Outdoors, A desert place...what sound config? at DVinfo.net

Daniel Moloko · October 23rd, 2004, 01:14 AM

please, help me

i will start shooting a short film that is set in a place that looks like the location of a sergio leone movie, a desert.

ive read this forum trying to have a solution for the best mic to buy. ive agreed that i dont like the me66 short shotgun mic, sounds too canned, not a fat sound for character voices.

anyway, i have this location where the only noise possible to find is from the wind - if there is any noise at all-, i dont have more than 2 pages of dialogue, and i got to choose between these mics: (i live in brazil so its hard to find mics here)

-AKG C 1000

-SAMSON C-02

-BEHRINGER B5

-ME66 (that one i dont want to buy, but i got to put it on the list because i can buy it)

what mic from this list would you choose for the aplication?

thanks a lot

ciao

Jay Massengill · October 24th, 2004, 01:20 PM

You don't mention if you do have 48 volt phantom power. The Samson and the Behringer require this. The AKG and the Sennheiser can run on battery power.
Personally I'd say the C1000 is totally off the list. It doesn't have the sensitivity or noise specs to make this work and sound good.
Even though I'm not a big fan of the ME66 either, I think it's your best choice in this situation, if you can also afford good wind protection. This would really be a must for this mic. Also make sure the bass rolloff switch is in the flat position. This will help with filling out the bottom end of the sound. If you need bass rolloff use something in post production that has a lower starting frequency than the switch on the mic.
If you can't afford good wind protection for the ME66, then you might be better off with the Behringer B5 (cardioid head) or the Samson C-02 (which is usually sold in pairs) and a cheap small furry screen. The Behringer has better noise and sensitivity specs but I've never used either mic. The one problem with these mics is their quality control. If you're lucky you'll get a good mic. With either of these mics you must boom them very close to the subjects. You'll have to be very aware of shadows if booming from overhead. If you have wide shots with two characters then having two mics (like the Samson pair) might work better but would still probably be too far away. You're lucky that you'll only have wind noise to deal with, that will make it easier.
If you keep looking for additional mics, the AT3031 would be better than the B5 or C-02 but would still be a cardioid and would have to be close. The Rode NT3 would have a little more reach and could run on battery power. It is however heavy for booming. With only two pages that shouldn't be a terrible problem.

Daniel Moloko · October 24th, 2004, 03:07 PM

anyway,

i dont have phatom power on the camcorder, i will get a behringer mixer mx802.

so, the C 1000 isnt really good, right?

do you think its better to get a behringer b5 over the samson?

and do you think its worth to use these mics over the Me66, even if we have to get closer than the me66?

the sound of the behringer makes it worth?

thanks a lot.

by the way, ive searched and yes i can get the audio techica, but the price of it, here in brazil, it's 1.000 and the behringer and the samson cost around 500. with 1.000 i can get the mixer (that costs 500) and the behringer mic or the samson.

do you think its worth to buy the audio tecnica?

what do you think its the best thing to do?

thanks again,

ciao

Daniel Moloko · October 24th, 2004, 03:28 PM

just to let you know, maybe this can help.

im working with the camcorder JVC HD10u

ciao

Jay Massengill · October 24th, 2004, 04:38 PM

This is a difficult decision, not only because of the mics, but also in how to connect the mixer to the camera. I'm not sure that camera can accept a line level signal from a mixer without also buying an attenuator. Can you get an attenuator to drop the mixer output to mic-level? Is there a switch on the camera to allow it to accept a line-level signal? Or can you get a battery powered phantom supply instead of a mixer?
As for the mics, the B5 has better specs than the Samson but I've never used either one. I really can't say for sure.
The ME66 would be more suitable for this shooting situation, but could be subject to more wind noise. It would require more expensive protection unless you could be certain of picking a still day to shoot on.
I think this is going to be a toss-up that will depend on how flexible you can be with the weather.
Are there any possibilities of renting equipment for this shoot?

