Best Mic for a concert at DVinfo.net

James Lilly · October 28th, 2004, 12:50 PM

What would you consider to be the best reasonably priced mic (under 500, hopefully a lot under) to record a concert on with the mic placed about 5 to 10 feet in front of the stage? Also to record a conversation between numerous people in a room?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

James

Bill Ravens · October 28th, 2004, 01:52 PM

I can't say enough for the sennheiser ME66 shotgun mike. I use this for music videos, constantly. It never fails to give me excellent sound.

James Lilly · October 28th, 2004, 02:09 PM

I'm using an AT 4073a now, but it seems too directional an misses out on some of the instruments. Does the Sennheiser not have that problem. I've heard that is not a true Shotgun mic per say, so it might have a big advantage over the 4073a. Hmm. There about 400 from B&H?

Bill Ravens · October 28th, 2004, 02:21 PM

The pattern seems more cardoid than ultra directional. I think I bought mine for less at ZZOUNDS.COM

James Lilly · October 28th, 2004, 02:25 PM

Thanks a lot fellow Santa Fean. I think I'll order from them.

Bill Ravens · October 28th, 2004, 02:45 PM

you from Oz?
I recorded most of the Plaza summer series music with that senn. Came out beautifully.

Jay Massengill · October 28th, 2004, 02:48 PM

The pattern of an ME66 and its off-axis coloration will still be problematic in recording a concert. I would vote for one or two AT3031 cardioids ($150 to $170 each depending on vendor).
You can use these mics singly, in a stereo pair or separately for covering two areas. This mic has very low self-noise for its price as well as low off-axis coloration, a flat well-balanced frequency response, good sensitivity and a very high max SPL.
There are other choices available, but none that I could mention have substantial advantage over the 3031 and they cost more.

Glenn Chan · October 28th, 2004, 02:53 PM

Shotgun mics sound crappy indoors. They have really uneven frequency response for sounds not hitting it from the front. Indoors, you have all sorts of echoes hitting the mic from all sides. It makes things sound weird/hollow/artificial.

In my experience , 2 Shure SM58s beat out 2 shotguns (Apex, AT835bs) be a huge margin when recording a music recital in an auditorium (lots of reverb). The bands sound way out of tune (they aren't) and certain notes drop off in volume when recording with the shotguns. The Shure SM58s sound much better in comparison. And you aren't even supposed to use those for recording music (they are cardioid dynamic vocal mics). I would try a hypercardioid mic like the Oktava MC012 with hypercardioid capsule (need a mixer for phantom power and preamps). The Sony MS907/908 can be good enough if you want to save money.

*Noticed something: The AT 4073a (which you already have) is a hypercardioid mic so there's not too much point in getting another hypercardioid mic. You could get the Oktava mic above with cardioid capsule and buy the hyper capsule and experiment with it. You can also hotrod it for better sound.

Bryan Beasleigh · October 28th, 2004, 03:08 PM

I think you'll be dissapointed in the ME66 it's considered a super cardoid and has an angle of acceptance at full signal of about 60 deg. even less at the higher frequencies.Click here

I think a cardoid may be better at that close range. Good cardoids can range from the Oktava MCO-12, ME64, AKG CK91 ( AKG site info for CK91 or the Audio Technica 4051a modular cardoid or the lower priced but very good AT3031 cardoid
The 4051 is $400 and the 3031 is $180 at B&H

You know the sound of the AT and appear to be content. It's only my opinion but I think any AT blows the lower priced sennheisers away(ME series). The AKG Blue Line would also be a better choice

You could get a Rode NT4 fixed stereo or a match pair NT5 for around $400. You could use the NT5 separately or in a stereo configuration. Rode Mic

All mics are available through B&H and usually at the best price or close to it. B&H is a store that you can talk to and if you have a problem it will be addressed.

If you want to listen to the mics I have the Sennheiser, Oktava, and AKG mics covered in the sound clip files. Use a decent set of headphones. Click here

Spend some time and visit all of these sites.
whew! that was a long one.

So far as the hot rodding the Oktava, very few have actually bothered and it can be dicey if you don't have the equipment or experience. You also need the diagrams.

The 4073 is a short shotgun and not a really considered a hypercardoid. The interference tube has additional effects on the overall sound and indoor useability.Read Jay Rose's article on mic patterns to get a better understanding. The mic patterns he uses are AKG blue line.

The Schoeps site has an excellent white paper on mic patterns as well.

James Lilly · October 28th, 2004, 04:22 PM

That is very informative, thank you. If you were to pick between a AT3031 and a Shure SM58, which one would you go for? I'm thinking the AT3031 because it looks easier to attach to a boom or camera at some point, although I don't know if I'd ever want to do that, I just like options. I'll be listening to the sound samples tonight, thank you.

As for Oz, yes, I followed the yellow road here. Very cool you shot the summer series. Did you get a contract with the city?

Glenn Chan · October 28th, 2004, 04:26 PM

1- Listen to what Beaser said, it's more accurate than what I wrote. (i.e. for some reason I thought the 4073a was a hypercardioid. AT website shows it's a shotgun http://www.audio-technica.com/prodpro/profiles/AT4073a.html).

2- That is very informative, thank you. If you were to pick between a AT3031 and a Shure SM58, which one would you go for? I'm thinking the AT3031 because it looks easier to attach to a boom or camera at some point, although I don't know if I'd ever want to do that, I just like options. I'll be listening to the sound samples tonight, thank you.

The AT3031 hands down (or any of the other mics Beaser mentioned). The Shure SM58 isn't the right kind of mic for this application. I used 2 Shure Sm58s because I was pulling off a shoestring budget production and they were free to borrow.

