What equipment/program cuts it for a proffesional real sounding film score at DVinfo.net

Ben Gurvich · July 12th, 2004, 09:49 PM

(Ive manually moved this post from TOTEM) thanks Joe.

Hi all i was just watching this film equilibrium and on the commentry they talk about the soundtrack being pretty good considering it was all computer.

As a musician myself i would like to create my own scores and am wondering what software hardware is goingto give me realistic sounds. Also what sort of price range am i looking at too?

ONe of my friends who is a composer (with a degree in composition) just purchased REASON, he seems to think its quite realistic sounding samples.

Alternatively in OUATIM Rodriguez talks about his GIGASTUDIO and that looked damn expensive,

Appreciate any advicem

Cheers
Ben Gurvich

Douglas Spotted Eagle · July 12th, 2004, 10:49 PM

Soundtrack being "pretty good considering it was all computer" on the part of the person saying so is somewhat ignorant of how things have been done for the past 15 years.
Reason is good, Giga is good. VSampler is great.
What will you use for your host? Sonar, Logic, Cubase, Digital Performer?
Reason can't do it on it's own, nor can Giga. If you are in PC land, Sonar is great, so is Logic. Depends on whether you like blondes or brunettes. I like Sonar. Many like Logic. A few like Cubase.
Then you need a midi keyboard if you're gonna play music, or you can do it all with loops and manually placed samples.
You need a good sound card to monitor with.
You need a lot of RAM.
You need a lot of sample libraries
you need good softsynths
There is no 'cheap' way to do this well, but you can do acceptably well with cheap gear.
You can also use loops only, and in that event, I'd suggest Garage Band, Acid, Sonar, or Soundtrack.

Ben Gurvich · July 13th, 2004, 04:54 AM

Thanks for the info Douglas,

Basically i want to get an orchestral soundtrack, by way of midi keyboard, and samples.

If im understanding you correctly Reason is not a sequencing program, just samples. I have used fruity loops for sequencing once before but i found it a bit ridgid, I have acid and use it occasionaly and like it.

So i guess i just need the keyboard and the samples.

Oh yeah and a probably a gig of ram.

ANyway i appreciate the feedbak, i find it strange knowing a lot about computer video, but audio has seemed to pass me by, even though I am a musician.
I would love to have some decent knowledge, and record my own stuff.

It took me ages to figure out that midi is not sounds, but a triggering mechanism for any sample you have. Which, if i understand correctrlycan be wav files, midi files, or aiff etc

I guess going on this, what would be a good place to start getting orchestral sounds that i can play with and itch up or down on a keyboard?

Cheers,
Ben Gurvich

Douglas Spotted Eagle · July 13th, 2004, 07:33 AM

For me....
I'd start with the Ilio Symphonies library, and Symphonic Fields Forever. These are samples. Used in Vsampler or Giga, they rock.
Don't forget Denny Jaeger's library either. This is used on most films.
But....these ain't cheap.
Keyboard? I use an M-Audio Radium. About 150$, just midi and/or USB connection, has a small mixer for audio/midi events built in.

Ben Gurvich · July 13th, 2004, 07:49 AM

thanks ill chek some of this stuff out

Cannon Pearson · July 13th, 2004, 10:46 AM

You might look into something like Cubase SE or SL with Native Instruments Kontakt sampler.

I haven't seen any mention of an audio interface. You'll need a decent one of those. After having a couple of USB interfaces, I would stay away from those and go with a firewire or pci unit. MOTU, RME and M-audio are popular(but not the only) manufacturers.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · July 13th, 2004, 11:20 AM

By sound card, I meant an audio interface. I highly recommend anything from M-Audio that's PCI or firewire, Echo's products are great too. I avoid MOTU on the PC, but on the Mac they rule, IMO

Cannon Pearson · July 13th, 2004, 11:44 AM

Sorry Douglas, I didn't read your post closely enough.

I love my MOTU 896, but I am using it on a Mac. I seem to remember from his post in another forum that Ben is using a PC.

