Running two Sennheiser Evolution G2 units

Nicole Hankerson · August 9th, 2009, 05:19 PM

This might sound crazy but just curious. If you get two G2's and they are both the A version can you utilize both of those just as long as they are on different channels and they each have a receiver and transmitter if that makes sense? I'm about to buy some wireless mics and I wondered could you have two A versions or do I need to buy an A version and a B version? Just wondering. I read through everyone's postings but just want to clarify.

Thanks
Nicole

Rich Perry · August 9th, 2009, 05:23 PM

Hi Nicole, yes as long as they have thier own reciever and transmitter they can both be on same band, just pick w different frequencies.

Watch out for C band as FCC has reclaimed these and they are ilegal to use now.

A = 518 and 554Mhz (good)
B = 626MHz to 668MHz (good)
C = 698MHz to 806Mhz (Bad)

We have an "A" and "B" band now - just won an ebay auction for a used G2 system for $340 ~

Rick Reineke · August 9th, 2009, 05:37 PM

"Not sure if random females would like me messing with their bra straps but I am willing to try :)"

With pro actresses it's usually not an issue, but otherwise you will have to 'feel' the situation out. no pun.. -pun. With females in question, I usually instruct them how and where to put the mic, 7 out of 10 times, they say, you can do it. Oh course I'm a non-threatening 50 yr old. Later on I'll often say to the cam-op "nice-set-a-hooters on so-and so, huh?"
Sorry can't help myself. :)

Nicole Hankerson · August 9th, 2009, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Perry

Hi Nicole, yes as long as they have thier own reciever and transmitter they can both be on same band, just pick w different frequencies.

Watch out for C band as FCC has reclaimed these and they are ilegal to use now.

A = 518 and 554Mhz (good)
B = 626MHz to 668MHz (good)
C = 698MHz to 806Mhz (Bad)

We have an "A" and "B" band now - just won an ebay auction for a used G2 system for $340 ~

Thanks I thought so but when I'm unsure I ask. Congratulations on the Ebay Auction!!!

Rich Perry · August 9th, 2009, 05:52 PM

hehe.... thats too funny Rick :)

Rich Perry · August 9th, 2009, 05:56 PM

Thanks Nicole! eBay is a bit hit or miss, the last time I bought a used G2 system the transmitter died after a few weeks, but sennheiser have awesome support. It cost I think $70 for a flat fee service charge, (I had no warrenty) they ended up replacing the board and getting it back to me in under a week.

Rick Reineke · August 9th, 2009, 06:17 PM

Hi Nicole, You can have many systems going in the one block. Always do a freg. scan, turning on and scanning one-system-at-a-time, sequentially.
Often I use a single transmitter to send audio (camera hops) to two cameras, both recvs. on the same channel.... However, you cant do this the other way around. two tramsmiters, one recvr.

John Willett · August 10th, 2009, 06:33 AM

Most questions Have been answered - but please note that the new G3 has replaced the old G2 systems.

The new G3 camera receivers are now diversity (using the output cable as the second antenna) and – also – there is a new “G” band for the USA (in-between the “A” and “B” versions).

I hope this helps.

Battle Vaughan · August 10th, 2009, 08:22 AM

It is possible for two Senny transmitters to interfere with each other, see page 32 of the G2 manual; for multi-channel operation you should use the free channels in one channel bank. We have had some intermodulation interference in using randomly-selected frequencies, even between transmitters such as one on A band and one on C band....no big thing, you just have to be aware to turn off the transmitters, scan a channel bank on a receiver and lock out conflicting frequencies, then apply the results to all your units, setting them all to open frequencies in one channel bank.../Battle Vaughan PS: I should point out, this is radio frequency interferance, it is not a phase problem from mic placement, that is an entirely separate problem.

