Good mics at any price, there's not a whole lot(Shot guns and hypers)

Chris L. Gray · August 9th, 2004, 06:27 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Bryan Beasleigh : How about the original topic.

Back to the topic. Quality dialog mics -->>>

Sorry can't contribute much, there. But I used to think that our old EV mic was the sh*t back in the late 80s for radio voiceover/production stuff we did.

I could have sworn that we had a very old Urei mic back in the AM station, but I'm not confident that Urei even made mics.. Was so long ago.

Bryan Beasleigh · August 9th, 2004, 07:48 PM

Apparently the Neuman KMR81 and 82 are very warm dialog shotguns and in the same league as the other high end. My limited exposure to the short capsule cardoids and hypers (KMR184/185) haven't impressed me much at all. I've heard that my reaction is shared by others. (they're apparently fine for music)

I'd love to be able to sit in a quiet room and tinker with the AKG Blue Line. I almost ordered one but chcickened out at the last minute. the talk always goes back to the big ones and the list from the top down is

Hypers
Schoeps MK41
Senn MKH50
Sanken CS1 (not really a hyper but still great for the purpose)
AT 4053 No experience dammit!
CK93 I do like the Blue line Hyper but i'm not sure where to put this in the list. It's modular and it can also be run off of an active cable and mounted on a swivel joint. It's also a bayonet mount.

Oktava MCO12 What can I say, when it's on it's on. it can give mics costing 10 times as much a run.
Rode NT3

There only seems to be one guy who loves the ME64 so i wouldn't take his pronouncement as Gospel. LISTEN FOR YOURSELF That's why Matt and I have set up mic demos

Shotguns (Short)
MKH60 / MKH416 / Sanken CS-3 / Neumann KMR81/CK69 (all great and a coupla bucks from each other) No sense in even rating them as it's all personal taste. I like the MKH60, 416 and CK69 in no order. These mics cost from $1000 (416) to $1350 MK41. The neumanns and CS-3 are $1200 - $1300 and the MKH 60 has come down to $1430

Sanken CS-1 (at $750 an amazing mic. has no rear lobe to speak of and kickass rejection. Works like a hyper for interior dialog as well)
AT 4073 (It's less than half the price of the big boys yet able to still be counted seriously)

Me66/AT897 The ME66 is a good base mic with high output. The AT is a very good base mic with lower output. I'm partial to the AT sound.

AT835b Still a really good mic and only $235

Bryan Beasleigh · August 9th, 2004, 09:10 PM

<<< "I could have sworn that we had a very old Urei mic back in the AM station, but I'm not confident that Urei even made mics.. Was so long ago."<<<<
__________________

Chris, was that a Uher dynamic shotgun mic? Look at the bottom of the consignment page.

K. Forman · August 9th, 2004, 10:08 PM

I can't say much about mics, but I like my ATR55. At $60, I love it :)

Bryan Beasleigh · August 9th, 2004, 10:32 PM

I haven't tried that one ;-)

Chris L. Gray · August 9th, 2004, 11:09 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Bryan Beasleigh :Chris, was that a Uher dynamic shotgun mic? Look at the bottom of the consignment page. -->>>

Nah, that's not it.. it was a studio microphone and for the life of me I can't remember the name... I'm sure the mic dates back mid-80s or earlier.. thick, round, brownish metal with ribs.. had a roll off.. can't tink of it, but can picture it.

A few of the announcers were nuts about it. I keep thinking a name with U.. UV.. not EV.. *arrgggh*

Mark Fry · August 10th, 2004, 07:36 AM

About 5 years ago, I bought a Sennheiser MKE300 (about £120 in UK) on the recommendation of a friend. It was a huge improvement over my S-VHS camera's built-in mics and the various cheap "directional" mics I'd used before. When I moved up to my current XM1, I kept the MKE300, and it's only since I began to read web-boards like this one that I've begun to wonder whether I might improve my video sound if I got a better mic...

The MKE300 sounds like a proper microphone (to me), it is light-weight and is designed for use on a camera hot-shoe socket. Off-axis rejection and wind-noise supression seem quite acceptable to me, but I've no experience of other mics to compare it to. I know it's unbalanced, but that's OK because most cameras only have unbalanced 3.5mm jack-sockets, and the lead is less than a foot long. The need for a BeechTek box, or similar, adds cost, weight and complexity to the use of balanced microphones with "ordinary" cameras.

