Re: Mic For Picking Up Cheering at DVinfo.net

Rob Kroeger · December 9th, 2004, 11:18 AM

Hey Again. Well, football season is over, and basketball season is starting. Ive got about $100+ for a mic (planning to buy one on eBay) I'll be inside a basketball court, and Im really leaning tward the Azden SGM-1X. Heres my scenario:

Ive got a GL1 with a Beachtek DXA-4P. I put on an XLR Y-Splitter \ Combiner. I'll be putting the 2 commentator mics on the Splitter and then using the other XLR Port for a mic. I need a mic to pick up cheers, crowd excitement, etc. However, I go to Dallas, TX every year to shoot the CPL Cyber-Athlete Games, as well as many other venues where a shotgun mic would be perfect for these applications.

Tell me honestly, will the SGM-1X do at least a half decent job at getting cheers and noises. Im shooting it for community TV, so the audio quality will be lessened to start with. The way it is now, you can not hear anything from the fans, which makes it a very boring shoot.

Lots of people watch the games I shoot, we've got great former college-football & basketball commentators, and a need for a great mic that will pick up on fan cheers. As you all may know, what you shoot is a reflection of you. If you do a half-bag job, It'll show. Thanks everyone for your help.

Ty Ford · December 9th, 2004, 02:44 PM

I'd probably reach for a Sanken CS-3

Regards,

Ty Ford

Rob Kroeger · December 9th, 2004, 05:50 PM

I see. Thinking twice....I realise I do not need a shotgun. Let me rephrase.

I need a mic that would pick up noise that the on-board camera mic normally would, but that is better sounding. (Im guessing I definitely need a Omni-Directional) Any ideas?

Bruce S. Yarock · December 9th, 2004, 10:44 PM

I used an audio technika 897 shotgun on my gl1, with good results. I ran it through one channel of the beachtek, and used the sennheaise g2 wireless on the other channel.Now I'm using it mounted om my xl2.
Bruce yarock

Oleg Kaizerman · December 9th, 2004, 11:33 PM

the russion octava with cardioid or hiper cardioid capsul would be perfect- but then you need ph power .
there are no so many good mikes which run on internal batteries .
tyou have the sennheuser k6 model with cardioid head 65-
or look for old senheise ku-3 or 2 on ebay with me 64 or me 80
working on 6 v battery .
very good option is the schoeps self powered mike -but it a llitlbit more expencive then your camera:-)
another option is sony 672 short shotgun which run on 1,5 v ( rearly on ebay - but exellent for your perpes

Jay Massengill · December 10th, 2004, 08:56 AM

Some other choices:
Audio Technica ATM10a omni, or ATM31a cardioid. They are currently $100 to $110 for the omni and about $130 for the cardioid. They can run on either AA battery or phantom.

Rob Kroeger · December 12th, 2004, 12:14 AM

I see, Thanks a ton guys. Not many of those options are on eBay but I will keep checking. Again, Thanks alot! Now do I mount these to a fishpole with a shockmount? Is there a way to do this? Theres some applications where a boom pole would not only look good < ;) >but also be very functional as well.

Dave Largent · May 4th, 2005, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Massengill

Some other choices:
Audio Technica ATM10a omni, or ATM31a cardioid. They are currently $100 to $110 for the omni and about $130 for the cardioid. They can run on either AA battery or phantom.

Was wondering if the ATM10a can be used handheld?

Ty Ford · May 4th, 2005, 06:36 AM

ElectroVoice 635a L

Dynamic, omni, long handle.

Ty Ford

Dave Largent · May 4th, 2005, 06:59 AM

Thanks, Ty

Don't necessarily need handheld but
was curious seeing as some seem
to sell it as a handheld mic.

Was looking at a similar AT mic, the
AT3032 omni, with 132 dB dynamic range. The
ATM10a is listed at 113 dB dynamic range.
Is this a significant difference that you
you could hear the difference when
recording music?
Have you heard anyone mention using
the 3032?

Ty Ford · May 4th, 2005, 07:13 AM

Any mic you can hold in your hand is a hand held. Any mic you can mount on a camera is a camera mount.

