Micro Sized Digital Recorder at DVinfo.net

Brett Erskine · October 19th, 2004, 12:15 AM

Does anyone make a tiny digital recorder that records on EITHER compact flash, memory stick, micro drive, etc. ?

Im looking for one as small as possible. At least as small as a IPod.

The idea is to use something like this with a wireless transmiter to make sure I always get good audio. I plan on spliting the signal from the lav to both the tranmitter and the digital recorder. But for it to make sense it needs to be battery powered and tiny. If not maybe theres a better way to do this.

Glenn Chan · October 19th, 2004, 06:29 AM

You might want to research the Sony mini-disc (the new hi-MD ones) and the iRiver. The first has really good electronics and is pretty small, but you may have difficulty getting sound off it because Sony implement anti-music recording/copying schemes. The iRiver can record uncompressed or mp3 audio, but its electronics probably suck and you could attach an A-D convertor to it and use the digital input on it (adds to size and complexity).

I haven't used either (except for mini-disc) so I can't help much here. With mini-disc you can play the MD and record through a digital/analog output. The analog output can be good enough for quality depending on how picky you want to be and your audience.

2- Budget?

3- What wireless lav do you already have? A better set may or may not be a better idea?

Brett Erskine · October 20th, 2004, 01:43 AM

I have a mid level Sennheiser wireless system. I've hear competing signals once in a long while but thankfully it never happened when we were shooting. Never the less in one take only shoots I need a for sure thing.

The mini discs recorders are small but not quite small enough. When your planing on straping it to a transmitter as well and putting it on the talent every inch counts.

So when searching for a solution the first thing I popped in my head was all though tiny consumer compact flash, memory stick MP3 players on the market. Does anyone make something like that but will record a signal from a incoming mic? Seems like its the only way to make sure I have good audio for my edit later on.

Can someone help me with this issue?

Giroud Francois · October 20th, 2004, 02:33 AM

small
http://www.edirol.com/press/html/2004/092704_r1_pr.html
bigger
http://www.audiocubes.com/product_in...oducts_id=1029
exotic
http://www.core-sound.com/pdaudio-cf.html

else you can use any mp3 player with record functiunality.
The problem being that these gadget usually have only line input and/or integrated mic, so no mic level input.
You could tweak one, by removing the internal electret mic and adding a minijack plug instead. this should allow you to plug an external mic.

Mark A. Foley · October 24th, 2004, 04:26 AM

You should consider the iRiver...pretty amazing little gadget about the size of a big tube of lipstick. A few weeks ago I used one (IF-790) with a cheap little $20 axden lav mic to place on a officiant during a outdoor wedding. What was unique about that day was the approach of Hurricane Francis...we were in the very outer wind bands at the time of the wedding...15-20 mph typical winds. I was a little nervous about the quality until I listened to it the first time after dropping it into Vegas...WOW...

http://www.iriveramerica.com/products/flash.aspx

Giroud Francois · October 24th, 2004, 04:43 AM

As the model you mentionned (IF-790) seems to have a line-in plug and no mic-in , how have you connected your mic to the mp3 recorder, or what kind of output you lav mic was delivering ?

Mark A. Foley · October 24th, 2004, 05:06 AM

If your asking if it has a seperate line-in and mic-in input jack ...no...but the line-in/mic-in input is firmware selectable.....

Here is the link to the mic I was using....
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...u=89741&is=REG

Giroud Francois · October 24th, 2004, 05:13 AM

when you say firmware selectable, this means accessing with a menu, button, or flashing a new firmaware into the player ?

The iriver 595T is really small and has a mic-in plug, but runs on its own battery. I am looking for device that runs on standard AA or AAA.
The iriver 12o and 140 have a mic plug too, but runs with harddisk. too expensive and breakable.

you can check herehttp://www.neurosaudio.com/store/prod_preampSpec.asp
for a mic to line level amplifier. it is small but as big as the mp3 recorder and as expensive too.

Mark A. Foley · October 24th, 2004, 05:22 AM

Yes..simple menu button...The 700 series are catching on in the wedding video industry...runs on one AA battery....

