New mics and stuff, a search for a new shotgun at DVinfo.net

Bryan Beasleigh · May 14th, 2004, 08:10 PM

In an effort to share my discoveries and trials I have the new sequel to "As the wallet empties".

I really need a shotgun. My Schoeps and Oktavas won't cut it for every situation. I should have a mic that has more reach and that will operate outdoors in all weather. Part of more reach is greater rejection and a presence boost.

I'm very lucky that I wandered into Trew Audio in Toronto and met Glen Trew. Glen is an institution on the RAMPS user group and very much on the bleeding edge of audio technology. His latest projects include Jersey Girl.

I recorded the various mics on my PMD670 and on the clips Glen rotated the mics while counting to indicate off axis responses. I'm amazed that this man went to those extaordinary lengths.

The players are

The sanken CS-3. The sanken has great side rejection on all frequencies, even the lows. The rear lobe usually found on shotguns just isn't there, which is a major bonus. Problem is, the mic sounds way too thick and rich, I just don't like it. it's also very expensive.

The CS1 is a damn fine little mic and at 19mm by about 7 inches is tiny. The side and rear rejection is as good as the CS-3 without the honey thick fog that permiates the sound (JMHO) It's a nice sounding mic with crisp voice reproduction and very neutral.

Some have said it's flat on the bottom end, but in fairness, that's just because the mic rejects all frequencies even the lows. usually even a shotgun is almost omnidirectional at low frequencies.

The CS1 is worthy of consideration and it sells for around 780 US. Don't look for bargains as this mic is rarely discounted.

The MKH60 is a very low noise short shotgun. It's sound is crisp and has the sennheiser richness. It's similar to the MKH416 but it defaults to a totally flat output. It does have a switchable high pass (low cut) filter, a switchable mid range presence peak (to make it sound like the 416) and a 10 db pad.

This mic sells for $1450US new. If I buy it will be used. This mic is in the running.

The MKH416 is everything the MKH60 is with it's presence boost switched on. I was partial to the flat setup on the MKH60. The 416 can be bought for $1000 - 1050.

What i have now is a clip with the 416, MKH60 , cs1 AND cs3 alternating several times. The time line on vegas has marker flags set with the mic model. My wife has threaten to leave home if i don't stop playing that clip.

I usually try and make a demo clip with a voice other than mine. Glen has a southern drawl and a somewhat sibilent voice while I have a very deep voice. This is a perfect trial

if your interested i could email some of the clips.

On a side note i did listen to the AKG SE300B and the CK93 (Hyper) capsule and the sennheiser MKH50 (also a hypercardoid). The CK93 has some of the qualities of the schoeps but at a fraction of the price (350)

The MKH50 was very clean and crisp. it's in the same league as the Shoeps but with it's own unique sound. (1160 US).

Frank Granovski · May 14th, 2004, 08:20 PM

The ME66 just didn't cut it?

What does your wife think of all this spending?

Did you ever buy a Apex 191? (Pokey's mic choice.) I'd be interested to know which one you end up with.

Thanks, Bryan!

Bryan Beasleigh · May 14th, 2004, 08:53 PM

It will most likely be a used MKH60 or a gnu CS1.

When I do retire or get put on disability (whichever come first) i'll have my gear. Cameras do change but not audio.

Serously though. You or I could most likely do a bang up job with the little Apex. We sometimes lose sight of the goal and what we can acomplish with basic but quality tools.

It's an illness I tell you ...............................................................
.......................................................................... I'm a GEAR SLUT and I can feel an attack coming on....... My hand is reaching for my credit card, I can't stop it. i'm starting to dial B&H. "Hello Audio department, i'd like to place an order" Argggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggghhhh !!

ThankGod its the sabbath and B&H is closed!

Gear Slutz Anon will have two meetings a week t'ill further notice.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · May 14th, 2004, 09:15 PM

Brian, I'd be interested in hearing what you've got, and would host it on the VASST site if you'd like.

