The art of noise. at DVinfo.net

Chris Thomas · July 18th, 2004, 03:14 PM

So I coughed up the cash, and bought all the tools over the past couple of months, am I a videographer yet?? Guess not, but working on it, with a little help from you guys.

GL2
2 945 batteries
Azden SGM-1X & XLR to Mini cable
Canon VL10 video light (with a home built diffuser)
NF810 Mini Disc recorder & el cheapo radio shack lav. (Sounds good to me though!)
055CL legs with a 501 head
Premiere 6.5 (had this one a while)
Sound Forge 7 (I am totally new to anything audio related!)
Noise Reduction 2.0

Now I just need to figure out how to work it all...

I filmed a few weddings for friends on consumer equipment over the past couple of years, put together some video's, got referral after referral, and finally decided to get into it on a more serious level. With 2 weddings complete on the new equipment, and 3 more to go this summer, new experiences occur each and every day in pre, production, and post.

So what about this audio business? When do I normalize the audio, before the edit, or after the final cut? What about noise reduction, the last wedding has some fairly heavy fan noise during the speeches, do I attempt to remove that before the edit? also what settings are best in the Noise Reduction window? Scan and use defaults, or tinker with the sliders, which mean almost nothing to me right now? Also, with the vows, the mic is on the groom, so the voice is obviously loudest, the bride and minister are often considerably quieter. Is there an easy way to stabilize the audio level of each voice to bring a consistent volume? Does normalizing do that, or to I adjust the level of that section in premiere to the best of my abilities?

Honestly many of the audio terms are greek to me, and so are the settings, but premiere was the same a few years back and it was only through playing around, and reading forums that I became fluent.

I plan on getting a book on the audio subject, but thought I might be able to get a few pointers here first.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · July 18th, 2004, 04:11 PM

So what about this audio business? When do I normalize the audio, before the edit, or after the final cut?
If you're gonna normalize, do it first.
What about noise reduction, the last wedding has some fairly heavy fan noise during the speeches, do I attempt to remove that before the edit?
after the edit
also what settings are best in the Noise Reduction window? Scan and use defaults, or tinker with the sliders, which mean almost nothing to me right now?
this is ENTIRELY project or room dependent. Trying to answer that in this context is simply impossible.
Also, with the vows, the mic is on the groom, so the voice is obviously loudest, the bride and minister are often considerably quieter.
this is due in part to the mic you chose. however, this would also occur with many mics. The bigger question is how you deal with it in post. Compression or volume envelopes is the normal method of getting this more balanced.
Is there an easy way to stabilize the audio level of each voice to bring a consistent volume?
Does normalizing do that, or to I adjust the level of that section in premiere to the best of my abilities?
I'd use Sound Forge for this. The resampling qualities in Premiere are just slightly above 'suck.'

Chris Thomas · July 18th, 2004, 07:06 PM

Unfortunately the mic choice was largely based on budget. I tried to get the most bang for the buck on the original startup (for ALL the equipment & software) and after reading many forums thought this might be a good 'starter setup'. I do plan to make additions and upgrades as time goes on and I regain control of the finances!

Would a better lav really make the brides volume closer to the grooms volume who is wearing the mic? How do I go about compression or volume envelopes to balance the level? Any tips?

I did realize quickly the limitations of premiere with respect to audio, and plan to use Sound forge in the future, any comments on the technique to use to adjust the levels as described? Will normalizing it do the trick, or is it another feature all together?

David Ennis · July 18th, 2004, 07:29 PM

Chris, I gather that you use the adaptor cable to plug the SGM-1X right into the GL2 mic input. My theory is that that would be a better arrangement for the SGM then going through a mixer or adaptor that has 200 ohm XLR inputs.

For instance, you'll notice that according to his recent post on this board, Jeff Toogood is not happy with the signal level he gets with the SGM-1X going through Canon's MA300 XLR adaptor. Are you happy with the signal level you're getting your way?

--
Fred

Chris Thomas · July 18th, 2004, 08:04 PM

If I had something to compare it too I would let you know!

As mentioned, I am new to the whole thing, particularly the audio piece, and it was only after 1 shoot with the on board mic that I decided that it would not suffice, and bought the Azden. It is certainly MUCH better than before, and way better from last years days with the handicam and ECM-HS1 mic, but I have not had the luxury to compare it to anything else. The levels seem fine to work with it, I record one chanel at around 75% on the gain control, and the other around 30% of the volume.

Any advice on a good mixer at an even better price?

David Ennis · July 18th, 2004, 08:11 PM

Could you explain that last sentence a bit? Do you mean the on-board is in one channel and the SGM-1X in the other? If so, which is at 75% and which is at 30%?

Sorry, my experience is no better than yours; less even, since I don't have any add on mic for my GL2 yet.

--
Fred

Chris Thomas · July 18th, 2004, 08:34 PM

The XLR to mini produces a 2 chanel MONO output, so the SGM-1X mono signal is sent to the cam on both the left and right channel, so I simply dial the GL2's gains so the right channel is at about 3/4 max and the left is at about 1/3 on the dial. Both channels are supplied by the SGM-1X. I then use a minidisc recorder on the groom, and sync that in post.

Chris Thomas · August 12th, 2004, 12:27 PM

Douglas I just discoverd your article on Noise reduction after traveling through dozens of sites and tutorials. Found it very helpful! Thanks!