Rich Frankel · July 14th, 2004, 11:03 AM

as an alternate idea to sequencing software, you could check out the newest versions of finale or sibelius (my vote is sibelius and I was a long time finale user)

This is great if you truly understand composition but are perhaps not the greatest midi keyboardist alive. They're essentially notation programs, but the playback is pretty goshdarn good since the programs will read almost all of your articulation marks etc... sibelius comes bundled with a version of kontakt, that has some decent string samples and can control any midi capable software or hardware gear, so the sampling possibilities are endless.

The key with any of this is having a composer that is familiar with the instrumentation, and that doesn't mean familiar writing orchestral music if it's ultimately going to be performed by midi, it means familiar writing for midi controlled samples or synths.

Reason does have a built in sequencer, just not a particularly great one.

I prefer cubase to logic, but only because its what I used first, and so am more intimately familiar with it.

Good luck.

btw, equilibrium was a very nice movie made from what I understand relatively cheaply... and how can anyone not like a movie that has gun kata in it. :)

Joel Iwataki · July 15th, 2004, 12:21 AM

It's funny to see this thread because I'm a film music guy who stumbled onto this forum because I wanted to buy my first camcorder. You have to realize that saying you want to create orchestral filmscores to go with your films is like a composer who says I just wrote a nice piece of music - what equipment do I need to make a major motion picture to go with it? But I fully encourage you to go with your creative impulses. But don't think of orchestral soundtrack in the literal sense of 80 conservatory trained musicians playing incredibly expensive instruments being recorded by a vast array of highly developed recording equipment. But think of it as music that moved you to feel more deeply the emotions that the film is trying to express. And there are filmscores like Cliff Martinez's 'Traffic' and Clint Mansell's 'Requiem For A Dream' that do that with synth sounds just as profoundly and deeply as any Titanic James Horner orchestral phantasmagoria.
So Logic is good because you can have synths and samplers and Picture all within the same program (and is now a little ahead of MOTU). DgSpEgl is right about blnds v brnts. Check out http://www.audioforums.com/forums (Just as much of a Pandora's box as this forum). And just start making sounds to picture and don't worry too much about whether it sounds orchestral - but whether it makes you feel something. (cost range:Logic Express $299 to Hans Zimmer $1million midi studio)

July 12th, 2004, 09:49 PM	#1
Ben Gurvich Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 329	What equipment/program cuts it for a proffesional real sounding film score (Ive manually moved this post from TOTEM) thanks Joe. Hi all i was just watching this film equilibrium and on the commentry they talk about the soundtrack being pretty good considering it was all computer. As a musician myself i would like to create my own scores and am wondering what software hardware is goingto give me realistic sounds. Also what sort of price range am i looking at too? ONe of my friends who is a composer (with a degree in composition) just purchased REASON, he seems to think its quite realistic sounding samples. Alternatively in OUATIM Rodriguez talks about his GIGASTUDIO and that looked damn expensive, Appreciate any advicem Cheers Ben Gurvich

July 12th, 2004, 10:49 PM	#2
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Soundtrack being "pretty good considering it was all computer" on the part of the person saying so is somewhat ignorant of how things have been done for the past 15 years. Reason is good, Giga is good. VSampler is great. What will you use for your host? Sonar, Logic, Cubase, Digital Performer? Reason can't do it on it's own, nor can Giga. If you are in PC land, Sonar is great, so is Logic. Depends on whether you like blondes or brunettes. I like Sonar. Many like Logic. A few like Cubase. Then you need a midi keyboard if you're gonna play music, or you can do it all with loops and manually placed samples. You need a good sound card to monitor with. You need a lot of RAM. You need a lot of sample libraries you need good softsynths There is no 'cheap' way to do this well, but you can do acceptably well with cheap gear. You can also use loops only, and in that event, I'd suggest Garage Band, Acid, Sonar, or Soundtrack. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

July 13th, 2004, 07:33 AM	#4
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	For me.... I'd start with the Ilio Symphonies library, and Symphonic Fields Forever. These are samples. Used in Vsampler or Giga, they rock. Don't forget Denny Jaeger's library either. This is used on most films. But....these ain't cheap. Keyboard? I use an M-Audio Radium. About 150$, just midi and/or USB connection, has a small mixer for audio/midi events built in. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