Giroud Francois · October 24th, 2004, 08:15 AM

thanks for the info, i will go for the 799 model (1gig of memory)

Charley Gallagher · October 24th, 2004, 08:28 PM

Mark, when switched to the "line-in" position does it accept a signal from a mixer or sound system "line-out" without distortion?

I would would think that is the reason for the distinction between the two settings, that the mic would be preamplified but the line in would accept the, (I believe) one volt signal from the usual line out.

It would be great to be able to plug this into the DJ's mixer. No muss. No fuss.

Mark A. Foley · October 25th, 2004, 08:04 AM

I'm assuming it would...haven't configured it for that process yet (have another recorder for any line-level recording)

Michael Pace · October 25th, 2004, 12:51 PM

Mark, i saw in iRiver's site for that model (790) that it comes w/ a USB cable-- is that how you xfer the recordings to the PC for use in Vegas?

If so, what's the file type (wav, mp3 etc) once recordings are uploaded?

Looks very interesting for a variety of applications

Thanks,

MRP

Mark A. Foley · October 25th, 2004, 12:55 PM

Yes...but the file has to be converted in the supplied iRiver software before importing into Vegas...it adds about a minute or so to the process :-)

Brett Erskine · October 25th, 2004, 04:44 PM

Great info! Can you guys think of any problems I might have by chosing to add a y-adapter (or y-cable) coming off the lav and into both the iRiver AND my wireless transmitter body pack?

For thoughs scratching their heads why I would do all that:
You get the best of both worlds. I would use the iRiver as a backup source to record a signal because its sure not to have any interferance issues competing signals. And the wireless transmitter as the first source because (unlike the iRiver) I can monitor the levels remotely and dont have to sync up the sound later.

So can this be done or will I NEED some type of miniture signal booster or D/A to split the signal like this?

Thanks for everyones help.

October 19th, 2004, 12:15 AM	#1
Brett Erskine Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 445	Micro Sized Digital Recorder Does anyone make a tiny digital recorder that records on EITHER compact flash, memory stick, micro drive, etc. ? Im looking for one as small as possible. At least as small as a IPod. The idea is to use something like this with a wireless transmiter to make sure I always get good audio. I plan on spliting the signal from the lav to both the tranmitter and the digital recorder. But for it to make sense it needs to be battery powered and tiny. If not maybe theres a better way to do this.

October 19th, 2004, 06:29 AM	#2
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	You might want to research the Sony mini-disc (the new hi-MD ones) and the iRiver. The first has really good electronics and is pretty small, but you may have difficulty getting sound off it because Sony implement anti-music recording/copying schemes. The iRiver can record uncompressed or mp3 audio, but its electronics probably suck and you could attach an A-D convertor to it and use the digital input on it (adds to size and complexity). I haven't used either (except for mini-disc) so I can't help much here. With mini-disc you can play the MD and record through a digital/analog output. The analog output can be good enough for quality depending on how picky you want to be and your audience. 2- Budget? 3- What wireless lav do you already have? A better set may or may not be a better idea?

October 20th, 2004, 01:43 AM	#3
Brett Erskine Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 445	I have a mid level Sennheiser wireless system. I've hear competing signals once in a long while but thankfully it never happened when we were shooting. Never the less in one take only shoots I need a for sure thing. The mini discs recorders are small but not quite small enough. When your planing on straping it to a transmitter as well and putting it on the talent every inch counts. So when searching for a solution the first thing I popped in my head was all though tiny consumer compact flash, memory stick MP3 players on the market. Does anyone make something like that but will record a signal from a incoming mic? Seems like its the only way to make sure I have good audio for my edit later on. Can someone help me with this issue?

October 20th, 2004, 02:33 AM	#4
Giroud Francois Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,133	small http://www.edirol.com/press/html/2004/092704_r1_pr.html bigger http://www.audiocubes.com/product_in...oducts_id=1029 exotic http://www.core-sound.com/pdaudio-cf.html else you can use any mp3 player with record functiunality. The problem being that these gadget usually have only line input and/or integrated mic, so no mic level input. You could tweak one, by removing the internal electret mic and adding a minijack plug instead. this should allow you to plug an external mic.

