Mic for indigenous music field recording? at DVinfo.net

Joel Iwataki · December 18th, 2004, 08:58 AM

I'm a studio recording engineer and don't have any experience in recording in the field. I went to rural Romania last summer and shot/ recorded some folk music and plan to go back for more. Have TRV900 with Greg Winter mod (great!) and MKH416 on camera and MixPre in belt pouch. I like light weight and small size so I look like a tourist who's something of a tech nerd and it's not too intimidating.

If I do a formal recording session I can use my expertise but for the more guerrilla spontaneous shooting I need help. Cost is not an issue.

I need a wider pickup for closer work. I appreciate Ty's Schoeps cmc641 suggestion. Will this be good for my application? Is there a stereo mic that is any good?

Would a grip mount help or must I get boom? Is there a mic mount that swivels? How do you eliminate mic cable movement noise? (Greg Winter made a camera mount for his MixPre - I suppose that would help but I like weight on my hip and not my arms and the camera still looks small.)

What would be best wind protection?

Thanks.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · December 18th, 2004, 09:30 AM

A grip mount will work fine, if you can hold steady. I've got a tremendous amount of experience in this particular avenue, and trust me, it's not easy at all to use a grip for any length of time.
There are lots of great stereo mics out there, and while folks tend to lean towards the expensive, I was nominated for a Grammy for a project recorded using the AT822. VERY inexpensive mic, comes with a grip (although it's too small for my meaty hands)
An album I recorded is also nominated for a Grammy this year, using the same mic in a couple pieces.
The Shoeps is a great mic, absolutely, but you'll need a pair.
My personal fave that I've also used in a lot of situations is what was the BK 4011, now part of DPA.
http://www.dpamicrophones.com/module...n=pdescription
pricey, but dang hard to beat in terms of quality.
DPA also makes the most effective, and efficient windsock I've ever seen, folds down small.

Joel Iwataki · December 18th, 2004, 09:48 AM

Thanks Douglas. I also love the B&K4011 and I'll check out the AT822.

I forgot that of course you would have lots of experience in this area and I'd love to pick your mind some more. But I have to go to work right now. If you don't mind, I'll have a few other questions for you later.

Thanks for your quick response and this great forum.

Ty Ford · December 18th, 2004, 11:40 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Joel Iwataki : I'm a studio recording engineer and don't have any experience in recording in the field. I went to rural Romania last summer and shot/ recorded some folk music and plan to go back for more. Have TRV900 with Greg Winter mod (great!) and MKH416 on camera and MixPre in belt pouch. I like light weight and small size so I look like a tourist who's something of a tech nerd and it's not too intimidating.

If I do a formal recording session I can use my expertise but for the more guerrilla spontaneous shooting I need help. Cost is not an issue.

I need a wider pickup for closer work. I appreciate Ty's Schoeps cmc641 suggestion. Will this be good for my application? Is there a stereo mic that is any good?

Would a grip mount help or must I get boom? Is there a mic mount that swivels? How do you eliminate mic cable movement noise? (Greg Winter made a camera mount for his MixPre - I suppose that would help but I like weight on my hip and not my arms and the camera still looks small.)

What would be best wind protection?

Thanks. -->>>

Very interesting questions.

Schoeps makes a stereo pair in their collette series that are pretty small and will fit, I think, in a Rycote baby ball gag.

If cost were not object, I'd go for a Neumann RSM 191 on a pistol grip or small boom. Stick the battery-pack in your back pocket. You'll be stunned. Not by the battery pack, by the stereo sound. Wind protection is available.

Rode makes a fixed XY stereo mic, the NT4. A bit thick and the angles are not adjustable, but it does come with a hndy foam pop filter.

You could also try the AT 835ST (stereo/shotgun...not both at the same time) on a handgrip or small boom.

The AT 825 is a slightly different version of the AT822 and it has XLR connectors.

A company somewhere in the NW US makes dime sized mics that you can attach to a pair of eye glasses. Very unobtrusive, not as quiet as some, and if you talk, sneeze, or make other noises....well you just recorded them in stereo!

You could always pin them to the back of your jacket and stroll though the marketplace. If you're holding a camera in your hands, though, you've sort of lost the surreptitious thing.

