Lectrosonic Wireless

Jeffery Magat · February 14th, 2011, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Cronin

John I am very aware power is not everything but on some jobs it is very important. My G3 100 cut out very close distance and crack at even a closer distance.

I find it hard to believe that the G3 100 at 30mW can out perform the 2000 at 100mW and the Lectros at 250mW with range. Can you send a link to that test?

Let's see the data. I highly doubt the G3 could out perform Audio LTD or Lectros.

Greg Bellotte · February 14th, 2011, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Cronin

John I am very aware power is not everything but on some jobs it is very important. My G3 100 cut out very close distance and crack at even a closer distance.

Sounds to me like there is interference on the channel you are using, or your units may have damaged antennas (not always visible) or some other problem. Or maybe we should define "close". I find that even the battery powered receiver works like wire from 0 to 50 feet-IF there is line of sight and there are no other issues present. If you are not achieving this I suggest there is a problem somewhere.

I love the power comparisons. In RF you must SQUARE the power to double your distance of coverage (all other things being equal of course). So to double the coverage of the "lowly" sennheiser you'd need 900mW...you'll get much better gains from interference free channels and better placement between units. I find 30mW to be quite useful IMHO.

I demoed AT and Sony diversity systems before I bought my G2 units, and the non-div G2 did MUCH better. I now own over 20 G2 and G3 systems...you can't beat them for the price.

To the OP, the lectro units with tracking are superb, I use them all the time too (but don't actually own any) and have never been disappointed. I really like the venue rack system. If my G2's didn't work so well they'd be the next step up the ladder for me. maybe someday...

Paul Cronin · February 14th, 2011, 02:29 PM

Good point on the power must be squared to double the distance.

I am OK up to 40-50' if there is no interference. But we are using outboard motors and they are a pain to work around. Also we would like to get 150' if possible.

I spend a lot of time at each new location dialing in my G3. The extra channels on the 2000 interest me. The 30mW on the G3 is top power from the transmitter. I know the receiver is lower but not sure how much, I was told 12mW but have not confirmed that number. Also with all of my years using VHF radios when you go from 5W for hand held to 25W for base you have a huge gain in distance. That is with the hand held hooked up to a base antenna.

Antennas seem fine but like you say they could break and you would not know. Be nice if they could be replaced. That is one more feather in the cap for the Lectros.

My units receive hard use and I don't think the G3 is tough enough for me but will have to do for at least one more trip.

Greg Bellotte · February 14th, 2011, 04:31 PM

Ok then, good info. A few observations if you don't mind my ramblings. :-)

Outboard motors seem like they would give off a lot of EMI when running. Could be part of your issue, you'd need a spectrum analyzer to be sure.

If you are on a boat while shooting another boat, use some XLR to get your receiver off the camera and as high as possible. Put it up on a pole or something. If on land, use that cable to place the receiver closer to the guy wearing the transmitter and close the distance between the two, but remember to keep it as high as possible.

Also, make sure to do your homework for frequencies. Use the sennheiser freq finder site and antennaweb.org to research DTV broadcasters and stay clear of their frequencies. One of the probs with analog receivers is that when you scan for open channels they DO NOT see digital broadcasts, so they may report the freq is open when there is indeed activity there. Stay away from DTV channels, you are competing with many THOUSANDS of watts when it come to broadcast.

I would not expect to get 150' from stock ENG mics, even a lectro with the stock antennas. I'm not saying its not possible, just not expected. Higher gain antennas with higher placement (higher above ground) can get you better range. Using the rack mount true diversity receiver, two directional high gain antennas, and signal filters/boosters can give you over 1000' of usable range-even with the G2 30mW transmitter. I know because I run this very setup for broadcast applications, and this is one of the instances where my 30mW setup beats even 250mW ENG units with stock antennas and no diversity.

You are misinformed concerning your comment about receiver power (sorry). The only power rating a receiver will have is for energy consumption, nothing to do with range. Sensitivity and selectivity are the biggie specs for a receiver, and the portable ones are never as good as say a rack mount receiver. Your VHF radio scenario worked better because you hooked up a base antenna to your handheld...higher antenna placement and higher gain in the antenna itself...your 25W base probably had better receiver specs than the handheld too.

On to the 2000 series, the next level up from the G3 line. More channels is a good thing these days. The receivers are more sensitive as well. You get what you pay for with RF. Senn also has a 3000 and 5000 series, some over $7,000usd per channel. Check out Broadcast Sports Inc., They use to use 5000 series stuff (250mW TX power) on the golf tournaments for NBC/CBS/TGC and cover a whole golf course (they now use custom TX units in the 1.4GHz range, but follow me here). That transmitter has a high gain antenna mounted to a headset the talent wears so its up in the air with clean line of sight to the other end, not hidden under a shirt or behind the body so you don't see it. They also use custom antennas (directional with VERY high gain) hung over 200 feet in the air to receive with and may use several sites to do so...see a pattern here? :-) More TX power will help, but it's certainly not everything...

Paul Cronin · February 14th, 2011, 04:39 PM

Thanks Greg for the ideas and excellent input.

Did not think the receiver was accurate so thanks for putting me straight on that one.

Running out the door but will look your post over in detail tomorrow. I might have a few questions if you don't mind.

Paul Cronin · February 15th, 2011, 08:17 AM

Greg,

I like the idea of putting the two receivers on a pole with XLR to the camera. I will give this a try since line of sight is so important while shooting from boat to boat. We jump around a lot with a very active producer and have to move quick.

