On the Brink of Mic Decision

Matt Gettemeier · September 2nd, 2004, 03:30 PM

I'm having fun too! Hey don't end our fun! LOL.

Marty... I hope you're smiling when you read my posts because I'm smiling when I read yours. I don't mean that in disrespect, but rather I appreciate your input and I'm enjoying the debate on this issue.

For the last day or so I've raced in and turned on my computer just to see what everybody (including YOU) is saying...

I love it when the conversation gets a little extra energy in it... especially about sound. I'm also of the mind that I can agree to disagree agreeably.

So if we see the value of these comparisons differently then so be it. I still like you and I'm glad you're here. I wish we had even MORE experienced sound guys on this board that I could have these conversations with.

Just to throw another analogy out... When I say that Beas and I (and others) are offering the inexperienced among us a taste... it's exactly that. If somebody gives me a bite of something from a restaurant... I don't then know the menu... and I really don't know much about the long term experiences I'll have with that restaurant... but I can decide if I want more of what I tasted or if I'll choose to taste something else instead.

The mic comparos we've been doing are for the benefit of everybody... take a look at the ever growing list... I keep 25% of the mics I test... but so far I've had to BUY 90% of 'em... so there's no bias. I'm not trying to trick people into thinking anything about the mics I'm A/B recording. They can decide for themselves... All the tests are done in either a live room or a deader one (bedroom) at equal distance and equalized volume... on the occasions where one mic or the other must be turned up or down to match the other... that's clearly stated in the test.

It doesn't matter if the tests weren't even THIS scientific... because in every test it's an A/B comparison... so you automatically have a "control group"... and what's more important is that there is great care taken to ensure that the tests ARE in fact scientific and cautious.

I appreciate you stating how much trouble it is to do these A/B tests... I agree whole-heartedly... sometimes it's a pain in the ass... but thank GOD Beas and Dave Largent started all this a year and a half ago. People can now find several places on the net where they can get a taste before they buy the restaurant.

Bryan Beasleigh · September 2nd, 2004, 04:09 PM

I'm not smiling, in fact what was a labour of love is now no better than a bad case of hemoroids.

Aaron Koolen · September 2nd, 2004, 04:15 PM

I too applaude all the work that Matt and Bryan have done with these tests. I was going through them last night and they're very interesting. I will certainly use them as a starting point for my next purchase....mmmm....cs3e.....mmmmm

I too though agree with Marty that knowing a bit about the room would also be interesting and add to the evaluation. I know the reasons why not (effort etc) but something to think about as this whole process of mic evaluation grows. I just wish I had some mics you guys didn't have that I could add to the mix ;)

Aaron

Marty Atias · September 2nd, 2004, 04:46 PM

Hey Bryan,

Don't let my comments tring you down. My comments were intended to demonstrate that it is no small task to do a definitive, accurate, and completely valid comparison of microphones via a recording, which is what everyone would like to hear. At this time, I just don't have the time or the equipment required to do it the way I think it should be done.

But that is not what you set out to do, is it? If I hear you correctly, you are creating a collection of indiviual clips that, using the equipment available to you, demonstrate certain basic characteristics of the most popular microphones discussed here. There is certainly nothing wrong with that and I know that many people appreciate it.

Along the way, you are also forming your own opinions of these tools and are giving us the benefits of your personal experience with them. Nothing wrong with that either!

As you go forward, you may attain the ability (equipment, technology, etc.) to do a really valid simultaneous comparison. So don't stop now!
Keep it going!

Barry Rivadue · September 2nd, 2004, 05:03 PM

I finally decided on a mic, and it's considerably scaled down from my original plans. I figure I'm still not at a point that can truly justify the expenditure for a really pricey mic, but whenever that happens I'll certainly be more knowledgeable about what might suit me best. In the meantime though, I've now supplemented my inventory with a Rode NT3. Modest price, high quality; still room for a wonder mic. ;)

Matt Gettemeier · September 2nd, 2004, 05:08 PM

I just laid down my first payment of $100K on an anechoic chamber.

