Effective but affordable wind protection at DVinfo.net

Ralf Strandell · July 17th, 2004, 01:59 AM

Hi,

I'm going to shoot some video outdoors on Iceland. It's in the middle of the Atlantic ocean and there are practically no trees there. I will do some shooting on a mountain and - possibly even worse - in a valley (wind tunnel effect?). So it'll be windy.

Thus I'll need some effective windprotection for the Sony PDX10 camcorders shotgun mic ( ECM-NV1 ). I believe that same mic is beeing used for PD150 and PD170, too.

The Lightwave Miniscreen + Minisock looks promising, but it's a bit expensive. I could also choose their Equalizer, but then I'm stuck with the long fur without the option of using lighter protection like the MiniWindmaster cover.

Questions

- Are there cheaper alternatives to Lightwaves products that would be almost as good?

- Which exact model fits on the PDX10s mic?

- Where can I order them online?

- I fear that a 25mm fur will be visible in the footage. If so, what's the best alternative to the fur?

Don Berube · July 17th, 2004, 07:00 AM

Maybe you could get a PoleCat and cut down the back end of it to make it fit onto the ECM-NV1 as needed.
http://www.remoteaudio.com/polecat.htm

There is really no other alternative as effective as fake fur for preventing audible wind noise in extreme windy conditions. Check out what Fred Ginsburg, CAS has to say regarding windscreens at http://www.equipmentemporium.com/windscre1.htm.

- don

Jeff Toogood · July 17th, 2004, 08:39 AM

What about the Rycote Mini-windjammer that is designed to go over the foam windscreen?

I have one and it seems to do a pretty decent job for the money.

Don Berube · July 17th, 2004, 09:08 AM

Hi Jeff,

Of course, Rycote products are excellent. But they are also out of Ralf's budget. If you re-read Ralf's post, Ralf states that the Lightwave product is "too expensive" for him... Knowing what the Lightwave products cost, Ralf's post basically can be translated into "I'm looking for a solution well under $100"... The PoleCat is about $68 - that is why I suggested it. No sense in suggesting a solution which Ralf clearly cannot afford.

- don

Jeff Toogood · July 17th, 2004, 09:52 AM

Maybe we are talking about something different. I just bought a Rycote Mini-windjammer that fits over my ME66's foam windscreen for $55 Canadian.

I think it was the special 190.

Jay Massengill · July 17th, 2004, 10:32 AM

I have no idea how well this device works, I'm just passing on a lower-cost furry cover that I've seen online-

http://www.markertek.com/SearchProduct.asp?item=MUFF%2D1&off=37

Ralf Strandell · July 18th, 2004, 12:35 AM

Well, the Rycote might not be too expensive. Let me explain what I consider expensive.

The Lightwave Miniscreen costs $161 and a MiniSock cover for it costs $46. A fur for the Miniscreen costs $103. If the fur doesn't stay out of picture, I've lost its price, $103. Plus, I might need to get another fur that does stay out of the picture. More cost.

If I upgrade to a Sennheiser/AudioTechnica short shotgun later this year and the windscreen does not fit it, or the Lightwave Minimount, then I have lost the whole price of the windscreen, $207 - $310.

If the windscreen is ineffective, I have lost its whole price, whatever it is.

My primary concern is to find a windscreen that offers reasonably good sound quality together with effective wind protection, fits the Lightwave Minimount, fits on most short shotguns from Sennheiser and/or AudioTechnica and/or AKG. It should also stay out of picture.

The Rycote Mini Windjammer is an interesting option beeing less mic model dependant than all the Lightwave Miniscreen models, but does is stay of of picture with the PDX10? And with a 0.6 wideangle? How many short shotguns fits it on? Is is even close as good as the Lighwave?

Bryan Beasleigh · July 18th, 2004, 01:18 AM

If you mount the mic to a mini rover or other grip, it stays out of the pucture just fine. Mounting a shotgun to a camera hot shoe just doesn't make sense to me, but that's just my opinion.

Ralf Strandell · July 18th, 2004, 02:07 AM

That Mini Rover sure must be effective to keep the mic out of the frame, but this time I just need something to pull over the standard mic. Something better than foam. And I need it fast.

I've asked this on the TRV950/PDX10 forum, too. Maybe someone there has used these small Rycote/Lightwave windscreens...

I need to know whether the Rycote Mini Windjammer is effective at all in high winds.

p.s. Both Rycote and Lightwave are available in the country while PoleCat would require international shipping that takes longer. Thus I favor the Rycote / Lighwave products.