Jacques Mersereau · October 24th, 2004, 07:41 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Daniel Moloko : please, help me

i will start shooting a short film that is set in a place that looks like the location of a sergio leone movie, a desert.-->>>

I heard a *rumor* from another soundman that every Clint Eastwood movie
ever shot used a Schoeps MK41 (he spoke with the IATSE sound woman
who worked with Clint).

Ante the money, buy it once and use it forever IMO.

PS FORGET SAMSON and Behringer! The C1000 isn't the right tool imo either.

Daniel Moloko · October 24th, 2004, 11:09 PM

so, not a chance to have a good audio?!

i know a guy here who have the oktavas kit, maybe he can sell it to me.

any chances to have good audio on this setup with oktavas?

or it will be better the AT 3031?

or even the me66 will get me better audio?

ciao

Jacques Mersereau · October 25th, 2004, 06:46 AM

<<so, not a chance to have a good audio?!>>

Nothing really good comes cheap. If you could afford the Schoeps,
you would get great audio and then be able to sell it for almost what
you paid. That said, a mic alone is NOT enough. You'll need a
windscreen of some kind (I like Rycote systems) and a pole.

The ME66 or ME67 have acceptable quality for a no budget flick, but you'll
still need a windscreen and boom pole. No windscreen means ONLY
being able to shoot in calm wind conditions and that makes life
very difficult.

Daniel Moloko · October 25th, 2004, 10:50 AM

thanks a lot,

by the way, i have one boom already.

i have one mic suport, that one with rubbers.

and i have one windscreen, not the expensive one thou.

anyway, all im asking have to be based on the fact that i do have the boom and the windscreen...

so, the me66 is the best choice? at-3031 or behringer wouldnt get me a better audio?

ciao

Jay Massengill · October 25th, 2004, 07:51 PM

I think the ME66 would be the most practical solution in this case. Sometimes practical concerns can result in better audio even if the mic you're using doesn't have your favorite sound qualities. You have to balance out a lot of factors, including how your visuals are framed and how to best connect to the camera.

October 23rd, 2004, 01:14 AM	#1
Daniel Moloko Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Brazil Posts: 124	Outdoors, A desert place...what sound config? please, help me i will start shooting a short film that is set in a place that looks like the location of a sergio leone movie, a desert. ive read this forum trying to have a solution for the best mic to buy. ive agreed that i dont like the me66 short shotgun mic, sounds too canned, not a fat sound for character voices. anyway, i have this location where the only noise possible to find is from the wind - if there is any noise at all-, i dont have more than 2 pages of dialogue, and i got to choose between these mics: (i live in brazil so its hard to find mics here) -AKG C 1000 -SAMSON C-02 -BEHRINGER B5 -ME66 (that one i dont want to buy, but i got to put it on the list because i can buy it) what mic from this list would you choose for the aplication? thanks a lot ciao

October 24th, 2004, 03:07 PM	#3
Daniel Moloko Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Brazil Posts: 124	thanks a lot!! anyway, i dont have phatom power on the camcorder, i will get a behringer mixer mx802. so, the C 1000 isnt really good, right? do you think its better to get a behringer b5 over the samson? and do you think its worth to use these mics over the Me66, even if we have to get closer than the me66? the sound of the behringer makes it worth? thanks a lot. by the way, ive searched and yes i can get the audio techica, but the price of it, here in brazil, it's 1.000 and the behringer and the samson cost around 500. with 1.000 i can get the mixer (that costs 500) and the behringer mic or the samson. do you think its worth to buy the audio tecnica? what do you think its the best thing to do? thanks again, ciao

October 24th, 2004, 07:41 PM	#6
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	Re: Outdoors, A desert place...what sound config? <<<-- Originally posted by Daniel Moloko : please, help me i will start shooting a short film that is set in a place that looks like the location of a sergio leone movie, a desert.-->>> I heard a rumor from another soundman that every Clint Eastwood movie ever shot used a Schoeps MK41 (he spoke with the IATSE sound woman who worked with Clint). Ante the money, buy it once and use it forever IMO. PS FORGET SAMSON and Behringer! The C1000 isn't the right tool imo either. __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager

