Azden ECZ-990 Shotgun Help

[Todd Kivimaki]

I have a Azden ECZ-990 shotgun mic, and just can't get good sound, not good meaning it isn't loud at all, I have a fresh battery in and have tried it on long and short settingg. I'm going through a xlr adapter, and using a senn ew100 wireless kit, get great sound from that just not from the shotgun. Am I doing something wrong? I shoud at least get as good of sound from the Azden as I do with my GL2 on mic, right? And it isn't possible to use the GL2 mic with the xlr adapter.
Thanks for the help.

[David Ennis]

Is your adaptor the MA300? Several people have posted here and elsewhere that they get a weaker signal from their Azden (SGM series) mics through the MA300 adaptor than when plugged directly into the GL2's mic jack.

[Todd Kivimaki]

No it's a sign video xlr pro, and it even seems low (worse then the on mic gl2) when plugged directly into the GL2. I need another mic, but don't have a lot of money to spend, is the external shotgun canon makes any good? Would you suggest anything else?

[David Ennis]

Do you have MIC ATT turned off? It makes a huge difference.

[Todd Kivimaki]

Yea it is turned off, I just don't think that the mic is that good, I got it in a package when I ordered my camera, and am probably going to have to get something else. I tried the setup tonight at a wedding, only during the vows, because I had wireless on the groom, and haven't had time to check how good the azden did, but from the bars on the camera it didn't look like it was that loud.

[Jay Massengill]

How far away were you? That will make a big difference with any mic.
Since you don't have phantom power, and you want to mount it on-camera, then that limits your choices of available upgrades.
The lowest cost shotgun-style mics would be one of the better Azden's, but I don't recommend that unless you absolutely don't have the money to get something more durable. In addition, the newest Azden is actually higher in price than some better made mics.
Next up in price ($130) in non-shotgun mics would be the ATM31a, which could also double as an interview mic if you ever do that with guests. This mic would also pick up more handling noise at the camera unless you're using a bracket, which I highly recommend, to support the camera and put the mic further away. But in some indoor situations this mic's more open pattern can be beneficial. It all depends on how you work.
My recommendation for a shotgun would be the AT897 at about $280.
But again, any mic that's mounted on the camera is at a handicap because it is often too far away from the subject.

[Todd Kivimaki]

Thanks for the great info, I don't have a great understanding of the different mics, and settings, I have just one more quick question, if you don't mind. How does the mic on the GL2 work so well, last night at the wedding I was probably 40 feet away, the church had a good sound system, inside premiere the audio mixer showed that the Azden picked up about -30 to -25, and the Gl2 mic picked up much higher about -12 to -8, this was the same sound, it was during the same song. I just need a mic as good as the gl2 that I can hook into my xlr adapter, I don't really have the $200 to buy another mic, as I just spent all my money on the wireless and xlr adapter, thinking I would get just as good results out of the azden. And now I can't use the wireless because I want the ambient sound from the organ, singing, etc.
Thanks for your help

[David Ennis]

The wireless serves the purpose of getting very close to a key sound source, presumably the individuals at the altar or pulpit.

The second mic you need is for capturing the ambient room sound. A shotgun is generally the wrong choice for that purpose. And on top of that your Azden model seems like a particular poor, or at least a very insensitive mic. With a little luck and skill you might be able to get away with using a good shotgun.

Despite the disparaging comments that are often made about built in mics, The GL2's on board mic does a pretty good job of capturing music and ambience in a room served by a sound system. The main weakness of on board mics even if they are sensitive and reasonably accurate, is the distance from the subject at which you shoot. But this does not come into play if you're trying to capture sound that fills a room.

One possible option--you say the church had a good sound system. A sound system often implies an audio mixer in the chain, and if there is an audio mixer there is a cheap and easy obtained input for your XLR adaptor.

[Todd Kivimaki]

So if the Church has a sound mixer, then I can plug directly into the mixer? How would I do this if I'm in the front and the mixer is in the back?

And what about if the church has no mixer? So there's no external mic I can buy that preforms just as good as the GL2, for reasonably cheap? I read that the canon dm-50 is good, but it goes through the hot shoe, and this wouldn't do me any good, because I need to go through the XLR adapter, correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks

[David Ennis]

Your question about the distance between the mixer and the camera position goes to the reason for the existence of XLR. You might want to check out my XLR FAQ in the "Sound and Lighting" board at camcorderinfo.com.

But the the answer is that you buy XLR cable for about 50 cents per foot, and run it from the mixer to your XLR adaptor. You will also need a short adaptor cable (about $7) to convert from the 1/4" balanced mono ouput jack at the mixer to XLR, and an in-line attenuator like the AT8202 ($44). If you can set the fader (a slider control) for the mono out at -10dB then you can forego the attenuator. -10dB is what your XLR adaptor expects when the switch is set to "line." If the mono out jack is in use, you usually have other options but you would need other adaptors and you or someone at the church has to know a little bit about mixers.

If there is no mixer but there are loudspeakers, there at least has to be an amplifier, and an amplifier most often has a -10 dB "line out" jack that you could use.

If there is no sound system, then my guess is that you can get an omnidirectional XLR mic as good as the GL2's for $50 or so and put it on a $20 stand with an XLR cable run between you and it. To get recommendations for such a mic, start a new thread.

There's no escaping it--if you want to get decent audio in a variety of venues, you have invest some money and learn some stuff.

All the items I mentioned are available at B&H (bhphotovideo.com). You are correct about the DM-50.

[Bryan Beasleigh]

<<<-- Originally posted by Fred Retread :
If there is no sound system, then my guess is that you can get an omnidirectional XLR mic as good as the GL2's for $50 or so and put it on a $20 stand with an XLR cable run between you and it. To get recommendations for such a mic, start a new thread.

There's no escaping it--if you want to get decent audio in a variety of venues, you have invest some money and learn some stuff.. -->>>

Realistically, I don't know where you'd get a decent mic with XLR output for $50. I think it would be a good idea to start a separate thread but also to search and read some past threads.

I think you'd be better off looking at directional mics. usually a hypercardoid is best for indoor use. for a wider field try the cardoid.

I just posted links to Jay Roses article on mic patterns. You'd be better off staying with boards like dvinfo, 2pop or dv.com.
Jay's article on mic pattern recognition

Links to audio info, reviews and other neat info

Listen to some sample clips of the various patterns. the samples have been recorded while rotating the mic so you can have an idea how the various patterns behave. Mic Clips

[David Ennis]

I posed it as a guess because I wasn't sure, but I still think I've seen a few mics mentioned from time to time, omni or cardiod for well less than $100. The benchmark is only to equal the performance of the cam's on board mic.