15' XLR to Mini too far? at DVinfo.net

Chris Thomas · August 3rd, 2004, 09:13 PM

I have a SGM-1X that I use an XLR to Mini 1' cable with on my GL2, no BeachTek or MA-300, and I am quite pleased with the sound, I haven't experienced a better mic or used it with an adaptor, so I can't compare, but this setup suits my needs!

I have an event that I would like to use a handheld for a small portion, that I will be borrowing from a friend who is an amateur singer, and currently uses the mic with a 15' XLR to 1/4" plug into a guitar amp of some sort. Can I capture decent sound out of it by just adding a 1/4" to mini on the end and plugging it into the cam, or will that just be problems waiting to happen?

-Chris

Bryan Beasleigh · August 3rd, 2004, 09:33 PM

You have 2 issues:

The longer the unbalanced cable the greater the chance for interference. 15 ft is pushing the envelope.

The lower the signal strength, the greater the chance of interference, The SGM1X has an output sensitivety of -41 db
Most hand mics are dynamics and have an output sensitivety of somewhere around -55 db. The output of the dynamic will be less than 25% of the Azden shotgun.

Try it and see is the only real answer. This could be your lucky day.

Where in Canada, Eh!

Chris Thomas · August 3rd, 2004, 09:50 PM

Unfortunately I am only getting the mic the day before the event, which does not leave much time should the scenario not work, and I need to scramble for a solution. I guess worst case I will use the 1X on the camera, and hope I can find a quite corner for to aim it into.

From Burlington ON... Updated my profile :)

Aaron Koolen · August 3rd, 2004, 09:59 PM

I don't have any direct experience with this, but if I were you, try and hire a Beachteck or something. Can't cost more than a few bucks. That way you'll be safe and if you get one with preamps even better!

Even if you use the Beachtek just for the locking XLR so some idiot doesn't trip over your cord and yank out the sound cable!

Aaron

Jay Massengill · August 3rd, 2004, 10:11 PM

When adapting to fragile mini jacks I find it puts less strain on the jack to use a short cable that has the correct connectors on each end rather than a regular adapter placed on the end of a heavier cable. Of course that makes the cable run a little longer and some times it's harder to find a cable with the proper connections.
If you only have the adapter, try and tape the heavy cable to a tripod leg so you have a short slack section that won't strain the input connector. You can also loop the heavy cable through the camera's handle if you are doing quick setups.

Bryan Beasleigh · August 3rd, 2004, 11:40 PM

Not only do I tie the cable off but the mini is always a right angled, molded plug. I then velcro the end of the plug to the handle.

Chris Thomas · August 4th, 2004, 10:23 AM

Not that I am too cheap to rent a beachtek, or finally cough up the cash to buy some sort of XLR adaptor, but I am trying to work with what I have.

What about the mic on a 15' XLR Female to male, then the 1' XLR to mini? Would that be just as bad? Or is the problem not the cable itself, but the transition of going from XLR to mini?

Jay Massengill · August 4th, 2004, 01:08 PM

If the connection is unbalanced at any point, then the entire run is unbalanced. However it is beneficial to use the standard good quality XLR cabling for the longest part of the run. That usually does give you some shielding benefits versus cheaper unbalanced cable.

Michael Wisniewski · August 5th, 2004, 06:13 PM

I've been using the cable setup you're describing for about 3 months and am happy with it. Mostly recording dialogue and ambient sounds for amateur movies. Just finished recording about 2 hours of indoor & outdoor interviews all over the New York landscape for a public service advertisement and it worked like a champ. My team and the customer are pleased with the quality of the recordings.

But! it's kinda hard for me to say how well this setup would work close to a stage with a lot electrical equipment.

My setup is:
1. Hosa Stereo Mini Male Angeled to 2 3-pin XLR Female Y-Cable

2. NT3 Rode mic with cheap 15' XLR cable - have not experienced any type of interference with this mic on this setup. Used with an AT8415 Shock Mount with pistol grip/boom.

3. ATR35s dynamic wired lav - this mic works well directly connected to the cam, but it does incur a bit of noise when I use it with the HOSA XLR adapter. Plus, the cable is 20' long. Two of these with a regular stereo mini Y-Cable gets decent sound.

