grabbing the best sound live music in nightclub venue at DVinfo.net

Ken Beals · November 11th, 2004, 03:48 AM

Video recording in night clubs is new territory for me.

Here's the available resources. Sony PD170 with stock mic.One Shotgun mic (not sure the brand, borrowed eqptmnt) on boom stand plugged into channel 2 of the PD170.

One Sony PD150 with stock mic. and a line into channel two from the house board .

The venues are medium sized night clubs with OK acoustics.

With the available resources what might be the best way to get acceptable audio when comes time to marry up the audio and video in post production.

Side Note: the main purpose is to be used in the bands promo kit when seeking gigs. Interestingly enough potential "booking managers" aren't necessarily looking for studio polished promo samples. None the less I would still like to give them the best possible audio.

Secondly, if $1000 is available what might be some audio equipment you would recommend to enhance the current resources and take it to the next step?

thanks in advance to all you feedback.

Ken

Jay Massengill · November 11th, 2004, 06:55 PM

I would suggest either a small-diaphram condenser that is rated for very high SPL levels, and use the Mic ATT switch on the camera or the pad switch on the mic.
Or, use a moderate sensitivity dynamic mic that has a wider, flatter frequency response than the typical low-end vocal mic.
The shotgun indoors under loud conditions is probably going to give some very weird responses. The same is true of some stereo mics because they have such a wide total reception angle.
You can try two matched mics like I described above, but set to a more narrow angle to each other, like 35 degrees.
Have you tried this yet with what you have? I'd do that first before I spent any money. If the house has good acoustics and as you say, your potential clients aren't that interested in studio-like quality, I'd try what you have first.
If you do decide to buy, some possible dynamic candidates are the Shure Beta57a, EV ND468, Sennheiser 421II.
A good inexpensive condenser mic with a high SPL tolerance is the AT3031. You might also want to add a good small mixer with high headroom, good metering and a better headphone amp like a Mackie 1202-VLZ. You can monitor the output of the camera at the mixer.

Ivan Bernstein · November 17th, 2004, 11:51 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Ken Beals : If $1000 is available what might be some audio equipment you would recommend to enhance the current resources and take it to the next step? -->>>

If you want to keep it really simple, go with the main mix from the front of house console, and throw up a condenser or two to pick up crowd reactions.

Perhaps something like the AKG C1000S will met your needs. Check out places like MusiciansFriend.com, where you can buy them individually or in a pair. They'll run about $200 a piece or $300 for a pair. You'll need to either phantom-power them, or pop in a 9-volt, which makes them a little more versatile in the field. Spend $20 per mic and pick up a basic boom stand. If you're looking to pick up a small mixing console as well, look at the Mackie DFX6 or DFX12 if you care about having faders to work with, or the 1202-VLZ Pro if you don't.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · November 18th, 2004, 12:02 AM

Having done an awful lot of this, I'd follow Ivan's house mix suggestion. Record to a digital source, virtually any digital source be it a laptop, MD, HDMD, DAT, lines in to a camcorder...and marry in post. Record at 16 bit/48K for easiest results, and make sure you have time to check levels on the recorder before the gig.
This way, you have no worries during the gig related to sound. Just catch the audiences with your cam mics, or use a good stereo mic in the crowd that's connected to the cam such as the AT 822, and rock on.
In post, marry them up, mix in the crowd sound, and voila! You've got instant MTV.

Ken Beals · November 18th, 2004, 02:16 AM

Thanks for all the great suggestions.

Oh by the way, Douglas , I noticed you have a training book available titled "Digital Video Basics" I am considering buying, like soon.

Although am not new to camera operating I unashamedly confess that I'm still novice to the factors that makes for great video ie. lighting, audio etc. and I am hoping the book will help take some of the "mystery" out of those elements.

Always striving to get better. It's kind of like having a wonderful symphony in my mind yet my fingers can only pluck out basic chords.