Paul R Johnson · August 10th, 2009, 09:50 AM

There are two potential issues here. ANY two microphones (with cable or radio link) can exhibit partial or complete cancellation when used close together and then summed into mono, or placed in the same stereo location, sound field wise. It happens no end running microphones on stage. As the two people get closer, there is a characteristic hollowness that begins to get stronger as they get closer. In most cases, as the mics are omnis, as they get closer, our usual technique is to dip the audio from the mic on the strongest voice as this gets picked up on the other anyway. Sometimes you have to live with a slightly poor balance between the participants when they are close. The phenomena is called comb filtering - Google will provide details, but it is a pain. Using a radio system or not makes no difference to this problem. Live, and of course in post, it's often possible to prod a button and reverse the polarity on one or the other. The result will be worse, or better - so you can choose which works best. In radio systems, having two transmitters next to each other rarely causes issues with decently design products like the Sennheisers and others. Two receivers again cause little trouble if placed together. What radio systems don't like is a transmitter for one channel being right next to the receiver for another. The usual result of this is that the apparent sensitivity of the receiver is degraded. In video terms, if you have a person with one transmitter a way away, with a nice strong signal at the receiver on the camera, all is well until the person with the other transmitter comes and stands next to the camera, when the more distant person's signal appears to wither and die. Often, people blame the batteries, fit a new set and all seems cured, until the other person gets close again.

The common problem of comb filtering may not be noticed during recording if the sound guy has ch 1 on the left ear and channel 2 on the right. All sounds well, but in the edit suite, when both channels are panned into mono - it sounds hollow and boxy. Pan them apart a little, and experiment with the polarity, and it's usually possible to make it sound as it should.

Marco Leavitt · August 11th, 2009, 11:24 AM

"Not sure if random females would like me messing with their bra straps but I am willing to try :)"

Frankly, I always ask production for a female PA or somebody to help me with this. It's best for all concerned, trust me. The actress is reassured you're not a creep, the PA gets out of having to go get lunch, and I pick up an extra hand on the busy shots (but just the busy shots, don't abuse this).

Jeff Kellam · August 12th, 2009, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Nattrass

... if you look at my G2 mics on the video clips I have the stock sennheiser hard windshield on them with a radio shack soft foam wind gag added on top to diffuse any wind or pops.

As for placement chest is best as all omni mics like the G2 ones benefit from a bit of chest cavity resonance that is why lavs tend to sound worse on females as those frontal projections absorb a lot of the chest resonance.

Are those the ME2s?

Rich Perry · August 12th, 2009, 01:06 PM

Paul this is pretty much confirms as I had suspected with the audio and comb filtering as I have seen it a lot in studio settings and figured it could be an issue, thanks for the advice. As far as the Bra straps are concerned Marco, that was just a cheap joke on my part :)

Marco Leavitt · August 14th, 2009, 10:29 AM

I know you were just joking Rich. Still, if you work with wireless much, you'll find this is a very serious issue.

Gary Nattrass · August 14th, 2009, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Kellam

Are those the ME2s?

The mics are the stock ones that came with the G2 set which I think are the ME2's

August 9th, 2009, 05:19 PM	#16
Nicole Hankerson Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Norcross, GA Posts: 143	Quick question This might sound crazy but just curious. If you get two G2's and they are both the A version can you utilize both of those just as long as they are on different channels and they each have a receiver and transmitter if that makes sense? I'm about to buy some wireless mics and I wondered could you have two A versions or do I need to buy an A version and a B version? Just wondering. I read through everyone's postings but just want to clarify. Thanks Nicole

August 10th, 2009, 06:33 AM	#23
John Willett Major Player Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Oxfordshire, UK Posts: 976	Most questions Have been answered - but please note that the new G3 has replaced the old G2 systems. The new G3 camera receivers are now diversity (using the output cable as the second antenna) and – also – there is a new “G” band for the USA (in-between the “A” and “B” versions). I hope this helps. __________________ John Willett - Sound-Link ProAudio and Circle Sound Services President: Fédération Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons

August 10th, 2009, 08:22 AM	#24
Battle Vaughan Trustee Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami, FL USA Posts: 1,505	It is possible for two Senny transmitters to interfere with each other, see page 32 of the G2 manual; for multi-channel operation you should use the free channels in one channel bank. We have had some intermodulation interference in using randomly-selected frequencies, even between transmitters such as one on A band and one on C band....no big thing, you just have to be aware to turn off the transmitters, scan a channel bank on a receiver and lock out conflicting frequencies, then apply the results to all your units, setting them all to open frequencies in one channel bank.../Battle Vaughan PS: I should point out, this is radio frequency interferance, it is not a phase problem from mic placement, that is an entirely separate problem. Last edited by Battle Vaughan; August 10th, 2009 at 10:06 AM.