We're going to scope everything too... and run a data feed on it... not to mention regulated p/s and db reports taken from 4 positions in the chamber.

The real bitch of it though is that from now on all my movies, shorts, and various life events have to take place in there... LOL.

I can't believe that I thought that real world shooting situations with multiple mics on a split track would show anybody anything.

Instead of considering audible content offered up as proof of something I say everybody would do best to go on the advice of somebody who profits from the sale of a particular item... LOL.

If I were blind and somebody could show me a rainbow... even for a second... I think I'd find that more useful then a book filled with data on light defraction... angle of incidence... and humidity.

You see I make my videos better with sound, not data... if you want to know why a mic sounds like it does get a book... if you want to know WHAT a mic sounds like... use your ears.

Better yet... just TRUST me... the rainbow is beautiful... you don't need to see anything anyway... lol.

JM Underwood · September 2nd, 2004, 08:45 PM

I have been following this thread with great interest. I'm very new to audio, so a lot of this stuff is over my head, not to mention my budget! :-)

Having said that, I think I get one point that reminds me of a long-time rule-of-thumb for selection high-quality speakers: In the end, it's not the specs that count, but only how it sounds to you, in your living room/home theater.

So it is, I gather, with high quality mics -- rely on your ears.

But I sure could use some help from some of you audio gurus on selecting a wireless system for use in weddings. If any of you have a few minutes to look at my post/question in the "Which wireless system" thread, and give me a few comments/guidelines/pointers, I'd be eternally grateful.

Bryan Beasleigh · September 2nd, 2004, 09:31 PM

I think you made a wise decision. The only negative I've ever heard is the size. Given the mass, there won't be much handling noise.

You should be able to get a Rycote Windjammer for about $50 and you're off to the races. the AT 8415 fits it nicely ($50 at B&H)

It has the same body as your NT4

September 2nd, 2004, 04:09 PM	#32
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	I'm not smiling, in fact what was a labour of love is now no better than a bad case of hemoroids. __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ".......holy smokin rubber lips...what a ride!"

September 2nd, 2004, 04:15 PM	#33
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	I too applaude all the work that Matt and Bryan have done with these tests. I was going through them last night and they're very interesting. I will certainly use them as a starting point for my next purchase....mmmm....cs3e.....mmmmm I too though agree with Marty that knowing a bit about the room would also be interesting and add to the evaluation. I know the reasons why not (effort etc) but something to think about as this whole process of mic evaluation grows. I just wish I had some mics you guys didn't have that I could add to the mix ;) Aaron __________________ My Website Meat Free Media

September 2nd, 2004, 04:46 PM	#34
Marty Atias Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 91	Hey Bryan, Don't let my comments tring you down. My comments were intended to demonstrate that it is no small task to do a definitive, accurate, and completely valid comparison of microphones via a recording, which is what everyone would like to hear. At this time, I just don't have the time or the equipment required to do it the way I think it should be done. But that is not what you set out to do, is it? If I hear you correctly, you are creating a collection of indiviual clips that, using the equipment available to you, demonstrate certain basic characteristics of the most popular microphones discussed here. There is certainly nothing wrong with that and I know that many people appreciate it. Along the way, you are also forming your own opinions of these tools and are giving us the benefits of your personal experience with them. Nothing wrong with that either! As you go forward, you may attain the ability (equipment, technology, etc.) to do a really valid simultaneous comparison. So don't stop now! Keep it going! __________________ Warning: I am an equipment dealer (and have been an an audio engineer for 30 years). I have a bias towards brands that say what they do and do what they say, but my loyalty is to my customers. http://ATSComms.com

September 2nd, 2004, 09:31 PM	#38
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	I think you made a wise decision. The only negative I've ever heard is the size. Given the mass, there won't be much handling noise. You should be able to get a Rycote Windjammer for about $50 and you're off to the races. the AT 8415 fits it nicely ($50 at B&H) It has the same body as your NT4 __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ".......holy smokin rubber lips...what a ride!"