Don Berube · July 18th, 2004, 07:34 AM

Hi Ralf,

I would suspect that the Rycote Mini Windjammer does a fine job. In the most extreme winds, any fur-type of wind absorber will still not be enough and you will probably hear some gusts in the audio unless you add a second stage of barrier protection over it. To answer your question on whether the Mini WindJammer will be most effective in all winds, the answer would be that it would, but you may hear some gusts in the most extreme of winds - but then again, this would be the case with the Lightwave Equalizer or PoleCat. To get rid of all of the most extreme winds, you'd have to add a second, perhaps third layer of barrier portection over the mic. Probably not possible without first taking the mic off the camera and mounting it on a boom or Mini Rover.

What other hypercardioid mics do you want to use it with? Remember, not all of the brands share the same diameter or length. You will always inevitably have to buy again if you change form factor.

Most all seasoned sound recordists will agree that Rycote makes the best stuff. Rycote has been around the longest, for decades.

Please do let us know how you make out.

- don

Patrick King · July 18th, 2004, 11:25 AM

Ralf,

I know that you asked for help in your original post about reducing wind noise on your audio, but I have a different way for you to think about it.

If you take the same protection with your microphone that we often do with our video and use the wind direction like we use sun angle, you might be OK. IF the mic is on camera (shotgun), put the wind directly at the camera operator's back. If the mic on the subject (lav or handheld), put the wind directly at the subject's back. Its an additonal constraint, but you can use it to work for you instead of against you.

And if its really that windy, you might actually want to hear a little wind buffeting in your audio, otherwise your audience is going to think the subject must be drunk for all the swaying he is doing. And if he is shouting to hear himself speak and you don't pick up any wind noise, the audience will wonder why he's shouting. Just like if you shoot video of your subject cooling off in front of an air conditioner, that's the one time you DON'T want to eliminate air conditioner sound. I think some wind noise could add to the effect of your video of a "wind tunnel effect" in the valley. Maybe?

Patrick

July 17th, 2004, 01:59 AM	#1
Ralf Strandell Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 180	Effective but affordable wind protection Hi, I'm going to shoot some video outdoors on Iceland. It's in the middle of the Atlantic ocean and there are practically no trees there. I will do some shooting on a mountain and - possibly even worse - in a valley (wind tunnel effect?). So it'll be windy. Thus I'll need some effective windprotection for the Sony PDX10 camcorders shotgun mic ( ECM-NV1 ). I believe that same mic is beeing used for PD150 and PD170, too. The Lightwave Miniscreen + Minisock looks promising, but it's a bit expensive. I could also choose their Equalizer, but then I'm stuck with the long fur without the option of using lighter protection like the MiniWindmaster cover. Questions - Are there cheaper alternatives to Lightwaves products that would be almost as good? - Which exact model fits on the PDX10s mic? - Where can I order them online? - I fear that a 25mm fur will be visible in the footage. If so, what's the best alternative to the fur?

July 17th, 2004, 07:00 AM	#2
Don Berube Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Boston, MA (travel frequently) Posts: 837	Maybe you could get a PoleCat and cut down the back end of it to make it fit onto the ECM-NV1 as needed. http://www.remoteaudio.com/polecat.htm There is really no other alternative as effective as fake fur for preventing audible wind noise in extreme windy conditions. Check out what Fred Ginsburg, CAS has to say regarding windscreens at http://www.equipmentemporium.com/windscre1.htm. - don __________________ DONALD BERUBE - noisybrain. Productions, LLC Director Of Photography/ Producer/ Consultant http://noisybrain.com/donbio.html CREATE and NETWORK with http://www.bosfcpug.org and also http://fcpugnetwork.org

July 17th, 2004, 08:39 AM	#3
Jeff Toogood Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: St.Thomas, Ontario, CANADA Posts: 428	What about the Rycote Mini-windjammer that is designed to go over the foam windscreen? I have one and it seems to do a pretty decent job for the money. __________________ Toogood Studios

July 17th, 2004, 09:08 AM	#4
Don Berube Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Boston, MA (travel frequently) Posts: 837	Hi Jeff, Of course, Rycote products are excellent. But they are also out of Ralf's budget. If you re-read Ralf's post, Ralf states that the Lightwave product is "too expensive" for him... Knowing what the Lightwave products cost, Ralf's post basically can be translated into "I'm looking for a solution well under $100"... The PoleCat is about $68 - that is why I suggested it. No sense in suggesting a solution which Ralf clearly cannot afford. - don __________________ DONALD BERUBE - noisybrain. Productions, LLC Director Of Photography/ Producer/ Consultant http://noisybrain.com/donbio.html CREATE and NETWORK with http://www.bosfcpug.org and also http://fcpugnetwork.org