October 25th, 2004, 06:46 AM	#8
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	<<so, not a chance to have a good audio?!>> Nothing really good comes cheap. If you could afford the Schoeps, you would get great audio and then be able to sell it for almost what you paid. That said, a mic alone is NOT enough. You'll need a windscreen of some kind (I like Rycote systems) and a pole. The ME66 or ME67 have acceptable quality for a no budget flick, but you'll still need a windscreen and boom pole. No windscreen means ONLY being able to shoot in calm wind conditions and that makes life very difficult. __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager

October 24th, 2004, 01:20 PM	#2
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	You don't mention if you do have 48 volt phantom power. The Samson and the Behringer require this. The AKG and the Sennheiser can run on battery power. Personally I'd say the C1000 is totally off the list. It doesn't have the sensitivity or noise specs to make this work and sound good. Even though I'm not a big fan of the ME66 either, I think it's your best choice in this situation, if you can also afford good wind protection. This would really be a must for this mic. Also make sure the bass rolloff switch is in the flat position. This will help with filling out the bottom end of the sound. If you need bass rolloff use something in post production that has a lower starting frequency than the switch on the mic. If you can't afford good wind protection for the ME66, then you might be better off with the Behringer B5 (cardioid head) or the Samson C-02 (which is usually sold in pairs) and a cheap small furry screen. The Behringer has better noise and sensitivity specs but I've never used either mic. The one problem with these mics is their quality control. If you're lucky you'll get a good mic. With either of these mics you must boom them very close to the subjects. You'll have to be very aware of shadows if booming from overhead. If you have wide shots with two characters then having two mics (like the Samson pair) might work better but would still probably be too far away. You're lucky that you'll only have wind noise to deal with, that will make it easier. If you keep looking for additional mics, the AT3031 would be better than the B5 or C-02 but would still be a cardioid and would have to be close. The Rode NT3 would have a little more reach and could run on battery power. It is however heavy for booming. With only two pages that shouldn't be a terrible problem.

October 24th, 2004, 03:28 PM	#4
Daniel Moloko Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Brazil Posts: 124	just to let you know, maybe this can help. im working with the camcorder JVC HD10u ciao

October 24th, 2004, 04:38 PM	#5
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	This is a difficult decision, not only because of the mics, but also in how to connect the mixer to the camera. I'm not sure that camera can accept a line level signal from a mixer without also buying an attenuator. Can you get an attenuator to drop the mixer output to mic-level? Is there a switch on the camera to allow it to accept a line-level signal? Or can you get a battery powered phantom supply instead of a mixer? As for the mics, the B5 has better specs than the Samson but I've never used either one. I really can't say for sure. The ME66 would be more suitable for this shooting situation, but could be subject to more wind noise. It would require more expensive protection unless you could be certain of picking a still day to shoot on. I think this is going to be a toss-up that will depend on how flexible you can be with the weather. Are there any possibilities of renting equipment for this shoot?

October 24th, 2004, 11:09 PM	#7
Daniel Moloko Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Brazil Posts: 124	so, not a chance to have a good audio?! i know a guy here who have the oktavas kit, maybe he can sell it to me. any chances to have good audio on this setup with oktavas? or it will be better the AT 3031? or even the me66 will get me better audio? ciao

October 25th, 2004, 10:50 AM	#9
Daniel Moloko Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Brazil Posts: 124	thanks a lot, by the way, i have one boom already. i have one mic suport, that one with rubbers. and i have one windscreen, not the expensive one thou. anyway, all im asking have to be based on the fact that i do have the boom and the windscreen... so, the me66 is the best choice? at-3031 or behringer wouldnt get me a better audio? ciao

October 25th, 2004, 07:51 PM	#10
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	I think the ME66 would be the most practical solution in this case. Sometimes practical concerns can result in better audio even if the mic you're using doesn't have your favorite sound qualities. You have to balance out a lot of factors, including how your visuals are framed and how to best connect to the camera.