You wanted an omni. It's an omni. :)

Ty

Jay Massengill · May 4th, 2005, 07:26 AM

You could use the ATM10a as a handheld omni, however it has distinctly different characteristics versus the classic handheld dynamic omni like an EV635L. The AT will be much more sensitive, although handling noise is still pretty low, and it will have a much wider, flatter frequency response. It will also be more sensitive to wind noise, although again not as sensitive as some other condenser mics. You'd need to have either phantom power or a fresh AA battery.
The dynamic needs nothing but a properly wired cable, but won't have sufficient sensitivity or high frequency response for some tasks. It's designed for those times when low sensitivity and a vocal frequency response in a rugged, low-noise mic is exactly what you want.
The AT3031 cardioid and AT3032 omni are several jumps in sound quality over the ATM31a and ATM10a, despite the fact that the 30-series costs only a little more money. For most musical applications the 30-series would be noticeably better than the ATM line when comparing the two directly. They do require phantom power though and aren't designed to be used hand-held.
The ATM's are very good mics, the only thing comparable in price that can run on a battery and give better quality is the Rode NT3 hypercardioid.

Glenn Chan · May 4th, 2005, 06:26 PM

Maybe the Rode Videomic would work for you?

Hotshoe mount, integrated shockmount, foam windshield
9V battery

I have never heard it myself, although the Rode name might indicate a decent sounding mic. DSE/spot has a review of it over at VAAST.

Jay Massengill · May 4th, 2005, 09:00 PM

Dave, what camera will you be using?

Dave Largent · May 5th, 2005, 03:45 AM

I noticed that, that the AT3032 is only a little
bit more than ATM10a.
I use a Sony PD and I have one channel open
to get some better ambient, so stereo isn't an
option.
I originally was planning on getting the ME62
capsule (already have the K6 powering
unit) but then I read where (I think it was
SPOT) said that he really wasn't that impressed
with the lower priced Sennheisers, and then
there was mention of the ATM10a. I could
get a whole nother mic (AT3032) for what it
costs just for the ME62 capsule. (I've never
heard the ME62.)
I do like that the ATM can be battery-operated
which could come in handy, but when I think
of the ATM having a lot less sensitivity, more self
noise, and much less SPL ...
I think the next step up in the AT line as far
as omnis (4049) is a pretty big step in price ($500).
So you think there'd be a difference in sound
quality that I could really hear, 3032 as compared to
ATM? Have you ever heard the ME62?

December 9th, 2004, 11:18 AM	#1
Rob Kroeger Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Saratoga Springs, Ut Posts: 31	Re: Mic For Picking Up Cheering Hey Again. Well, football season is over, and basketball season is starting. Ive got about $100+ for a mic (planning to buy one on eBay) I'll be inside a basketball court, and Im really leaning tward the Azden SGM-1X. Heres my scenario: Ive got a GL1 with a Beachtek DXA-4P. I put on an XLR Y-Splitter \ Combiner. I'll be putting the 2 commentator mics on the Splitter and then using the other XLR Port for a mic. I need a mic to pick up cheers, crowd excitement, etc. However, I go to Dallas, TX every year to shoot the CPL Cyber-Athlete Games, as well as many other venues where a shotgun mic would be perfect for these applications. Tell me honestly, will the SGM-1X do at least a half decent job at getting cheers and noises. Im shooting it for community TV, so the audio quality will be lessened to start with. The way it is now, you can not hear anything from the fans, which makes it a very boring shoot. Lots of people watch the games I shoot, we've got great former college-football & basketball commentators, and a need for a great mic that will pick up on fan cheers. As you all may know, what you shoot is a reflection of you. If you do a half-bag job, It'll show. Thanks everyone for your help.

December 9th, 2004, 02:44 PM	#2
Ty Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD USA Posts: 2,337	I'd probably reach for a Sanken CS-3 Regards, Ty Ford __________________ Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide Ty Ford's Audio Video Blog

May 4th, 2005, 06:36 AM	#9
Ty Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD USA Posts: 2,337	ElectroVoice 635a L Dynamic, omni, long handle. Ty Ford __________________ Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide Ty Ford's Audio Video Blog

May 4th, 2005, 07:13 AM	#11
Ty Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD USA Posts: 2,337	Any mic you can hold in your hand is a hand held. Any mic you can mount on a camera is a camera mount. You wanted an omni. It's an omni. :) Ty __________________ Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide Ty Ford's Audio Video Blog

December 9th, 2004, 05:50 PM	#3
Rob Kroeger Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Saratoga Springs, Ut Posts: 31	I see. Thinking twice....I realise I do not need a shotgun. Let me rephrase. I need a mic that would pick up noise that the on-board camera mic normally would, but that is better sounding. (Im guessing I definitely need a Omni-Directional) Any ideas?

