pro sound on a trv19? at DVinfo.net

Alfred Okocha · May 14th, 2004, 04:55 PM

On a project that has to be recoreded on a physically small cam (like the trv19..the one I have..) is it possible to connect a lapela mic AND a boom mic on seperate tracks? Or is it better to record on DAT and put it together later?

Or how would you do it?

Thanks.

Matt Gettemeier · May 14th, 2004, 04:59 PM

In that cam for outright sound quality DAT would be better, but you could get reasonable sound by using a Beachtek DXA6 and then you could run two seperate channels and be able to supply phantom to either (or both) mic(s) as needed.

The Beachtek is $250... but worth it.

(I thought about getting a trv19/22 for a "danger-cam"... they seem like a good value for the price.)

Bryan Beasleigh · May 14th, 2004, 07:33 PM

I've recorded using my TRV20 and it has far better sound than the (unmodified) VX2K (not hard to beat).

If you'll be staying with consumer cameras right up to prosumer with 1/8 stereo input, I'd recomend the DXA8. It's somewhere around $360 but it adds preamps, limiters and phantom in a camera mounted package.

Alfred Okocha · May 15th, 2004, 05:38 AM

Thanks both of you. I have never used the cam for anything "serious" before, so it's good to know there's a away around DAT.
I'll look in to both of them.

Thanks.

Frank Granovski · May 15th, 2004, 01:29 PM

Quote:

I've recorded using my TRV20 and it has far better sound than the (unmodified) VX2K

That bad, huh? Yes, actually I noticed that the VX2000 is poor compared with my MX300. Funny how Sony screwed up so badly with the VX2000/PD150's audio. Has the VX2100's audio been improved?

Bryan Beasleigh · May 15th, 2004, 07:37 PM

The VX2K audio isn't obvious, total crap, it kinda wears. some people are quite happy with it. Iwas for almost a whole year ;-)

Frank Granovski · May 15th, 2004, 07:49 PM

I've heard VX2 playback, via a Sony deck and headphones. It sounded somewhere between tinny and harsh.

Bryan Beasleigh · May 15th, 2004, 08:42 PM

It shouldn't have, that would have depended on the mic, the setup and of course the headphones. Not to say the VX2K is horendous but the smaller cams like the TRV20 and i suspect the 19 are capable damn decent audio. Of course there's the old adage "cr@p in cr@p out". a reasonably good mic is necessary. Some times reasonably good can be reasonably priced.

Frank Granovski · May 15th, 2004, 10:09 PM

That footage was taken with the built-in mic, of a bunch of people playing drums in a park. I didn't shoot it, just watched and listened to the play-back. Maybe something's wrong with his VX2000? It did hit the cement once. Luckily he had a big lens hood on it (it landed on the hood/lens). Ouch.

Richard Brennan · May 18th, 2004, 12:33 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Alfred Okocha : Or is it better to record on DAT and put it together later? -->>>

First of all, it goes without saying (but I'm going to say it anyway) the best thing you can do to get "professional" sound is to put a decent mic close to the actor (or whoever your "talent" is.) So the issue then becomes how to get this wonderful sound into your production.

You have some other choices besides recording in camera or using DAT. MD recorders are MUCH less expensive than DAT and can be used in the same way - record quality sound and then sync later.

My personal favorite, however, is to record multiple tracks to my laptop for later mixing and enhancement in the studio. In order to do that I use an audio interface. that plugs into my firewire port I use an Edirol FA-101 with ten mic inputs, but if you only need two inputs you can use the UA-5 USB Digital Audio Capture (which costs about $260.) Then you need audio software that let you record and mix your tracks. Vegas has this already. I also use Cakewalk Sonar. Cakewalk also makes a less expensive product, their Home Studio 2004 that sells for about $130.

Just a few more ideas to throw into the mix.

Frank Granovski · May 18th, 2004, 12:46 AM

All that for a Sony 1-chip TRV19? :-))

Richard Brennan · May 18th, 2004, 10:15 AM

Sure. But only if you want good sound. I know you are just being flip, but think about it: If you figure sound is 50% of the presentation - take the same $500 or so that you spent on the TRV19 and get a mic and a sound editing program you'll have what you need to record sound on your computer or laptop. Digital sound, no less. Record one trak at a time, then edit.

I think the real obstacle of most people isn't $$, but learning to think in terms of sound editing the way they think of video editing (i.e. the job isn't over once you've gotten the shot).

Bryan Beasleigh · May 18th, 2004, 10:31 PM

Richard
You can get "good" sound into a trv19. Good is relative to a persons tastes and needs. It's different strokes for different folks.

I did an expertiment, inputing an AT899 and a Sony ECM44 lav into a TREV 20 and the result was good sound. All that was needed was a little care and a XLR to mini cable. The audio I recorded would have impressed most viewers as highly acceptable.

If the person doesn't own a laptop you've just upped the ante. By the sounds of it you have an apple, which most do not have. If he does record on a secondary device he now has to sync. Even with the rig you describe you can get crappy audio

There are all levels of pro and amateur on this site.

Dave Largent · May 18th, 2004, 10:59 PM

I had a Sony TR101 Hi8 analog camera that
had better sound than the VX -- more life-like,
with higher sensitivity to boot.