July 17th, 2004, 09:52 AM	#5
Jeff Toogood Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: St.Thomas, Ontario, CANADA Posts: 428	Maybe we are talking about something different. I just bought a Rycote Mini-windjammer that fits over my ME66's foam windscreen for $55 Canadian. I think it was the special 190. __________________ Toogood Studios

July 17th, 2004, 10:32 AM	#6
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	I have no idea how well this device works, I'm just passing on a lower-cost furry cover that I've seen online- http://www.markertek.com/SearchProduct.asp?item=MUFF%2D1&off=37

July 18th, 2004, 12:35 AM	#7
Ralf Strandell Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 180	Well, the Rycote might not be too expensive. Let me explain what I consider expensive. The Lightwave Miniscreen costs $161 and a MiniSock cover for it costs $46. A fur for the Miniscreen costs $103. If the fur doesn't stay out of picture, I've lost its price, $103. Plus, I might need to get another fur that does stay out of the picture. More cost. If I upgrade to a Sennheiser/AudioTechnica short shotgun later this year and the windscreen does not fit it, or the Lightwave Minimount, then I have lost the whole price of the windscreen, $207 - $310. If the windscreen is ineffective, I have lost its whole price, whatever it is. My primary concern is to find a windscreen that offers reasonably good sound quality together with effective wind protection, fits the Lightwave Minimount, fits on most short shotguns from Sennheiser and/or AudioTechnica and/or AKG. It should also stay out of picture. The Rycote Mini Windjammer is an interesting option beeing less mic model dependant than all the Lightwave Miniscreen models, but does is stay of of picture with the PDX10? And with a 0.6 wideangle? How many short shotguns fits it on? Is is even close as good as the Lighwave?

July 18th, 2004, 01:18 AM	#8
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	If you mount the mic to a mini rover or other grip, it stays out of the pucture just fine. Mounting a shotgun to a camera hot shoe just doesn't make sense to me, but that's just my opinion. __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ".......holy smokin rubber lips...what a ride!"

July 18th, 2004, 02:07 AM	#9
Ralf Strandell Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 180	That Mini Rover sure must be effective to keep the mic out of the frame, but this time I just need something to pull over the standard mic. Something better than foam. And I need it fast. I've asked this on the TRV950/PDX10 forum, too. Maybe someone there has used these small Rycote/Lightwave windscreens... I need to know whether the Rycote Mini Windjammer is effective at all in high winds. p.s. Both Rycote and Lightwave are available in the country while PoleCat would require international shipping that takes longer. Thus I favor the Rycote / Lighwave products.

July 18th, 2004, 07:34 AM	#10
Don Berube Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Boston, MA (travel frequently) Posts: 837	Hi Ralf, I would suspect that the Rycote Mini Windjammer does a fine job. In the most extreme winds, any fur-type of wind absorber will still not be enough and you will probably hear some gusts in the audio unless you add a second stage of barrier protection over it. To answer your question on whether the Mini WindJammer will be most effective in *all* winds, the answer would be that it would, but you may hear some gusts in the most extreme of winds - but then again, this would be the case with the Lightwave Equalizer or PoleCat. To get rid of all of the most extreme winds, you'd have to add a second, perhaps third layer of barrier portection over the mic. Probably not possible without first taking the mic off the camera and mounting it on a boom or Mini Rover. What other hypercardioid mics do you want to use it with? Remember, not all of the brands share the same diameter or length. You will always inevitably have to buy again if you change form factor. Most all seasoned sound recordists will agree that Rycote makes the best stuff. Rycote has been around the longest, for decades. Please do let us know how you make out. - don __________________ DONALD BERUBE - noisybrain. Productions, LLC Director Of Photography/ Producer/ Consultant http://noisybrain.com/donbio.html CREATE and NETWORK with http://www.bosfcpug.org and also http://fcpugnetwork.org

July 18th, 2004, 11:25 AM	#11
Patrick King Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Enterprise, AL Posts: 857	Ralf, I know that you asked for help in your original post about reducing wind noise on your audio, but I have a different way for you to think about it. If you take the same protection with your microphone that we often do with our video and use the wind direction like we use sun angle, you might be OK. IF the mic is on camera (shotgun), put the wind directly at the camera operator's back. If the mic on the subject (lav or handheld), put the wind directly at the subject's back. Its an additonal constraint, but you can use it to work for you instead of against you. And if its really that windy, you might actually want to hear a little wind buffeting in your audio, otherwise your audience is going to think the subject must be drunk for all the swaying he is doing. And if he is shouting to hear himself speak and you don't pick up any wind noise, the audience will wonder why he's shouting. Just like if you shoot video of your subject cooling off in front of an air conditioner, that's the one time you DON'T want to eliminate air conditioner sound. I think some wind noise could add to the effect of your video of a "wind tunnel effect" in the valley. Maybe? Patrick