December 9th, 2004, 10:44 PM	#4
Bruce S. Yarock Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl. Posts: 1,842	I used an audio technika 897 shotgun on my gl1, with good results. I ran it through one channel of the beachtek, and used the sennheaise g2 wireless on the other channel.Now I'm using it mounted om my xl2. Bruce yarock

December 9th, 2004, 11:33 PM	#5
Oleg Kaizerman Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: israel Posts: 296	the russion octava with cardioid or hiper cardioid capsul would be perfect- but then you need ph power . there are no so many good mikes which run on internal batteries . tyou have the sennheuser k6 model with cardioid head 65- or look for old senheise ku-3 or 2 on ebay with me 64 or me 80 working on 6 v battery . very good option is the schoeps self powered mike -but it a llitlbit more expencive then your camera:-) another option is sony 672 short shotgun which run on 1,5 v ( rearly on ebay - but exellent for your perpes

December 10th, 2004, 08:56 AM	#6
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	Some other choices: Audio Technica ATM10a omni, or ATM31a cardioid. They are currently $100 to $110 for the omni and about $130 for the cardioid. They can run on either AA battery or phantom.

December 12th, 2004, 12:14 AM	#7
Rob Kroeger Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Saratoga Springs, Ut Posts: 31	I see, Thanks a ton guys. Not many of those options are on eBay but I will keep checking. Again, Thanks alot! Now do I mount these to a fishpole with a shockmount? Is there a way to do this? Theres some applications where a boom pole would not only look good < ;) >but also be very functional as well.

May 4th, 2005, 06:59 AM	#10
Dave Largent Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,483	Thanks, Ty Don't necessarily need handheld but was curious seeing as some seem to sell it as a handheld mic. Was looking at a similar AT mic, the AT3032 omni, with 132 dB dynamic range. The ATM10a is listed at 113 dB dynamic range. Is this a significant difference that you you could hear the difference when recording music? Have you heard anyone mention using the 3032?

May 4th, 2005, 07:26 AM	#12
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	You could use the ATM10a as a handheld omni, however it has distinctly different characteristics versus the classic handheld dynamic omni like an EV635L. The AT will be much more sensitive, although handling noise is still pretty low, and it will have a much wider, flatter frequency response. It will also be more sensitive to wind noise, although again not as sensitive as some other condenser mics. You'd need to have either phantom power or a fresh AA battery. The dynamic needs nothing but a properly wired cable, but won't have sufficient sensitivity or high frequency response for some tasks. It's designed for those times when low sensitivity and a vocal frequency response in a rugged, low-noise mic is exactly what you want. The AT3031 cardioid and AT3032 omni are several jumps in sound quality over the ATM31a and ATM10a, despite the fact that the 30-series costs only a little more money. For most musical applications the 30-series would be noticeably better than the ATM line when comparing the two directly. They do require phantom power though and aren't designed to be used hand-held. The ATM's are very good mics, the only thing comparable in price that can run on a battery and give better quality is the Rode NT3 hypercardioid.

May 4th, 2005, 06:26 PM	#13
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	Maybe the Rode Videomic would work for you? Hotshoe mount, integrated shockmount, foam windshield 9V battery I have never heard it myself, although the Rode name might indicate a decent sounding mic. DSE/spot has a review of it over at VAAST.

May 4th, 2005, 09:00 PM	#14
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	Dave, what camera will you be using?

May 5th, 2005, 03:45 AM	#15
Dave Largent Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,483	I noticed that, that the AT3032 is only a little bit more than ATM10a. I use a Sony PD and I have one channel open to get some better ambient, so stereo isn't an option. I originally was planning on getting the ME62 capsule (already have the K6 powering unit) but then I read where (I think it was SPOT) said that he really wasn't that impressed with the lower priced Sennheisers, and then there was mention of the ATM10a. I could get a whole nother mic (AT3032) for what it costs just for the ME62 capsule. (I've never heard the ME62.) I do like that the ATM can be battery-operated which could come in handy, but when I think of the ATM having a lot less sensitivity, more self noise, and much less SPL ... I think the next step up in the AT line as far as omnis (4049) is a pretty big step in price ($500). So you think there'd be a difference in sound quality that I could really hear, 3032 as compared to ATM? Have you ever heard the ME62?