I have reviewed most of these and those reviews are in my Articles Archive on my site.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Pete Wilie · December 19th, 2004, 09:24 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle :
<snip>
There are lots of great stereo mics out there, and while folks tend to lean towards the expensive, I was nominated for a Grammy for a project recorded using the AT822. VERY inexpensive mic, comes with a grip (although it's too small for my meaty hands)
An album I recorded is also nominated for a Grammy this year, using the same mic in a couple pieces.
</snip> -->>>

Douglas,

Thanks for this info. This may be just the mic I need!
Do you think it would work well as an indoor room ambiance mic?

Also, Ty mentioned the AT825, which is about $100 more. Is it worth it?

I will be feeding the mic output into a BeachTek DXA-4, then into a Canon GL2.

Thanks again.

Pete

Douglas Spotted Eagle · December 19th, 2004, 09:44 PM

The selfnoise of the 800series might be a little high for interior ambiences. I get a good sound out of it for some things indoors, but that's not it's best use, unless you're in a very large room (read gymnasium) or in a very controlled environment. (read-recording studio)
The 825 offers balanced cables vs the unbalanced, so yes, it's worth it if you have longer runs.

Pete Wilie · December 20th, 2004, 10:31 AM

So what would you recommend for interior ambiences?

Jay Massengill · December 20th, 2004, 04:55 PM

A recommendation here is going to be greatly influenced by the availability of phantom power or whether you need a mic that runs on internal battery. The last poster seemed more in the range of battery-powered mics below $400
The Rode NT4 stereo mic that Ty mentioned is probably the quietest battery-powered cardioid (dual cardioid at 90-degree angle, but nobody said you always had to always use both capsules.)
The AT825 stereo with balanced output was also mentioned.
The ATM31a cardioid, which AFAIK uses the same capsule as the stereo AT825, would be a contender, with the same range of noise performance.
The K6/ME64 has a very high peak in the 10k frequency range. It tends to sound rather harsh I think but it can certainly suck in lots of ambient sound with its great sensitivity. If your camera doesn't have a mic ATT position though it can overload.

If you have phantom power, the list gets much longer.

December 18th, 2004, 08:58 AM	#1
Joel Iwataki New Boot Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 13	Mic for indigenous music field recording? I'm a studio recording engineer and don't have any experience in recording in the field. I went to rural Romania last summer and shot/ recorded some folk music and plan to go back for more. Have TRV900 with Greg Winter mod (great!) and MKH416 on camera and MixPre in belt pouch. I like light weight and small size so I look like a tourist who's something of a tech nerd and it's not too intimidating. If I do a formal recording session I can use my expertise but for the more guerrilla spontaneous shooting I need help. Cost is not an issue. I need a wider pickup for closer work. I appreciate Ty's Schoeps cmc641 suggestion. Will this be good for my application? Is there a stereo mic that is any good? Would a grip mount help or must I get boom? Is there a mic mount that swivels? How do you eliminate mic cable movement noise? (Greg Winter made a camera mount for his MixPre - I suppose that would help but I like weight on my hip and not my arms and the camera still looks small.) What would be best wind protection? Thanks.

December 18th, 2004, 09:30 AM	#2
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	A grip mount will work fine, if you can hold steady. I've got a tremendous amount of experience in this particular avenue, and trust me, it's not easy at all to use a grip for any length of time. There are lots of great stereo mics out there, and while folks tend to lean towards the expensive, I was nominated for a Grammy for a project recorded using the AT822. VERY inexpensive mic, comes with a grip (although it's too small for my meaty hands) An album I recorded is also nominated for a Grammy this year, using the same mic in a couple pieces. The Shoeps is a great mic, absolutely, but you'll need a pair. My personal fave that I've also used in a lot of situations is what was the BK 4011, now part of DPA. http://www.dpamicrophones.com/module...n=pdescription pricey, but dang hard to beat in terms of quality. DPA also makes the most effective, and efficient windsock I've ever seen, folds down small. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