October 24th, 2004, 04:26 AM	#5
Mark A. Foley Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Bonaire, Ga. Posts: 356	You should consider the iRiver...pretty amazing little gadget about the size of a big tube of lipstick. A few weeks ago I used one (IF-790) with a cheap little $20 axden lav mic to place on a officiant during a outdoor wedding. What was unique about that day was the approach of Hurricane Francis...we were in the very outer wind bands at the time of the wedding...15-20 mph typical winds. I was a little nervous about the quality until I listened to it the first time after dropping it into Vegas...WOW... http://www.iriveramerica.com/products/flash.aspx

October 24th, 2004, 04:43 AM	#6
Giroud Francois Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,133	As the model you mentionned (IF-790) seems to have a line-in plug and no mic-in , how have you connected your mic to the mp3 recorder, or what kind of output you lav mic was delivering ?

October 24th, 2004, 05:06 AM	#7
Mark A. Foley Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Bonaire, Ga. Posts: 356	If your asking if it has a seperate line-in and mic-in input jack ...no...but the line-in/mic-in input is firmware selectable..... Here is the link to the mic I was using.... http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...u=89741&is=REG

October 24th, 2004, 05:13 AM	#8
Giroud Francois Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,133	when you say firmware selectable, this means accessing with a menu, button, or flashing a new firmaware into the player ? The iriver 595T is really small and has a mic-in plug, but runs on its own battery. I am looking for device that runs on standard AA or AAA. The iriver 12o and 140 have a mic plug too, but runs with harddisk. too expensive and breakable. you can check herehttp://www.neurosaudio.com/store/prod_preampSpec.asp for a mic to line level amplifier. it is small but as big as the mp3 recorder and as expensive too.

October 24th, 2004, 05:22 AM	#9
Mark A. Foley Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Bonaire, Ga. Posts: 356	Yes..simple menu button...The 700 series are catching on in the wedding video industry...runs on one AA battery....

October 24th, 2004, 08:15 AM	#10
Giroud Francois Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,133	thanks for the info, i will go for the 799 model (1gig of memory)

October 24th, 2004, 08:28 PM	#11
Charley Gallagher Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Collingswood, NJ Posts: 99	Mark, when switched to the "line-in" position does it accept a signal from a mixer or sound system "line-out" without distortion? I would would think that is the reason for the distinction between the two settings, that the mic would be preamplified but the line in would accept the, (I believe) one volt signal from the usual line out. It would be great to be able to plug this into the DJ's mixer. No muss. No fuss.

October 25th, 2004, 08:04 AM	#12
Mark A. Foley Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Bonaire, Ga. Posts: 356	I'm assuming it would...haven't configured it for that process yet (have another recorder for any line-level recording)

October 25th, 2004, 12:51 PM	#13
Michael Pace Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: La Florida Posts: 68	Mark, i saw in iRiver's site for that model (790) that it comes w/ a USB cable-- is that how you xfer the recordings to the PC for use in Vegas? If so, what's the file type (wav, mp3 etc) once recordings are uploaded? Looks very interesting for a variety of applications Thanks, MRP

October 25th, 2004, 12:55 PM	#14
Mark A. Foley Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Bonaire, Ga. Posts: 356	Yes...but the file has to be converted in the supplied iRiver software before importing into Vegas...it adds about a minute or so to the process :-)

October 25th, 2004, 04:44 PM	#15
Brett Erskine Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 445	Great info! Can you guys think of any problems I might have by chosing to add a y-adapter (or y-cable) coming off the lav and into both the iRiver AND my wireless transmitter body pack? For thoughs scratching their heads why I would do all that: You get the best of both worlds. I would use the iRiver as a backup source to record a signal because its sure not to have any interferance issues competing signals. And the wireless transmitter as the first source because (unlike the iRiver) I can monitor the levels remotely and dont have to sync up the sound later. So can this be done or will I NEED some type of miniture signal booster or D/A to split the signal like this? Thanks for everyones help.