September 2nd, 2004, 03:30 PM	#31
Matt Gettemeier Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 936	I'm having fun too! Hey don't end our fun! LOL. Marty... I hope you're smiling when you read my posts because I'm smiling when I read yours. I don't mean that in disrespect, but rather I appreciate your input and I'm enjoying the debate on this issue. For the last day or so I've raced in and turned on my computer just to see what everybody (including YOU) is saying... I love it when the conversation gets a little extra energy in it... especially about sound. I'm also of the mind that I can agree to disagree agreeably. So if we see the value of these comparisons differently then so be it. I still like you and I'm glad you're here. I wish we had even MORE experienced sound guys on this board that I could have these conversations with. Just to throw another analogy out... When I say that Beas and I (and others) are offering the inexperienced among us a taste... it's exactly that. If somebody gives me a bite of something from a restaurant... I don't then know the menu... and I really don't know much about the long term experiences I'll have with that restaurant... but I can decide if I want more of what I tasted or if I'll choose to taste something else instead. The mic comparos we've been doing are for the benefit of everybody... take a look at the ever growing list... I keep 25% of the mics I test... but so far I've had to BUY 90% of 'em... so there's no bias. I'm not trying to trick people into thinking anything about the mics I'm A/B recording. They can decide for themselves... All the tests are done in either a live room or a deader one (bedroom) at equal distance and equalized volume... on the occasions where one mic or the other must be turned up or down to match the other... that's clearly stated in the test. It doesn't matter if the tests weren't even THIS scientific... because in every test it's an A/B comparison... so you automatically have a "control group"... and what's more important is that there is great care taken to ensure that the tests ARE in fact scientific and cautious. I appreciate you stating how much trouble it is to do these A/B tests... I agree whole-heartedly... sometimes it's a pain in the ass... but thank GOD Beas and Dave Largent started all this a year and a half ago. People can now find several places on the net where they can get a taste before they buy the restaurant.

September 2nd, 2004, 05:03 PM	#35
Barry Rivadue Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 508	I finally decided on a mic, and it's considerably scaled down from my original plans. I figure I'm still not at a point that can truly justify the expenditure for a really pricey mic, but whenever that happens I'll certainly be more knowledgeable about what might suit me best. In the meantime though, I've now supplemented my inventory with a Rode NT3. Modest price, high quality; still room for a wonder mic. ;)

September 2nd, 2004, 05:08 PM	#36
Matt Gettemeier Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 936	I just laid down my first payment of $100K on an anechoic chamber. We're going to scope everything too... and run a data feed on it... not to mention regulated p/s and db reports taken from 4 positions in the chamber. The real bitch of it though is that from now on all my movies, shorts, and various life events have to take place in there... LOL. I can't believe that I thought that real world shooting situations with multiple mics on a split track would show anybody anything. Instead of considering audible content offered up as proof of something I say everybody would do best to go on the advice of somebody who profits from the sale of a particular item... LOL. If I were blind and somebody could show me a rainbow... even for a second... I think I'd find that more useful then a book filled with data on light defraction... angle of incidence... and humidity. You see I make my videos better with sound, not data... if you want to know why a mic sounds like it does get a book... if you want to know WHAT a mic sounds like... use your ears. Better yet... just TRUST me... the rainbow is beautiful... you don't need to see anything anyway... lol.

September 2nd, 2004, 08:45 PM	#37
JM Underwood Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX (Clear Lake area) Posts: 42	I have been following this thread with great interest. I'm very new to audio, so a lot of this stuff is over my head, not to mention my budget! :-) Having said that, I think I get one point that reminds me of a long-time rule-of-thumb for selection high-quality speakers: In the end, it's not the specs that count, but only how it sounds to you, in your living room/home theater. So it is, I gather, with high quality mics -- rely on your ears. But I sure could use some help from some of you audio gurus on selecting a wireless system for use in weddings. If any of you have a few minutes to look at my post/question in the "Which wireless system" thread, and give me a few comments/guidelines/pointers, I'd be eternally grateful.