October 28th, 2004, 12:50 PM	#1
James Lilly Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 66	Best Mic for a concert What would you consider to be the best reasonably priced mic (under 500, hopefully a lot under) to record a concert on with the mic placed about 5 to 10 feet in front of the stage? Also to record a conversation between numerous people in a room? Any help is greatly appreciated. James

October 28th, 2004, 03:08 PM	#9
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	I think you'll be dissapointed in the ME66 it's considered a super cardoid and has an angle of acceptance at full signal of about 60 deg. even less at the higher frequencies.Click here I think a cardoid may be better at that close range. Good cardoids can range from the Oktava MCO-12, ME64, AKG CK91 ( AKG site info for CK91 or the Audio Technica 4051a modular cardoid or the lower priced but very good AT3031 cardoid The 4051 is $400 and the 3031 is $180 at B&H You know the sound of the AT and appear to be content. It's only my opinion but I think any AT blows the lower priced sennheisers away(ME series). The AKG Blue Line would also be a better choice You could get a Rode NT4 fixed stereo or a match pair NT5 for around $400. You could use the NT5 separately or in a stereo configuration. Rode Mic All mics are available through B&H and usually at the best price or close to it. B&H is a store that you can talk to and if you have a problem it will be addressed. If you want to listen to the mics I have the Sennheiser, Oktava, and AKG mics covered in the sound clip files. Use a decent set of headphones. Click here Spend some time and visit all of these sites. whew! that was a long one. So far as the hot rodding the Oktava, very few have actually bothered and it can be dicey if you don't have the equipment or experience. You also need the diagrams. The 4073 is a short shotgun and not a really considered a hypercardoid. The interference tube has additional effects on the overall sound and indoor useability.Read Jay Rose's article on mic patterns to get a better understanding. The mic patterns he uses are AKG blue line. The Schoeps site has an excellent white paper on mic patterns as well. __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ".......holy smokin rubber lips...what a ride!"

October 28th, 2004, 01:52 PM	#2
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	I can't say enough for the sennheiser ME66 shotgun mike. I use this for music videos, constantly. It never fails to give me excellent sound.

October 28th, 2004, 02:09 PM	#3
James Lilly Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 66	I'm using an AT 4073a now, but it seems too directional an misses out on some of the instruments. Does the Sennheiser not have that problem. I've heard that is not a true Shotgun mic per say, so it might have a big advantage over the 4073a. Hmm. There about 400 from B&H?

October 28th, 2004, 02:21 PM	#4
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	The pattern seems more cardoid than ultra directional. I think I bought mine for less at ZZOUNDS.COM

October 28th, 2004, 02:25 PM	#5
James Lilly Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 66	Thanks a lot fellow Santa Fean. I think I'll order from them.

October 28th, 2004, 02:45 PM	#6
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	you from Oz? I recorded most of the Plaza summer series music with that senn. Came out beautifully.

October 28th, 2004, 02:48 PM	#7
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	The pattern of an ME66 and its off-axis coloration will still be problematic in recording a concert. I would vote for one or two AT3031 cardioids ($150 to $170 each depending on vendor). You can use these mics singly, in a stereo pair or separately for covering two areas. This mic has very low self-noise for its price as well as low off-axis coloration, a flat well-balanced frequency response, good sensitivity and a very high max SPL. There are other choices available, but none that I could mention have substantial advantage over the 3031 and they cost more.

October 28th, 2004, 02:53 PM	#8
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	Shotgun mics sound crappy indoors. They have really uneven frequency response for sounds not hitting it from the front. Indoors, you have all sorts of echoes hitting the mic from all sides. It makes things sound weird/hollow/artificial. In my experience , 2 Shure SM58s beat out 2 shotguns (Apex, AT835bs) be a huge margin when recording a music recital in an auditorium (lots of reverb). The bands sound way out of tune (they aren't) and certain notes drop off in volume when recording with the shotguns. The Shure SM58s sound much better in comparison. And you aren't even supposed to use those for recording music (they are cardioid dynamic vocal mics). I would try a hypercardioid mic like the Oktava MC012 with hypercardioid capsule (need a mixer for phantom power and preamps). The Sony MS907/908 can be good enough if you want to save money. *Noticed something: The AT 4073a (which you already have) is a hypercardioid mic so there's not too much point in getting another hypercardioid mic. You could get the Oktava mic above with cardioid capsule and buy the hyper capsule and experiment with it. You can also hotrod it for better sound.

October 28th, 2004, 04:22 PM	#10
James Lilly Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 66	That is very informative, thank you. If you were to pick between a AT3031 and a Shure SM58, which one would you go for? I'm thinking the AT3031 because it looks easier to attach to a boom or camera at some point, although I don't know if I'd ever want to do that, I just like options. I'll be listening to the sound samples tonight, thank you. As for Oz, yes, I followed the yellow road here. Very cool you shot the summer series. Did you get a contract with the city?

October 28th, 2004, 04:26 PM	#11
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	1- Listen to what Beaser said, it's more accurate than what I wrote. (i.e. for some reason I thought the 4073a was a hypercardioid. AT website shows it's a shotgun http://www.audio-technica.com/prodpro/profiles/AT4073a.html). 2- That is very informative, thank you. If you were to pick between a AT3031 and a Shure SM58, which one would you go for? I'm thinking the AT3031 because it looks easier to attach to a boom or camera at some point, although I don't know if I'd ever want to do that, I just like options. I'll be listening to the sound samples tonight, thank you. The AT3031 hands down (or any of the other mics Beaser mentioned). The Shure SM58 isn't the right kind of mic for this application. I used 2 Shure Sm58s because I was pulling off a shoestring budget production and they were free to borrow.