Oh but just wait till that symphony finally emerges yee haw !!!

again thanks

-kb

November 11th, 2004, 03:48 AM	#1
Ken Beals Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Tempe, Az Posts: 172	grabbing the best sound live music in nightclub venue Video recording in night clubs is new territory for me. Here's the available resources. Sony PD170 with stock mic.One Shotgun mic (not sure the brand, borrowed eqptmnt) on boom stand plugged into channel 2 of the PD170. One Sony PD150 with stock mic. and a line into channel two from the house board . The venues are medium sized night clubs with OK acoustics. With the available resources what might be the best way to get acceptable audio when comes time to marry up the audio and video in post production. Side Note: the main purpose is to be used in the bands promo kit when seeking gigs. Interestingly enough potential "booking managers" aren't necessarily looking for studio polished promo samples. None the less I would still like to give them the best possible audio. Secondly, if $1000 is available what might be some audio equipment you would recommend to enhance the current resources and take it to the next step? thanks in advance to all you feedback. Ken

November 17th, 2004, 11:51 PM	#3
Ivan Bernstein New Boot Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Palos Hills, Illinois Posts: 6	Re: grabbing the best sound live music in nightclub venue <<<-- Originally posted by Ken Beals : If $1000 is available what might be some audio equipment you would recommend to enhance the current resources and take it to the next step? -->>> If you want to keep it really simple, go with the main mix from the front of house console, and throw up a condenser or two to pick up crowd reactions. Perhaps something like the AKG C1000S will met your needs. Check out places like MusiciansFriend.com, where you can buy them individually or in a pair. They'll run about $200 a piece or $300 for a pair. You'll need to either phantom-power them, or pop in a 9-volt, which makes them a little more versatile in the field. Spend $20 per mic and pick up a basic boom stand. If you're looking to pick up a small mixing console as well, look at the Mackie DFX6 or DFX12 if you care about having faders to work with, or the 1202-VLZ Pro if you don't.

November 18th, 2004, 12:02 AM	#4
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Having done an awful lot of this, I'd follow Ivan's house mix suggestion. Record to a digital source, virtually any digital source be it a laptop, MD, HDMD, DAT, lines in to a camcorder...and marry in post. Record at 16 bit/48K for easiest results, and make sure you have time to check levels on the recorder before the gig. This way, you have no worries during the gig related to sound. Just catch the audiences with your cam mics, or use a good stereo mic in the crowd that's connected to the cam such as the AT 822, and rock on. In post, marry them up, mix in the crowd sound, and voila! You've got instant MTV. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

November 11th, 2004, 06:55 PM	#2
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	I would suggest either a small-diaphram condenser that is rated for very high SPL levels, and use the Mic ATT switch on the camera or the pad switch on the mic. Or, use a moderate sensitivity dynamic mic that has a wider, flatter frequency response than the typical low-end vocal mic. The shotgun indoors under loud conditions is probably going to give some very weird responses. The same is true of some stereo mics because they have such a wide total reception angle. You can try two matched mics like I described above, but set to a more narrow angle to each other, like 35 degrees. Have you tried this yet with what you have? I'd do that first before I spent any money. If the house has good acoustics and as you say, your potential clients aren't that interested in studio-like quality, I'd try what you have first. If you do decide to buy, some possible dynamic candidates are the Shure Beta57a, EV ND468, Sennheiser 421II. A good inexpensive condenser mic with a high SPL tolerance is the AT3031. You might also want to add a good small mixer with high headroom, good metering and a better headphone amp like a Mackie 1202-VLZ. You can monitor the output of the camera at the mixer.

November 18th, 2004, 02:16 AM	#5
Ken Beals Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Tempe, Az Posts: 172	Thanks for all the great suggestions. Oh by the way, Douglas , I noticed you have a training book available titled "Digital Video Basics" I am considering buying, like soon. Although am not new to camera operating I unashamedly confess that I'm still novice to the factors that makes for great video ie. lighting, audio etc. and I am hoping the book will help take some of the "mystery" out of those elements. Always striving to get better. It's kind of like having a wonderful symphony in my mind yet my fingers can only pluck out basic chords. Oh but just wait till that symphony finally emerges yee haw !!! again thanks -kb