Frank Granovski · May 19th, 2004, 12:13 AM

Some of those old cams had great audio, some did not. Today, it's much the same. Thankfully, the VX and PD cams can get their audio fixed. Ask Bryan about it. :-))

May 14th, 2004, 04:55 PM	#1
Alfred Okocha Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: London Posts: 427	pro sound on a trv19? On a project that has to be recoreded on a physically small cam (like the trv19..the one I have..) is it possible to connect a lapela mic AND a boom mic on seperate tracks? Or is it better to record on DAT and put it together later? Or how would you do it? Thanks.

May 14th, 2004, 07:33 PM	#3
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	I've recorded using my TRV20 and it has far better sound than the (unmodified) VX2K (not hard to beat). If you'll be staying with consumer cameras right up to prosumer with 1/8 stereo input, I'd recomend the DXA8. It's somewhere around $360 but it adds preamps, limiters and phantom in a camera mounted package. __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ".......holy smokin rubber lips...what a ride!"

May 15th, 2004, 07:37 PM	#6
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	The VX2K audio isn't obvious, total crap, it kinda wears. some people are quite happy with it. Iwas for almost a whole year ;-) __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ".......holy smokin rubber lips...what a ride!"

May 15th, 2004, 08:42 PM	#8
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	It shouldn't have, that would have depended on the mic, the setup and of course the headphones. Not to say the VX2K is horendous but the smaller cams like the TRV20 and i suspect the 19 are capable damn decent audio. Of course there's the old adage "cr@p in cr@p out". a reasonably good mic is necessary. Some times reasonably good can be reasonably priced. __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ".......holy smokin rubber lips...what a ride!"

May 18th, 2004, 12:33 AM	#10
Richard Brennan New Boot Join Date: May 2004 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 22	Re: pro sound on a trv19? <<<-- Originally posted by Alfred Okocha : Or is it better to record on DAT and put it together later? -->>> First of all, it goes without saying (but I'm going to say it anyway) the best thing you can do to get "professional" sound is to put a decent mic close to the actor (or whoever your "talent" is.) So the issue then becomes how to get this wonderful sound into your production. You have some other choices besides recording in camera or using DAT. MD recorders are MUCH less expensive than DAT and can be used in the same way - record quality sound and then sync later. My personal favorite, however, is to record multiple tracks to my laptop for later mixing and enhancement in the studio. In order to do that I use an audio interface. that plugs into my firewire port I use an Edirol FA-101 with ten mic inputs, but if you only need two inputs you can use the UA-5 USB Digital Audio Capture (which costs about $260.) Then you need audio software that let you record and mix your tracks. Vegas has this already. I also use Cakewalk Sonar. Cakewalk also makes a less expensive product, their Home Studio 2004 that sells for about $130. Just a few more ideas to throw into the mix.

May 14th, 2004, 04:59 PM	#2
Matt Gettemeier Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 936	In that cam for outright sound quality DAT would be better, but you could get reasonable sound by using a Beachtek DXA6 and then you could run two seperate channels and be able to supply phantom to either (or both) mic(s) as needed. The Beachtek is $250... but worth it. (I thought about getting a trv19/22 for a "danger-cam"... they seem like a good value for the price.)

May 15th, 2004, 05:38 AM	#4
Alfred Okocha Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: London Posts: 427	Thanks both of you. I have never used the cam for anything "serious" before, so it's good to know there's a away around DAT. I'll look in to both of them. Thanks.

May 15th, 2004, 07:49 PM	#7
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	I've heard VX2 playback, via a Sony deck and headphones. It sounded somewhere between tinny and harsh.

May 15th, 2004, 10:09 PM	#9
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	That footage was taken with the built-in mic, of a bunch of people playing drums in a park. I didn't shoot it, just watched and listened to the play-back. Maybe something's wrong with his VX2000? It did hit the cement once. Luckily he had a big lens hood on it (it landed on the hood/lens). Ouch.

May 18th, 2004, 12:46 AM	#11
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	All that for a Sony 1-chip TRV19? :-))

May 18th, 2004, 10:15 AM	#12
Richard Brennan New Boot Join Date: May 2004 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 22	Sure. But only if you want good sound. I know you are just being flip, but think about it: If you figure sound is 50% of the presentation - take the same $500 or so that you spent on the TRV19 and get a mic and a sound editing program you'll have what you need to record sound on your computer or laptop. Digital sound, no less. Record one trak at a time, then edit. I think the real obstacle of most people isn't $$, but learning to think in terms of sound editing the way they think of video editing (i.e. the job isn't over once you've gotten the shot).

May 18th, 2004, 10:31 PM	#13
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	Richard You can get "good" sound into a trv19. Good is relative to a persons tastes and needs. It's different strokes for different folks. I did an expertiment, inputing an AT899 and a Sony ECM44 lav into a TREV 20 and the result was good sound. All that was needed was a little care and a XLR to mini cable. The audio I recorded would have impressed most viewers as highly acceptable. If the person doesn't own a laptop you've just upped the ante. By the sounds of it you have an apple, which most do not have. If he does record on a secondary device he now has to sync. Even with the rig you describe you can get crappy audio There are all levels of pro and amateur on this site. __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ".......holy smokin rubber lips...what a ride!"

May 18th, 2004, 10:59 PM	#14
Dave Largent Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,483	I had a Sony TR101 Hi8 analog camera that had better sound than the VX -- more life-like, with higher sensitivity to boot.

May 19th, 2004, 12:13 AM	#15
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Some of those old cams had great audio, some did not. Today, it's much the same. Thankfully, the VX and PD cams can get their audio fixed. Ask Bryan about it. :-))