I just picked up an AT 3060 tube mic, and REALLY lovin' it. We've done several v/o pieces with it, and it's got a fat sound.
I'm a gear whore too, but haven't got any Sankens. I'm in to BK stuff more than Sanken, but each of us has our loves.

Matt Gettemeier · May 14th, 2004, 09:50 PM

DSE... I'm sure it's not your first experience with one, but I love to see people joining in on the love of a tube mic. I had several professionals try to convince me that the fat-magic of the tube mic was a flaw that I should loath rather then love. I loved it... tubes make anybody sound good and they make good voices sound great.

The great thing about GSA is we all take joy in the spending of other members. The only thing I ever want to know when somebody gets a new mic is... the VERDICT...

I'm anxiously waiting to see what Beas goes with.

Barry Rivadue · May 16th, 2004, 08:12 PM

Okay, "silly questions" time. In a given recording--voice, music, or combination thereof, would a tube mic work in conjunction with a stereo mic? That is, what goes into one mic can also be supplemented by another mic concentrating on something else? Are multi-mic setups a good idea to cover all contingencies? Or am I making trouble? :D How versatile is a tube mic?

As with many on this board, I see mics as akin to paintbrushes--each one having their own strengths and purposes.

My inventory so far:

Sennheiser ME66
Oktavia kit
Rode NT4

Bryan Beasleigh · May 16th, 2004, 08:55 PM

This thread is/was on shotguns. Why not start a separate thread on tube mics.

Barry Rivadue · May 17th, 2004, 06:56 AM

I think I will! :)

Milt Lee · May 17th, 2004, 10:27 PM

Bryan,

I would love to hear what you've got. I've been susing out this shotgun thing for quite a while. I've been using the MKH50 for most of my interview stuff, but I want something that will mount on a Panasonic dvx100a.

Could you email that clip?

milt@manykites.com

Thanks,
Milt Lee

May 14th, 2004, 08:10 PM	#1
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	New mics and stuff, a search for a new shotgun In an effort to share my discoveries and trials I have the new sequel to "As the wallet empties". I really need a shotgun. My Schoeps and Oktavas won't cut it for every situation. I should have a mic that has more reach and that will operate outdoors in all weather. Part of more reach is greater rejection and a presence boost. I'm very lucky that I wandered into Trew Audio in Toronto and met Glen Trew. Glen is an institution on the RAMPS user group and very much on the bleeding edge of audio technology. His latest projects include Jersey Girl. I recorded the various mics on my PMD670 and on the clips Glen rotated the mics while counting to indicate off axis responses. I'm amazed that this man went to those extaordinary lengths. The players are The sanken CS-3. The sanken has great side rejection on all frequencies, even the lows. The rear lobe usually found on shotguns just isn't there, which is a major bonus. Problem is, the mic sounds way too thick and rich, I just don't like it. it's also very expensive. The CS1 is a damn fine little mic and at 19mm by about 7 inches is tiny. The side and rear rejection is as good as the CS-3 without the honey thick fog that permiates the sound (JMHO) It's a nice sounding mic with crisp voice reproduction and very neutral. Some have said it's flat on the bottom end, but in fairness, that's just because the mic rejects all frequencies even the lows. usually even a shotgun is almost omnidirectional at low frequencies. The CS1 is worthy of consideration and it sells for around 780 US. Don't look for bargains as this mic is rarely discounted. The MKH60 is a very low noise short shotgun. It's sound is crisp and has the sennheiser richness. It's similar to the MKH416 but it defaults to a totally flat output. It does have a switchable high pass (low cut) filter, a switchable mid range presence peak (to make it sound like the 416) and a 10 db pad. This mic sells for $1450US new. If I buy it will be used. This mic is in the running. The MKH416 is everything the MKH60 is with it's presence boost switched on. I was partial to the flat setup on the MKH60. The 416 can be bought for $1000 - 1050. What i have now is a clip with the 416, MKH60 , cs1 AND cs3 alternating several times. The time line on vegas has marker flags set with the mic model. My wife has threaten to leave home if i don't stop playing that clip. I usually try and make a demo clip with a voice other than mine. Glen has a southern drawl and a somewhat sibilent voice while I have a very deep voice. This is a perfect trial if your interested i could email some of the clips. On a side note i did listen to the AKG SE300B and the CK93 (Hyper) capsule and the sennheiser MKH50 (also a hypercardoid). The CK93 has some of the qualities of the schoeps but at a fraction of the price (350) The MKH50 was very clean and crisp. it's in the same league as the Shoeps but with it's own unique sound. (1160 US). __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ".......holy smokin rubber lips...what a ride!"