July 18th, 2004, 03:14 PM	#1
Chris Thomas Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Burlington ON, Canada Posts: 118	The art of noise. So I coughed up the cash, and bought all the tools over the past couple of months, am I a videographer yet?? Guess not, but working on it, with a little help from you guys. GL2 2 945 batteries Azden SGM-1X & XLR to Mini cable Canon VL10 video light (with a home built diffuser) NF810 Mini Disc recorder & el cheapo radio shack lav. (Sounds good to me though!) 055CL legs with a 501 head Premiere 6.5 (had this one a while) Sound Forge 7 (I am totally new to anything audio related!) Noise Reduction 2.0 Now I just need to figure out how to work it all... I filmed a few weddings for friends on consumer equipment over the past couple of years, put together some video's, got referral after referral, and finally decided to get into it on a more serious level. With 2 weddings complete on the new equipment, and 3 more to go this summer, new experiences occur each and every day in pre, production, and post. So what about this audio business? When do I normalize the audio, before the edit, or after the final cut? What about noise reduction, the last wedding has some fairly heavy fan noise during the speeches, do I attempt to remove that before the edit? also what settings are best in the Noise Reduction window? Scan and use defaults, or tinker with the sliders, which mean almost nothing to me right now? Also, with the vows, the mic is on the groom, so the voice is obviously loudest, the bride and minister are often considerably quieter. Is there an easy way to stabilize the audio level of each voice to bring a consistent volume? Does normalizing do that, or to I adjust the level of that section in premiere to the best of my abilities? Honestly many of the audio terms are greek to me, and so are the settings, but premiere was the same a few years back and it was only through playing around, and reading forums that I became fluent. I plan on getting a book on the audio subject, but thought I might be able to get a few pointers here first.

July 18th, 2004, 04:11 PM	#2
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Re: The art of noise. So what about this audio business? When do I normalize the audio, before the edit, or after the final cut? If you're gonna normalize, do it first. What about noise reduction, the last wedding has some fairly heavy fan noise during the speeches, do I attempt to remove that before the edit? after the edit also what settings are best in the Noise Reduction window? Scan and use defaults, or tinker with the sliders, which mean almost nothing to me right now? this is ENTIRELY project or room dependent. Trying to answer that in this context is simply impossible. Also, with the vows, the mic is on the groom, so the voice is obviously loudest, the bride and minister are often considerably quieter. this is due in part to the mic you chose. however, this would also occur with many mics. The bigger question is how you deal with it in post. Compression or volume envelopes is the normal method of getting this more balanced. Is there an easy way to stabilize the audio level of each voice to bring a consistent volume? Does normalizing do that, or to I adjust the level of that section in premiere to the best of my abilities? I'd use Sound Forge for this. The resampling qualities in Premiere are just slightly above 'suck.' __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

July 18th, 2004, 07:29 PM	#4
David Ennis Fred Retread Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Hartford, CT Posts: 1,227	SGm-1X signal level Chris, I gather that you use the adaptor cable to plug the SGM-1X right into the GL2 mic input. My theory is that that would be a better arrangement for the SGM then going through a mixer or adaptor that has 200 ohm XLR inputs. For instance, you'll notice that according to his recent post on this board, Jeff Toogood is not happy with the signal level he gets with the SGM-1X going through Canon's MA300 XLR adaptor. Are you happy with the signal level you're getting your way? -- Fred __________________ "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence..." - Calvin Coolidge "My brain is wired to want to know how other things are wired." - Me

July 18th, 2004, 08:11 PM	#6
David Ennis Fred Retread Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Hartford, CT Posts: 1,227	Could you explain that last sentence a bit? Do you mean the on-board is in one channel and the SGM-1X in the other? If so, which is at 75% and which is at 30%? Sorry, my experience is no better than yours; less even, since I don't have any add on mic for my GL2 yet. -- Fred __________________ "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence..." - Calvin Coolidge "My brain is wired to want to know how other things are wired." - Me

July 18th, 2004, 07:06 PM	#3
Chris Thomas Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Burlington ON, Canada Posts: 118	Unfortunately the mic choice was largely based on budget. I tried to get the most bang for the buck on the original startup (for ALL the equipment & software) and after reading many forums thought this might be a good 'starter setup'. I do plan to make additions and upgrades as time goes on and I regain control of the finances! Would a better lav really make the brides volume closer to the grooms volume who is wearing the mic? How do I go about compression or volume envelopes to balance the level? Any tips? I did realize quickly the limitations of premiere with respect to audio, and plan to use Sound forge in the future, any comments on the technique to use to adjust the levels as described? Will normalizing it do the trick, or is it another feature all together?

July 18th, 2004, 08:04 PM	#5
Chris Thomas Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Burlington ON, Canada Posts: 118	If I had something to compare it too I would let you know! As mentioned, I am new to the whole thing, particularly the audio piece, and it was only after 1 shoot with the on board mic that I decided that it would not suffice, and bought the Azden. It is certainly MUCH better than before, and way better from last years days with the handicam and ECM-HS1 mic, but I have not had the luxury to compare it to anything else. The levels seem fine to work with it, I record one chanel at around 75% on the gain control, and the other around 30% of the volume. Any advice on a good mixer at an even better price?

July 18th, 2004, 08:34 PM	#7
Chris Thomas Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Burlington ON, Canada Posts: 118	The XLR to mini produces a 2 chanel MONO output, so the SGM-1X mono signal is sent to the cam on both the left and right channel, so I simply dial the GL2's gains so the right channel is at about 3/4 max and the left is at about 1/3 on the dial. Both channels are supplied by the SGM-1X. I then use a minidisc recorder on the groom, and sync that in post.

August 12th, 2004, 12:27 PM	#8
Chris Thomas Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Burlington ON, Canada Posts: 118	Douglas I just discoverd your article on Noise reduction after traveling through dozens of sites and tutorials. Found it very helpful! Thanks!