July 13th, 2004, 11:20 AM	#7
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	By sound card, I meant an audio interface. I highly recommend anything from M-Audio that's PCI or firewire, Echo's products are great too. I avoid MOTU on the PC, but on the Mac they rule, IMO __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

July 15th, 2004, 12:21 AM	#10
Joel Iwataki New Boot Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 13	Music is for the heart It's funny to see this thread because I'm a film music guy who stumbled onto this forum because I wanted to buy my first camcorder. You have to realize that saying you want to create orchestral filmscores to go with your films is like a composer who says I just wrote a nice piece of music - what equipment do I need to make a major motion picture to go with it? But I fully encourage you to go with your creative impulses. But don't think of orchestral soundtrack in the literal sense of 80 conservatory trained musicians playing incredibly expensive instruments being recorded by a vast array of highly developed recording equipment. But think of it as music that moved you to feel more deeply the emotions that the film is trying to express. And there are filmscores like Cliff Martinez's 'Traffic' and Clint Mansell's 'Requiem For A Dream' that do that with synth sounds just as profoundly and deeply as any Titanic James Horner orchestral phantasmagoria. So Logic is good because you can have synths and samplers and Picture all within the same program (and is now a little ahead of MOTU). DgSpEgl is right about blnds v brnts. Check out http://www.audioforums.com/forums (Just as much of a Pandora's box as this forum). And just start making sounds to picture and don't worry too much about whether it sounds orchestral - but whether it makes you feel something. (cost range:Logic Express $299 to Hans Zimmer $1million midi studio)

July 13th, 2004, 04:54 AM	#3
Ben Gurvich Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 329	Thanks for the info Douglas, Basically i want to get an orchestral soundtrack, by way of midi keyboard, and samples. If im understanding you correctly Reason is not a sequencing program, just samples. I have used fruity loops for sequencing once before but i found it a bit ridgid, I have acid and use it occasionaly and like it. So i guess i just need the keyboard and the samples. Oh yeah and a probably a gig of ram. ANyway i appreciate the feedbak, i find it strange knowing a lot about computer video, but audio has seemed to pass me by, even though I am a musician. I would love to have some decent knowledge, and record my own stuff. It took me ages to figure out that midi is not sounds, but a triggering mechanism for any sample you have. Which, if i understand correctrlycan be wav files, midi files, or aiff etc I guess going on this, what would be a good place to start getting orchestral sounds that i can play with and itch up or down on a keyboard? Cheers, Ben Gurvich

July 13th, 2004, 07:49 AM	#5
Ben Gurvich Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 329	thanks ill chek some of this stuff out

July 13th, 2004, 10:46 AM	#6
Cannon Pearson Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 123	You might look into something like Cubase SE or SL with Native Instruments Kontakt sampler. I haven't seen any mention of an audio interface. You'll need a decent one of those. After having a couple of USB interfaces, I would stay away from those and go with a firewire or pci unit. MOTU, RME and M-audio are popular(but not the only) manufacturers.

July 13th, 2004, 11:44 AM	#8
Cannon Pearson Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 123	Sorry Douglas, I didn't read your post closely enough. I love my MOTU 896, but I am using it on a Mac. I seem to remember from his post in another forum that Ben is using a PC.

July 14th, 2004, 11:03 AM	#9
Rich Frankel New Boot Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 20	as an alternate idea to sequencing software, you could check out the newest versions of finale or sibelius (my vote is sibelius and I was a long time finale user) This is great if you truly understand composition but are perhaps not the greatest midi keyboardist alive. They're essentially notation programs, but the playback is pretty goshdarn good since the programs will read almost all of your articulation marks etc... sibelius comes bundled with a version of kontakt, that has some decent string samples and can control any midi capable software or hardware gear, so the sampling possibilities are endless. The key with any of this is having a composer that is familiar with the instrumentation, and that doesn't mean familiar writing orchestral music if it's ultimately going to be performed by midi, it means familiar writing for midi controlled samples or synths. Reason does have a built in sequencer, just not a particularly great one. I prefer cubase to logic, but only because its what I used first, and so am more intimately familiar with it. Good luck. btw, equilibrium was a very nice movie made from what I understand relatively cheaply... and how can anyone not like a movie that has gun kata in it. :)