I have one complaint about the MKE300. Although it is clearly intended to be mounted on a hot-shoe, it picks up a lot of mechanical noise from the camera. You'd think they'd isolate the sensitive bits rather better... I have found a way of mounting it in a Beyer EA86 shock-mount, by replacing the battery cap with a 4" length of plastic pipe (thanks to Alan Craven for the idea).

I've not yet found any comparisons with the "proper" mics you've been discussing, which is a shame, because it would provide a useful control. (I have listened to some of Bryan & Matt's AT4073a, ME66, etc. comparisons.) Obviously, the other mics being discussed here are general purpose, and can be used in other ways besides mounted on the camera. However, it seems to me that another microphone must be demonstrably better than the MKE300, either in terms of sound quality or value for money, to be used as a dedicated on-camera microphone. I suppose it's a bit like the situation with on-stage vocal mics - they need something extra to compete with the Shure SM58...

What about Beyer Dynamic mics? I've seen two models in mail-order catalogues recently: MCE86 and MCE87, in various versions (battery and/or phantom power and different mountings). At around £200 - £300, are they expensive equivalents of the MKE300, or cheaper alternatives to the ubiquitous K6+ME66?

Bryan - I know you're asking mostly about mics for dialogue, and for indoor use. My main subject is steam trains, so it's all outdoors, at distances of between 20 feet and half a mile, and a rather different sort of sound from voices (I guess). What makes a microphone more suitable for use indoors rather than out? What makes it more suitable for voice rather than music or more "ambient" sounds? I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere else already, but I've not come across it yet, so please point me in the right direction...

Many thanks.

Matt Gettemeier · August 10th, 2004, 08:03 AM

Every now and then I see a post in favor of the ATR55... I cut my teeth on one of those and later added another one, for stereo recording. That's one way to improve your in-cam sound... If you can get ANY mic close to the source then you'll get a huge improvement over simply relying on the internal cam mics... so in that respect it's definitely an improvement... but once you try a good mic you'll see what all the enthusiasm is about... what the 55 lacks is reach, frequency response, good polar pattern, and detail... what it has is self noise. If you're on a low budget and you don't have phantom power available then it's better then just using the onboard mics... but only by closing the distance to the speaker's mouth... that's about it.

Bryan Beasleigh · August 10th, 2004, 08:14 AM

I'm off to see the wizard for a gnu knee so keep this thread running till i get back.

TTFN
beas

Matt Gettemeier · August 10th, 2004, 08:25 AM

Good Luck Beas... you'll be in our hearts and ears until you get back... It's that damn "Donald Sutherland" voice!

Well the good thing is you can do voice-overs from a chair.

Seriously... heal quick and may your pain be slight.

Richard Maloney · August 10th, 2004, 09:16 AM

Yes, hope your catching chickens by hand in no time. Thanks for the good advice and support.

Chris L. Gray · August 10th, 2004, 10:38 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Bryan Beasleigh : I'm off to see the wizard for a gnu knee so keep this thread running till i get back.

TTFN
beas -->>>

Wish you the best, Bryan. Thanks for all of your help. Hopefully, I'll be comfortable with my NT3 once you're back. :]

Jacques Mersereau · August 10th, 2004, 05:00 PM

Good luck Bryan! Have a quick and "glad I did it" recovery!!!

Christi sends her best wishes too!

Bob Schneider · August 10th, 2004, 08:56 PM

Hi Chris,

If I may ask, what are you using this gear for? By the way, I am in your area sort of, (western burbs).

Bob

Jose di Cani · November 3rd, 2004, 02:06 PM

I use a mxl 990 condensor mic for guitar recording and vocals recordings and it sounds really sweat and profesional. It has been compared with the 800 dollar mics, so it must be good. ANy rode is good. They are known to be profesional and great working mics. THe rode NT is the most used mic in studios nowadays. The nta is the newer version and is really the best for vocals. The nt3 hs batteries so it is more portable and records nice stuff but with a little bit less bass.

August 9th, 2004, 06:27 PM	#16
Chris L. Gray Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: chicago Posts: 73	<<<-- Originally posted by Bryan Beasleigh : How about the original topic. Back to the topic. Quality dialog mics -->>> Sorry can't contribute much, there. But I used to think that our old EV mic was the sh*t back in the late 80s for radio voiceover/production stuff we did. I could have sworn that we had a very old Urei mic back in the AM station, but I'm not confident that Urei even made mics.. Was so long ago. __________________ ..... keep it deep4life.