May 14th, 2004, 08:53 PM	#3
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	It will most likely be a used MKH60 or a gnu CS1. When I do retire or get put on disability (whichever come first) i'll have my gear. Cameras do change but not audio. Serously though. You or I could most likely do a bang up job with the little Apex. We sometimes lose sight of the goal and what we can acomplish with basic but quality tools. It's an illness I tell you ............................................................... .......................................................................... I'm a GEAR SLUT and I can feel an attack coming on....... My hand is reaching for my credit card, I can't stop it. i'm starting to dial B&H. "Hello Audio department, i'd like to place an order" Argggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggghhhh !! ThankGod its the sabbath and B&H is closed! Gear Slutz Anon will have two meetings a week t'ill further notice. __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ".......holy smokin rubber lips...what a ride!"

May 14th, 2004, 09:15 PM	#4
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Brian, I'd be interested in hearing what you've got, and would host it on the VASST site if you'd like. I just picked up an AT 3060 tube mic, and REALLY lovin' it. We've done several v/o pieces with it, and it's got a fat sound. I'm a gear whore too, but haven't got any Sankens. I'm in to BK stuff more than Sanken, but each of us has our loves. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

May 16th, 2004, 08:55 PM	#7
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	This thread is/was on shotguns. Why not start a separate thread on tube mics. __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ".......holy smokin rubber lips...what a ride!"

May 14th, 2004, 08:20 PM	#2
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	The ME66 just didn't cut it? What does your wife think of all this spending? Did you ever buy a Apex 191? (Pokey's mic choice.) I'd be interested to know which one you end up with. Thanks, Bryan!

May 14th, 2004, 09:50 PM	#5
Matt Gettemeier Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 936	DSE... I'm sure it's not your first experience with one, but I love to see people joining in on the love of a tube mic. I had several professionals try to convince me that the fat-magic of the tube mic was a flaw that I should loath rather then love. I loved it... tubes make anybody sound good and they make good voices sound great. The great thing about GSA is we all take joy in the spending of other members. The only thing I ever want to know when somebody gets a new mic is... the VERDICT... I'm anxiously waiting to see what Beas goes with.

May 16th, 2004, 08:12 PM	#6
Barry Rivadue Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 508	Okay, "silly questions" time. In a given recording--voice, music, or combination thereof, would a tube mic work in conjunction with a stereo mic? That is, what goes into one mic can also be supplemented by another mic concentrating on something else? Are multi-mic setups a good idea to cover all contingencies? Or am I making trouble? :D How versatile is a tube mic? As with many on this board, I see mics as akin to paintbrushes--each one having their own strengths and purposes. My inventory so far: Sennheiser ME66 Oktavia kit Rode NT4

May 17th, 2004, 06:56 AM	#8
Barry Rivadue Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 508	I think I will! :)

May 17th, 2004, 10:27 PM	#9
Milt Lee Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Cass Lake MN Posts: 221	Bryan, I would love to hear what you've got. I've been susing out this shotgun thing for quite a while. I've been using the MKH50 for most of my interview stuff, but I want something that will mount on a Panasonic dvx100a. Could you email that clip? milt@manykites.com Thanks, Milt Lee