensitive to wind than omnis. You might find the Rycote stickies, over and undercovers helpful..

http://www.rycote.com/

Regards,

Ty Ford

Shawn Redford · July 10th, 2005, 10:33 PM

Spot had a really great video on this in this thread titled "Well blow me down!", but for some reason I can't get the video to play now. The bottom line (if I recall correctly) was that Spot stood with his back to the wind and used the AT897 (shotgun) which worked much better than an AT899 (lav). Since his body was blocking the wind, the mic did not get hit with so much wind and the result was a better/cleaner signal. If you're videoing, you would probably need someone to block the wind/hold the mic for those being interviewed, and then setup the camera at an angle (assuming you don't want the newly-recruited-audio-assistant in the shot). The key thing would be to make sure that the wind is blocked first and then the camera is setup afterward. It might work just as well if those being interviewed were blocking the wind.

Spot - Is there any way to download the little video that you made?

"Well blow me down!"
http://www.dmnforums.com/cgi-bin/dis...0809185907.htm

January 27th, 2005, 12:13 PM	#1
Michael Bendixen Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Corvallis, OR Posts: 109	windy outdoor interview set up I just want to through out a problem I have all the time on my shoots when I'm doing a standard outdoor interview. My sound equipment consists of a Senn. Me66, Blimp, boom pole, wireless lav, wired lav. I've been micing the subject with the wireless lav and have had a boom operator hold the shotgun. What I usually get is a lot of wind on the lav and the Shotgun is too quiet. I've tried ordering a wire mesh windscreen for the lav from locationsound but they didn't have one that fits and I've tried using a cut off finger from a glove as well. I would get the shotgun closer but a lot of times the background is very important to my shot. Should I just use a lav? Reframe the shot to get the shotgun closer? Etc. Etc. Thanks for your help, Michael __________________ Wonderstar Productions Communicating Science Inspiring Curiosity and Wonder

January 27th, 2005, 09:59 PM	#4
Ty Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD USA Posts: 2,337	If that works, it would be somewhat of a miracle because the wind captured in each mic would have to be exactly equal and opposite. If the wind were actually ruffling the mic, I doubt that would work. Having said that, I have been able to reduce HVAC noise when using 3-4 lavs by flipping the #2 channel of my Sound Devices mixer to reverse polarity. Regards, Ty Ford __________________ Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide Ty Ford's Audio Video Blog

January 27th, 2005, 10:58 PM	#6
Ty Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD USA Posts: 2,337	You don't get off that easy Greg! :) You have to go out and try it and then report back! :) Ty __________________ Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide Ty Ford's Audio Video Blog

January 28th, 2005, 06:53 AM	#8
Ty Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD USA Posts: 2,337	Me too. I was "in" for 17 years as everything from an announcer, PD, Prod. D, CE and OM. I "graduated" from the Hearst School of Broadcasting (WBAL/WIYY) in 1986. While today's tools are truly remarkable. (Heck, the first DAW I used was an AKG DSE7000 which I bought for $26K in 1991) , I find people today are equally amazed to learn that we cut tape and glued it back together!! I still have two Revox PR99 7.5/15ips decks, a Denon and a Nakamichie cassette deck, btw. Regards, Ty Ford __________________ Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide Ty Ford's Audio Video Blog

January 27th, 2005, 03:07 PM	#2
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	There are several furry screens for lav elements available from various manufacturers. For example, the Micro-Cat: http://www.trewaudio.com/catalog/subcat65.htm What lav element are you using? Omni's are typically less sensitive to wind than cardioid elements. If you have a cardioid element and it's an emergency, you can change it into an omni by carefully applying a small band of gaffers tape around the holes in the body of the mic. Depending on the model, this may adversely affect the sound, but usually it doesn't. What camera are you using? Also, are you employing any low-cut switches?

January 27th, 2005, 03:43 PM	#3
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	Michael, FWIW, I read about a trick on a news photog site that sounds legit though I haven't tried it yet. Take an extra mic, tape it to the tripod leg and let it capture just the wind noise. In post, take the wind noise and invert the signal phase 180 degrees. Then, combine with your original lav mic sound track. This shoud give an 'active noise cancellation' effect. If you get a chance to try this, please post back with the results. regards, =gb=

January 27th, 2005, 10:45 PM	#5
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	Ty, I see what you mean, but I think if you have the same make and model mic as the dialog mike (equal response curves), you should get fairly equal wind noise signatures. As I stated above, the opposite polarity wind noise signal would be created in post production. You might need to adjust the amplitude to get the algebraic cancellation as close as possible. I'm thinking of a situation where the interview is a two shot of reporter and interviewee. The camera tends to be just a few feet away in those situations. Sounds like the same technique you employed in your HVAC example. Again, it was posted by a news photog who claimed it worked for them and I was passing this along as a possible solution. The only way I can really stand behind this statement is to be as far back as I can get if you know what I mean.(grin) regards, =gb=

January 27th, 2005, 11:25 PM	#7
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	Ok Ty, will do. BTW, I just listened to some of your MP3 demos and it made me wax nostalgic for my old days in radio (late 70's). Was gonna be a chief engineer (had my FCC 1st phone) but the semiconductor industry wooed me away with money and a kinder work schedule. But I swear, I do miss the business sometimes. I think of all the commercials and interviews I edited by splicing 1/4 inch tape and I marvel at our wave editors. It almost feels like cheating! Anyway, good stuff and great voice on your site. regards, =gb=

July 10th, 2005, 01:30 AM	#10
Stephanie Wilson Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sherman Oaks CA Posts: 255	I've been micing the subject with the wireless lav and have had a boom operator hold the shotgun. What I usually get is a lot of wind on the lav and the Shotgun is too quiet. Hey Michael, Re: the lav, try placing it on the INSIDE flap of their jacket. Re: the shotgun, you may have the filters set incorrectly. Read your manual my friend. Best of Luck

July 10th, 2005, 10:33 PM	#12
Shawn Redford Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 158	Spot had a really great video on this in this thread titled "Well blow me down!", but for some reason I can't get the video to play now. The bottom line (if I recall correctly) was that Spot stood with his back to the wind and used the AT897 (shotgun) which worked much better than an AT899 (lav). Since his body was blocking the wind, the mic did not get hit with so much wind and the result was a better/cleaner signal. If you're videoing, you would probably need someone to block the wind/hold the mic for those being interviewed, and then setup the camera at an angle (assuming you don't want the newly-recruited-audio-assistant in the shot). The key thing would be to make sure that the wind is blocked first and then the camera is setup afterward. It might work just as well if those being interviewed were blocking the wind. Spot - Is there any way to download the little video that you made? "Well blow me down!" http://www.dmnforums.com/cgi-bin/dis...0809185907.htm