August 9th, 2004, 07:48 PM	#17
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	Apparently the Neuman KMR81 and 82 are very warm dialog shotguns and in the same league as the other high end. My limited exposure to the short capsule cardoids and hypers (KMR184/185) haven't impressed me much at all. I've heard that my reaction is shared by others. (they're apparently fine for music) I'd love to be able to sit in a quiet room and tinker with the AKG Blue Line. I almost ordered one but chcickened out at the last minute. the talk always goes back to the big ones and the list from the top down is Hypers Schoeps MK41 Senn MKH50 Sanken CS1 (not really a hyper but still great for the purpose) AT 4053 No experience dammit! CK93 I do like the Blue line Hyper but i'm not sure where to put this in the list. It's modular and it can also be run off of an active cable and mounted on a swivel joint. It's also a bayonet mount. Oktava MCO12 What can I say, when it's on it's on. it can give mics costing 10 times as much a run. Rode NT3 There only seems to be one guy who loves the ME64 so i wouldn't take his pronouncement as Gospel. LISTEN FOR YOURSELF That's why Matt and I have set up mic demos Shotguns (Short) MKH60 / MKH416 / Sanken CS-3 / Neumann KMR81/CK69 (all great and a coupla bucks from each other) No sense in even rating them as it's all personal taste. I like the MKH60, 416 and CK69 in no order. These mics cost from $1000 (416) to $1350 MK41. The neumanns and CS-3 are $1200 - $1300 and the MKH 60 has come down to $1430 Sanken CS-1 (at $750 an amazing mic. has no rear lobe to speak of and kickass rejection. Works like a hyper for interior dialog as well) AT 4073 (It's less than half the price of the big boys yet able to still be counted seriously) Me66/AT897 The ME66 is a good base mic with high output. The AT is a very good base mic with lower output. I'm partial to the AT sound. AT835b Still a really good mic and only $235 __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ".......holy smokin rubber lips...what a ride!"

August 9th, 2004, 09:10 PM	#18
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	<<< "I could have sworn that we had a very old Urei mic back in the AM station, but I'm not confident that Urei even made mics.. Was so long ago."<<<< __________________ Chris, was that a Uher dynamic shotgun mic? Look at the bottom of the consignment page. __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ".......holy smokin rubber lips...what a ride!"

August 9th, 2004, 10:08 PM	#19
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	I can't say much about mics, but I like my ATR55. At $60, I love it :) __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us

August 9th, 2004, 10:32 PM	#20
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	I haven't tried that one ;-) __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ".......holy smokin rubber lips...what a ride!"

August 9th, 2004, 11:09 PM	#21
Chris L. Gray Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: chicago Posts: 73	<<<-- Originally posted by Bryan Beasleigh :Chris, was that a Uher dynamic shotgun mic? Look at the bottom of the consignment page. -->>> Nah, that's not it.. it was a studio microphone and for the life of me I can't remember the name... I'm sure the mic dates back mid-80s or earlier.. thick, round, brownish metal with ribs.. had a roll off.. can't tink of it, but can picture it. A few of the announcers were nuts about it. I keep thinking a name with U.. UV.. not EV.. arrgggh __________________ ..... keep it deep4life.