August 9th, 2009, 05:23 PM	#17
Rich Perry Major Player Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Nashua NH Posts: 278	Hi Nicole, yes as long as they have thier own reciever and transmitter they can both be on same band, just pick w different frequencies. Watch out for C band as FCC has reclaimed these and they are ilegal to use now. A = 518 and 554Mhz (good) B = 626MHz to 668MHz (good) C = 698MHz to 806Mhz (Bad) We have an "A" and "B" band now - just won an ebay auction for a used G2 system for $340 ~

August 9th, 2009, 05:37 PM	#18
Rick Reineke Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New York Posts: 2,039	"Not sure if random females would like me messing with their bra straps but I am willing to try :)" With pro actresses it's usually not an issue, but otherwise you will have to 'feel' the situation out. no pun.. -pun. With females in question, I usually instruct them how and where to put the mic, 7 out of 10 times, they say, you can do it. Oh course I'm a non-threatening 50 yr old. Later on I'll often say to the cam-op "nice-set-a-hooters on so-and so, huh?" Sorry can't help myself. :)

August 9th, 2009, 05:52 PM	#20
Rich Perry Major Player Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Nashua NH Posts: 278	hehe.... thats too funny Rick :)

August 9th, 2009, 05:56 PM	#21
Rich Perry Major Player Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Nashua NH Posts: 278	Thanks Nicole! eBay is a bit hit or miss, the last time I bought a used G2 system the transmitter died after a few weeks, but sennheiser have awesome support. It cost I think $70 for a flat fee service charge, (I had no warrenty) they ended up replacing the board and getting it back to me in under a week.

August 9th, 2009, 06:17 PM	#22
Rick Reineke Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New York Posts: 2,039	Hi Nicole, You can have many systems going in the one block. Always do a freg. scan, turning on and scanning one-system-at-a-time, sequentially. Often I use a single transmitter to send audio (camera hops) to two cameras, both recvs. on the same channel.... However, you cant do this the other way around. two tramsmiters, one recvr.

August 10th, 2009, 09:50 AM	#25
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,045	There are two potential issues here. ANY two microphones (with cable or radio link) can exhibit partial or complete cancellation when used close together and then summed into mono, or placed in the same stereo location, sound field wise. It happens no end running microphones on stage. As the two people get closer, there is a characteristic hollowness that begins to get stronger as they get closer. In most cases, as the mics are omnis, as they get closer, our usual technique is to dip the audio from the mic on the strongest voice as this gets picked up on the other anyway. Sometimes you have to live with a slightly poor balance between the participants when they are close. The phenomena is called comb filtering - Google will provide details, but it is a pain. Using a radio system or not makes no difference to this problem. Live, and of course in post, it's often possible to prod a button and reverse the polarity on one or the other. The result will be worse, or better - so you can choose which works best. In radio systems, having two transmitters next to each other rarely causes issues with decently design products like the Sennheisers and others. Two receivers again cause little trouble if placed together. What radio systems don't like is a transmitter for one channel being right next to the receiver for another. The usual result of this is that the apparent sensitivity of the receiver is degraded. In video terms, if you have a person with one transmitter a way away, with a nice strong signal at the receiver on the camera, all is well until the person with the other transmitter comes and stands next to the camera, when the more distant person's signal appears to wither and die. Often, people blame the batteries, fit a new set and all seems cured, until the other person gets close again. The common problem of comb filtering may not be noticed during recording if the sound guy has ch 1 on the left ear and channel 2 on the right. All sounds well, but in the edit suite, when both channels are panned into mono - it sounds hollow and boxy. Pan them apart a little, and experiment with the polarity, and it's usually possible to make it sound as it should.

August 11th, 2009, 11:24 AM	#26
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	"Not sure if random females would like me messing with their bra straps but I am willing to try :)" Frankly, I always ask production for a female PA or somebody to help me with this. It's best for all concerned, trust me. The actress is reassured you're not a creep, the PA gets out of having to go get lunch, and I pick up an extra hand on the busy shots (but just the busy shots, don't abuse this).

August 12th, 2009, 01:06 PM	#28
Rich Perry Major Player Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Nashua NH Posts: 278	Paul this is pretty much confirms as I had suspected with the audio and comb filtering as I have seen it a lot in studio settings and figured it could be an issue, thanks for the advice. As far as the Bra straps are concerned Marco, that was just a cheap joke on my part :)

August 14th, 2009, 10:29 AM	#29
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	I know you were just joking Rich. Still, if you work with wireless much, you'll find this is a very serious issue.