When we are on land it is not as much of a problem since I am very close 10-20 feet.

I did check the frequencies from sennheiser but did not know about the antennaweb.org good to know. After the job I found there was a military antenna in the area that I had no info on. Running both G3's one unit was ok and the other had problems when on land. On the water they both broke up quickly. Also we had 5 different outboards that we kept switching between.

I was able to get what I needed for audio but it has been a little tough in post. We are going back to the same location and this time I have an extra day to dial in my gear. Will give the G3 another go this round and see if I can improve the range and break up.

Thanks for your help it is very much appreciated.

February 14th, 2011, 02:29 PM	#48
Paul Cronin Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 4,048	Good point on the power must be squared to double the distance. I am OK up to 40-50' if there is no interference. But we are using outboard motors and they are a pain to work around. Also we would like to get 150' if possible. I spend a lot of time at each new location dialing in my G3. The extra channels on the 2000 interest me. The 30mW on the G3 is top power from the transmitter. I know the receiver is lower but not sure how much, I was told 12mW but have not confirmed that number. Also with all of my years using VHF radios when you go from 5W for hand held to 25W for base you have a huge gain in distance. That is with the hand held hooked up to a base antenna. Antennas seem fine but like you say they could break and you would not know. Be nice if they could be replaced. That is one more feather in the cap for the Lectros. My units receive hard use and I don't think the G3 is tough enough for me but will have to do for at least one more trip. __________________ Paul Cronin www.paulcroninstudios.com

February 14th, 2011, 04:39 PM	#50
Paul Cronin Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 4,048	Thanks Greg for the ideas and excellent input. Did not think the receiver was accurate so thanks for putting me straight on that one. Running out the door but will look your post over in detail tomorrow. I might have a few questions if you don't mind. __________________ Paul Cronin www.paulcroninstudios.com

February 15th, 2011, 08:17 AM	#51
Paul Cronin Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 4,048	Greg, I like the idea of putting the two receivers on a pole with XLR to the camera. I will give this a try since line of sight is so important while shooting from boat to boat. We jump around a lot with a very active producer and have to move quick. When we are on land it is not as much of a problem since I am very close 10-20 feet. I did check the frequencies from sennheiser but did not know about the antennaweb.org good to know. After the job I found there was a military antenna in the area that I had no info on. Running both G3's one unit was ok and the other had problems when on land. On the water they both broke up quickly. Also we had 5 different outboards that we kept switching between. I was able to get what I needed for audio but it has been a little tough in post. We are going back to the same location and this time I have an extra day to dial in my gear. Will give the G3 another go this round and see if I can improve the range and break up. Thanks for your help it is very much appreciated. __________________ Paul Cronin www.paulcroninstudios.com

February 14th, 2011, 04:31 PM	#49
Greg Bellotte Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: SLC, UT Posts: 291	Ok then, good info. A few observations if you don't mind my ramblings. :-) Outboard motors seem like they would give off a lot of EMI when running. Could be part of your issue, you'd need a spectrum analyzer to be sure. If you are on a boat while shooting another boat, use some XLR to get your receiver off the camera and as high as possible. Put it up on a pole or something. If on land, use that cable to place the receiver closer to the guy wearing the transmitter and close the distance between the two, but remember to keep it as high as possible. Also, make sure to do your homework for frequencies. Use the sennheiser freq finder site and antennaweb.org to research DTV broadcasters and stay clear of their frequencies. One of the probs with analog receivers is that when you scan for open channels they DO NOT see digital broadcasts, so they may report the freq is open when there is indeed activity there. Stay away from DTV channels, you are competing with many THOUSANDS of watts when it come to broadcast. I would not expect to get 150' from stock ENG mics, even a lectro with the stock antennas. I'm not saying its not possible, just not expected. Higher gain antennas with higher placement (higher above ground) can get you better range. Using the rack mount true diversity receiver, two directional high gain antennas, and signal filters/boosters can give you over 1000' of usable range-even with the G2 30mW transmitter. I know because I run this very setup for broadcast applications, and this is one of the instances where my 30mW setup beats even 250mW ENG units with stock antennas and no diversity. You are misinformed concerning your comment about receiver power (sorry). The only power rating a receiver will have is for energy consumption, nothing to do with range. Sensitivity and selectivity are the biggie specs for a receiver, and the portable ones are never as good as say a rack mount receiver. Your VHF radio scenario worked better because you hooked up a base antenna to your handheld...higher antenna placement and higher gain in the antenna itself...your 25W base probably had better receiver specs than the handheld too. On to the 2000 series, the next level up from the G3 line. More channels is a good thing these days. The receivers are more sensitive as well. You get what you pay for with RF. Senn also has a 3000 and 5000 series, some over $7,000usd per channel. Check out Broadcast Sports Inc., They use to use 5000 series stuff (250mW TX power) on the golf tournaments for NBC/CBS/TGC and cover a whole golf course (they now use custom TX units in the 1.4GHz range, but follow me here). That transmitter has a high gain antenna mounted to a headset the talent wears so its up in the air with clean line of sight to the other end, not hidden under a shirt or behind the body so you don't see it. They also use custom antennas (directional with VERY high gain) hung over 200 feet in the air to receive with and may use several sites to do so...see a pattern here? :-) More TX power will help, but it's certainly not everything...