Edirol R44 to wireless and camera at DVinfo.net

Adrian Price · July 14th, 2009, 08:38 PM

Ok apologies in advance to Rick Reineke who provided some awesome advice re a SD302 to marantz PMD661 configuration, but we are also scoping another documentary audio kit as a 2nd option and I again wanted to see if anyone could see any problems with what we are considering.

I've read through the threads and seen that the Edirol R44 has been given some mixed reviews, some love it, others loathe it (awful pre-amps) while one or two have suggested that if we look at an Oade Brothers modified version all should be good.

We are considering using the R44 as a combined mixer/recorder, with a boom and two wireless mics going into the R44 and then from the RCA outputs of the R44 sending the signal for two of the channels to our EX3 via Lectrosonics UM400A-AU transmitters.

This way we are hoping to have good quality synced sound with the video as well as a quality backup on the R44 with the option of having 2 additional clean channels to use if needed (on the R44).

At the moment this seems like a better option - giving us potentially 4 clean channels of audio to use in post, but we are a little nervous about the quality of the R44 and whether or not going from the RCA outs to the camera via the Lectrosonics is really a quality compromising move??

Can anyone give us their 2 cents on what they think of this as a viable setup?

Dean Sensui · July 15th, 2009, 02:16 AM

I would use the audio tracks from the R-44 as primary audio tracks. The only reason I'd send to the camera via wireless is to allow the cameraman to monitor the audio (he might catch something the talent is saying and that might help his framing), and as a backup or scratch track. Otherwise there will be too much loss of quality.

If you're using Final Cut as an editing solution, there's something called SequenceLiner that will synchronize video to audio if you're using time-of-day timecode with the camera and the R-44. It'll help you correlate and sync your video and audio quickly.

Adrian Price · July 15th, 2009, 05:51 AM

Hey Dean

Thanks for your feedback. Can I just clarify, your concern about sending wireless to the camera; is this a reflection of a lack of faith in the R44 output, or that you don't like sending wireless generally?

Thanks in advance

Adrian.

Michael Liebergot · July 15th, 2009, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrian Price

Hey Dean

Thanks for your feedback. Can I just clarify, your concern about sending wireless to the camera; is this a reflection of a lack of faith in the R44 output, or that you don't like sending wireless generally?

Thanks in advance

Adrian.

Adrian, you can send a wireless feed to your camera via the R-44's "Line Outs".
We have used this method using R44, Sennheiser G2 wireless, and Sony FX1s (with Juicedlink XLR box).

The audio from the R44 is used audio for the main audio in post.
The wireless audio going to the camera is used for monitor (hear for issues while recording), sync purposes.

This should work very well for what you are attempting to do.

We have also used this setup using a Zoom H4n, recording in 4-channel mode using onboard mics (for 2 channels) and the dual XLRs for 2 additional channels, then send a mixed down 4-channel to mono feed via the H4n's 1/8 "Line Out".

While this is not recommended to mixdown 4 channels into a mono channel for main audio purposes, since the H4n would be used for the primary audio, it does work well for sync/monitor usage.

Dean Sensui · July 15th, 2009, 10:54 AM

Adrian...

Feeding the camera via wireless adds another link to the chain, and a potentially weak one at that. It's subject to interference and dropouts, as well as a reduction in performance (signal-noise ratio and frequency response).

It's possible to feed to the camera via cable which is cleaner and more reliable, but that limits mobility and flexibility.

I was thinking of using a wireless to send a mixdown out of my R-44, but strictly for monitoring.

July 14th, 2009, 08:38 PM	#1
Adrian Price Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Adelaide, South Australia Posts: 29	Edirol R44 to wireless and camera Ok apologies in advance to Rick Reineke who provided some awesome advice re a SD302 to marantz PMD661 configuration, but we are also scoping another documentary audio kit as a 2nd option and I again wanted to see if anyone could see any problems with what we are considering. I've read through the threads and seen that the Edirol R44 has been given some mixed reviews, some love it, others loathe it (awful pre-amps) while one or two have suggested that if we look at an Oade Brothers modified version all should be good. We are considering using the R44 as a combined mixer/recorder, with a boom and two wireless mics going into the R44 and then from the RCA outputs of the R44 sending the signal for two of the channels to our EX3 via Lectrosonics UM400A-AU transmitters. This way we are hoping to have good quality synced sound with the video as well as a quality backup on the R44 with the option of having 2 additional clean channels to use if needed (on the R44). At the moment this seems like a better option - giving us potentially 4 clean channels of audio to use in post, but we are a little nervous about the quality of the R44 and whether or not going from the RCA outs to the camera via the Lectrosonics is really a quality compromising move?? Can anyone give us their 2 cents on what they think of this as a viable setup?

July 15th, 2009, 02:16 AM	#2
Dean Sensui Inner Circle Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 2,054	I would use the audio tracks from the R-44 as primary audio tracks. The only reason I'd send to the camera via wireless is to allow the cameraman to monitor the audio (he might catch something the talent is saying and that might help his framing), and as a backup or scratch track. Otherwise there will be too much loss of quality. If you're using Final Cut as an editing solution, there's something called SequenceLiner that will synchronize video to audio if you're using time-of-day timecode with the camera and the R-44. It'll help you correlate and sync your video and audio quickly. __________________ Dean Sensui Exec Producer, Hawaii Goes Fishing

July 15th, 2009, 05:51 AM	#3
Adrian Price Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Adelaide, South Australia Posts: 29	Thanks Dean Hey Dean Thanks for your feedback. Can I just clarify, your concern about sending wireless to the camera; is this a reflection of a lack of faith in the R44 output, or that you don't like sending wireless generally? Thanks in advance Adrian.

July 15th, 2009, 10:54 AM	#5
Dean Sensui Inner Circle Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 2,054	Adrian... Feeding the camera via wireless adds another link to the chain, and a potentially weak one at that. It's subject to interference and dropouts, as well as a reduction in performance (signal-noise ratio and frequency response). It's possible to feed to the camera via cable which is cleaner and more reliable, but that limits mobility and flexibility. I was thinking of using a wireless to send a mixdown out of my R-44, but strictly for monitoring. __________________ Dean Sensui Exec Producer, Hawaii Goes Fishing