August 3rd, 2004, 09:13 PM	#1
Chris Thomas Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Burlington ON, Canada Posts: 118	15' XLR to Mini too far? I have a SGM-1X that I use an XLR to Mini 1' cable with on my GL2, no BeachTek or MA-300, and I am quite pleased with the sound, I haven't experienced a better mic or used it with an adaptor, so I can't compare, but this setup suits my needs! I have an event that I would like to use a handheld for a small portion, that I will be borrowing from a friend who is an amateur singer, and currently uses the mic with a 15' XLR to 1/4" plug into a guitar amp of some sort. Can I capture decent sound out of it by just adding a 1/4" to mini on the end and plugging it into the cam, or will that just be problems waiting to happen? -Chris

August 3rd, 2004, 09:33 PM	#2
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	You have 2 issues: The longer the unbalanced cable the greater the chance for interference. 15 ft is pushing the envelope. The lower the signal strength, the greater the chance of interference, The SGM1X has an output sensitivety of -41 db Most hand mics are dynamics and have an output sensitivety of somewhere around -55 db. The output of the dynamic will be less than 25% of the Azden shotgun. Try it and see is the only real answer. This could be your lucky day. Where in Canada, Eh! __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ".......holy smokin rubber lips...what a ride!"

August 3rd, 2004, 09:59 PM	#4
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	I don't have any direct experience with this, but if I were you, try and hire a Beachteck or something. Can't cost more than a few bucks. That way you'll be safe and if you get one with preamps even better! Even if you use the Beachtek just for the locking XLR so some idiot doesn't trip over your cord and yank out the sound cable! Aaron __________________ My Website Meat Free Media

August 3rd, 2004, 11:40 PM	#6
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	Not only do I tie the cable off but the mini is always a right angled, molded plug. I then velcro the end of the plug to the handle. __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ".......holy smokin rubber lips...what a ride!"

August 3rd, 2004, 09:50 PM	#3
Chris Thomas Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Burlington ON, Canada Posts: 118	Unfortunately I am only getting the mic the day before the event, which does not leave much time should the scenario not work, and I need to scramble for a solution. I guess worst case I will use the 1X on the camera, and hope I can find a quite corner for to aim it into. From Burlington ON... Updated my profile :)

August 3rd, 2004, 10:11 PM	#5
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	When adapting to fragile mini jacks I find it puts less strain on the jack to use a short cable that has the correct connectors on each end rather than a regular adapter placed on the end of a heavier cable. Of course that makes the cable run a little longer and some times it's harder to find a cable with the proper connections. If you only have the adapter, try and tape the heavy cable to a tripod leg so you have a short slack section that won't strain the input connector. You can also loop the heavy cable through the camera's handle if you are doing quick setups.

August 4th, 2004, 10:23 AM	#7
Chris Thomas Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Burlington ON, Canada Posts: 118	Not that I am too cheap to rent a beachtek, or finally cough up the cash to buy some sort of XLR adaptor, but I am trying to work with what I have. What about the mic on a 15' XLR Female to male, then the 1' XLR to mini? Would that be just as bad? Or is the problem not the cable itself, but the transition of going from XLR to mini?

August 4th, 2004, 01:08 PM	#8
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	If the connection is unbalanced at any point, then the entire run is unbalanced. However it is beneficial to use the standard good quality XLR cabling for the longest part of the run. That usually does give you some shielding benefits versus cheaper unbalanced cable.

August 5th, 2004, 06:13 PM	#9
Michael Wisniewski Wrangler Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Makati, Metro Manila Posts: 2,706 Images: 32	I've been using the cable setup you're describing for about 3 months and am happy with it. Mostly recording dialogue and ambient sounds for amateur movies. Just finished recording about 2 hours of indoor & outdoor interviews all over the New York landscape for a public service advertisement and it worked like a champ. My team and the customer are pleased with the quality of the recordings. But! it's kinda hard for me to say how well this setup would work close to a stage with a lot electrical equipment. My setup is: 1. Hosa Stereo Mini Male Angeled to 2 3-pin XLR Female Y-Cable 2. NT3 Rode mic with cheap 15' XLR cable - have not experienced any type of interference with this mic on this setup. Used with an AT8415 Shock Mount with pistol grip/boom. 3. ATR35s dynamic wired lav - this mic works well directly connected to the cam, but it does incur a bit of noise when I use it with the HOSA XLR adapter. Plus, the cable is 20' long. Two of these with a regular stereo mini Y-Cable gets decent sound.