December 18th, 2004, 11:40 PM	#4
Ty Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD USA Posts: 2,337	Re: Mic for indigenous music field recording? <<<-- Originally posted by Joel Iwataki : I'm a studio recording engineer and don't have any experience in recording in the field. I went to rural Romania last summer and shot/ recorded some folk music and plan to go back for more. Have TRV900 with Greg Winter mod (great!) and MKH416 on camera and MixPre in belt pouch. I like light weight and small size so I look like a tourist who's something of a tech nerd and it's not too intimidating. If I do a formal recording session I can use my expertise but for the more guerrilla spontaneous shooting I need help. Cost is not an issue. I need a wider pickup for closer work. I appreciate Ty's Schoeps cmc641 suggestion. Will this be good for my application? Is there a stereo mic that is any good? Would a grip mount help or must I get boom? Is there a mic mount that swivels? How do you eliminate mic cable movement noise? (Greg Winter made a camera mount for his MixPre - I suppose that would help but I like weight on my hip and not my arms and the camera still looks small.) What would be best wind protection? Thanks. -->>> Very interesting questions. Schoeps makes a stereo pair in their collette series that are pretty small and will fit, I think, in a Rycote baby ball gag. If cost were not object, I'd go for a Neumann RSM 191 on a pistol grip or small boom. Stick the battery-pack in your back pocket. You'll be stunned. Not by the battery pack, by the stereo sound. Wind protection is available. Rode makes a fixed XY stereo mic, the NT4. A bit thick and the angles are not adjustable, but it does come with a hndy foam pop filter. You could also try the AT 835ST (stereo/shotgun...not both at the same time) on a handgrip or small boom. The AT 825 is a slightly different version of the AT822 and it has XLR connectors. A company somewhere in the NW US makes dime sized mics that you can attach to a pair of eye glasses. Very unobtrusive, not as quiet as some, and if you talk, sneeze, or make other noises....well you just recorded them in stereo! You could always pin them to the back of your jacket and stroll though the marketplace. If you're holding a camera in your hands, though, you've sort of lost the surreptitious thing. I have reviewed most of these and those reviews are in my Articles Archive on my site. Regards, Ty Ford __________________ Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide Ty Ford's Audio Video Blog

December 19th, 2004, 09:44 PM	#6
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	The selfnoise of the 800series might be a little high for interior ambiences. I get a good sound out of it for some things indoors, but that's not it's best use, unless you're in a very large room (read gymnasium) or in a very controlled environment. (read-recording studio) The 825 offers balanced cables vs the unbalanced, so yes, it's worth it if you have longer runs. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

December 18th, 2004, 09:48 AM	#3
Joel Iwataki New Boot Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 13	Thanks Douglas. I also love the B&K4011 and I'll check out the AT822. I forgot that of course you would have lots of experience in this area and I'd love to pick your mind some more. But I have to go to work right now. If you don't mind, I'll have a few other questions for you later. Thanks for your quick response and this great forum.

December 19th, 2004, 09:24 PM	#5
Pete Wilie Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 331	<<<-- Originally posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle : <snip> There are lots of great stereo mics out there, and while folks tend to lean towards the expensive, I was nominated for a Grammy for a project recorded using the AT822. VERY inexpensive mic, comes with a grip (although it's too small for my meaty hands) An album I recorded is also nominated for a Grammy this year, using the same mic in a couple pieces. </snip> -->>> Douglas, Thanks for this info. This may be just the mic I need! Do you think it would work well as an indoor room ambiance mic? Also, Ty mentioned the AT825, which is about $100 more. Is it worth it? I will be feeding the mic output into a BeachTek DXA-4, then into a Canon GL2. Thanks again. Pete

December 20th, 2004, 10:31 AM	#7
Pete Wilie Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 331	So what would you recommend for interior ambiences?

December 20th, 2004, 04:55 PM	#8
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	A recommendation here is going to be greatly influenced by the availability of phantom power or whether you need a mic that runs on internal battery. The last poster seemed more in the range of battery-powered mics below $400 The Rode NT4 stereo mic that Ty mentioned is probably the quietest battery-powered cardioid (dual cardioid at 90-degree angle, but nobody said you always had to always use both capsules.) The AT825 stereo with balanced output was also mentioned. The ATM31a cardioid, which AFAIK uses the same capsule as the stereo AT825, would be a contender, with the same range of noise performance. The K6/ME64 has a very high peak in the 10k frequency range. It tends to sound rather harsh I think but it can certainly suck in lots of ambient sound with its great sensitivity. If your camera doesn't have a mic ATT position though it can overload. If you have phantom power, the list gets much longer.