August 10th, 2004, 07:36 AM	#22
Mark Fry Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 425	Coming up from below the salt... About 5 years ago, I bought a Sennheiser MKE300 (about £120 in UK) on the recommendation of a friend. It was a huge improvement over my S-VHS camera's built-in mics and the various cheap "directional" mics I'd used before. When I moved up to my current XM1, I kept the MKE300, and it's only since I began to read web-boards like this one that I've begun to wonder whether I might improve my video sound if I got a better mic... The MKE300 sounds like a proper microphone (to me), it is light-weight and is designed for use on a camera hot-shoe socket. Off-axis rejection and wind-noise supression seem quite acceptable to me, but I've no experience of other mics to compare it to. I know it's unbalanced, but that's OK because most cameras only have unbalanced 3.5mm jack-sockets, and the lead is less than a foot long. The need for a BeechTek box, or similar, adds cost, weight and complexity to the use of balanced microphones with "ordinary" cameras. I have one complaint about the MKE300. Although it is clearly intended to be mounted on a hot-shoe, it picks up a lot of mechanical noise from the camera. You'd think they'd isolate the sensitive bits rather better... I have found a way of mounting it in a Beyer EA86 shock-mount, by replacing the battery cap with a 4" length of plastic pipe (thanks to Alan Craven for the idea). I've not yet found any comparisons with the "proper" mics you've been discussing, which is a shame, because it would provide a useful control. (I have listened to some of Bryan & Matt's AT4073a, ME66, etc. comparisons.) Obviously, the other mics being discussed here are general purpose, and can be used in other ways besides mounted on the camera. However, it seems to me that another microphone must be demonstrably better than the MKE300, either in terms of sound quality or value for money, to be used as a dedicated on-camera microphone. I suppose it's a bit like the situation with on-stage vocal mics - they need something extra to compete with the Shure SM58... What about Beyer Dynamic mics? I've seen two models in mail-order catalogues recently: MCE86 and MCE87, in various versions (battery and/or phantom power and different mountings). At around £200 - £300, are they expensive equivalents of the MKE300, or cheaper alternatives to the ubiquitous K6+ME66? Bryan - I know you're asking mostly about mics for dialogue, and for indoor use. My main subject is steam trains, so it's all outdoors, at distances of between 20 feet and half a mile, and a rather different sort of sound from voices (I guess). What makes a microphone more suitable for use indoors rather than out? What makes it more suitable for voice rather than music or more "ambient" sounds? I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere else already, but I've not come across it yet, so please point me in the right direction... Many thanks. __________________ Steam Age Pictures - videos in aid of railway preservation societies.

August 10th, 2004, 08:03 AM	#23
Matt Gettemeier Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 936	Every now and then I see a post in favor of the ATR55... I cut my teeth on one of those and later added another one, for stereo recording. That's one way to improve your in-cam sound... If you can get ANY mic close to the source then you'll get a huge improvement over simply relying on the internal cam mics... so in that respect it's definitely an improvement... but once you try a good mic you'll see what all the enthusiasm is about... what the 55 lacks is reach, frequency response, good polar pattern, and detail... what it has is self noise. If you're on a low budget and you don't have phantom power available then it's better then just using the onboard mics... but only by closing the distance to the speaker's mouth... that's about it.

August 10th, 2004, 08:14 AM	#24
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	I'm off to see the wizard for a gnu knee so keep this thread running till i get back. TTFN beas __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ".......holy smokin rubber lips...what a ride!"

August 10th, 2004, 08:25 AM	#25
Matt Gettemeier Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 936	Good Luck Beas... you'll be in our hearts and ears until you get back... It's that damn "Donald Sutherland" voice! Well the good thing is you can do voice-overs from a chair. Seriously... heal quick and may your pain be slight.

August 10th, 2004, 09:16 AM	#26
Richard Maloney Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 90	Yes, hope your catching chickens by hand in no time. Thanks for the good advice and support.

August 10th, 2004, 10:38 AM	#27
Chris L. Gray Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: chicago Posts: 73	<<<-- Originally posted by Bryan Beasleigh : I'm off to see the wizard for a gnu knee so keep this thread running till i get back. TTFN beas -->>> Wish you the best, Bryan. Thanks for all of your help. Hopefully, I'll be comfortable with my NT3 once you're back. :] __________________ ..... keep it deep4life.

August 10th, 2004, 05:00 PM	#28
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	Good luck Bryan! Have a quick and "glad I did it" recovery!!! Christi sends her best wishes too! __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager

August 10th, 2004, 08:56 PM	#29
Bob Schneider Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Chicago area Posts: 98	Hi Chris, If I may ask, what are you using this gear for? By the way, I am in your area sort of, (western burbs). Bob

November 3rd, 2004, 02:06 PM	#30
Jose di Cani Major Player Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Holland, Europe Posts: 214	I use a mxl 990 condensor mic for guitar recording and vocals recordings and it sounds really sweat and profesional. It has been compared with the 800 dollar mics, so it must be good. ANy rode is good. They are known to be profesional and great working mics. THe rode NT is the most used mic in studios nowadays. The nta is the newer version and is really the best for vocals. The nt3 hs batteries so it is more portable and records nice stuff but with a little bit less bass.