Comments wanted: Please? at DVinfo.net

Douglas Spotted Eagle · March 25th, 2004, 10:41 PM

Hey gang, we're just finishing the Audio for DV DVD, and found we can afford to put another 20 mins on the DVD set without compromising bitrate. So, decided to add the 20 mins, but ask y'all what subjects YOU'D like to see in there. We'll be shipping this shortly after NAB, so comments over the next 3 days would be much appreciated. We'll wrap the vid up on Tuesday of next.
So, have at us, we'd love to hear from you!
send requests to dse(at) sundancemediagroup.com

Bryan Beasleigh · March 25th, 2004, 11:17 PM

Is there an outline of material already covered?

Douglas Spotted Eagle · March 25th, 2004, 11:24 PM

There is, but we're keeping that under wraps for now...partially for competitive reasons, but also because we want to hear what your input would be without anything being 'looked against' if that makes sense. All of the 'normal' stuff such as mic types, connectors, placement, mounting is covered, but wonder about any depth you all might like to see.
In terms of mics covered/heard, it's mostly AT mics, because we have so many of them. While I'm not an endorsee, I probably should be. We've spent a fortune on them over the years. Beachtek line is covered in there, monitors, etc too.... That's about all I dare say for now.

Barry Schmetter · March 26th, 2004, 12:03 AM

Well this is tough without knowing what you've already covered, but, how about:

An extensive tutorial on lav placement (at least 5 examples)

Boom techniques for multiple actors, booming with the action

In-depth field mixer setup and use (Sound Devices 302, Shure FP-24/33)

Taping off a sound board

Equipment and techniques for recording foley/sound effects

Equipment and techniques for recording live music

Basic post production techniques and tricks ( i.e., roll-off, compression settings, eq, etc)

I'm sure I'll think of a few more things :-)

Bryan Beasleigh · March 26th, 2004, 01:54 AM

I would think that the proper placement and usage of the various types of mics would be very important. Some visuals which would really go beyond what people are used to getting.

Getting into some of the areas that are still gray for most people.
Every one thinks they have to have a shotgun for almost all uses other than a lav. They are unaware of the potential use of hypercardoids (4053a), AT's many boundary mics and even audio support gear such as shock mounts, cabling, stands, booms, mixers and adapters. ( pads, automixers, adapters etc)

What piece of gear do you grab for that special need. In other words stuff that other people don't talk about.

I see no reason not to align yourself with AT. They've done a wonderfull job and try very hard to be a quality supplier as well as a good corporate citizen. There are a lot worse companies around.

Dan Brown · March 26th, 2004, 08:38 AM

Firts, put me down for one of these DV's, please.

I'd like to see a good bit on soundman/boom pole operation. I mean in a two-man crew operation. First man is director/cameraman, second man is sound/boom operator. Mixers, cabling, riding levels, etc. in that environment.

I'd also like to see some stufff on audio for a single camera shoot where the camera is flying on a stablizer. Guessing that wireless and on-camera mics would be featured.

How about something on a wireless connection from a field mixer to the camera so the camera can be flown.

Cardiods versus hypers versus shotguns in challenging shooting situations (outdoors, noisy, windy).

Gathering audio effects for outdoors sceens, like the sound of cars and tires rolling, airplanes fflying overhead, things going by the sceen, etc.

Thanks.

Mike Cavanaugh · March 26th, 2004, 08:38 AM

I like Barry's list. A few additional thoughts:

Tips & tricks for live event audio for video.

"Sub-pro" budget considerations - How to do things without big bucks and high end gear.

Dealing with the 0 headroom threshold of digital audio & how to fix/minimize the occasional screwup.

DSE - Great idea - looking forward to seeing it.

Jeff Toogood · March 26th, 2004, 10:41 AM

Where can we order this DVD when it is complete?

J. Clayton Stansberry · March 26th, 2004, 10:49 AM

Don't know if you want to go there, but a general mention or discussion of editing audio along with video might be helpful...tricks of the trade, programs used, quick fixes, how things will actually sound vs. what you hear, etc. Also, a discussion of doing separate audio and lining it up in post would be nice for us novice guys. PLEASE let us know where we can get this DVD! ...and thanks in advance Spot...

Jim Schweer · March 26th, 2004, 02:24 PM

How about a demonstration? Choose a common type of location, mic it with different kinds and setups of microphones, and let us listen to the various results. Perhaps organize it the way audio engineer would approach his work and the thought processes he would employ.

Mike Rehmus · March 26th, 2004, 08:12 PM

Add ADR tricks to the bucket too, please.

George Ellis · March 26th, 2004, 08:58 PM

I already sent this to DSE, but depending on the audience, an intro video with examples of issues and how to troubleshoot them sounds good to me. What does the PD-150 hiss sound like? You know, common and not so common problems that you can have and solve. With samples, it would be easier to understand what is meant.

Alessandro Machi · March 27th, 2004, 10:58 AM

We tested the beachtek during a video club meeting back in 98, and it was seriously flawed. We discovered that the "sweet spot" for the mike had very little "sweep tolerance" on the pan pot knob.

If you dialed the knob just a little bit left or right, the microphone would not register or would be distorted.

Ideally, the beachtek should have default settings.

-60, -50, -40, -20, -10, 0, +4, +10. and then the pan pot could have much more flexibility versus just a pot that handles everything from
-60 to whatever it goes on the other end.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · March 27th, 2004, 02:12 PM

Alessandro,
Have you looked at any of the newer Beachtek units? They sent me a couple units for review, today is the day to connect them. From what most are saying, they seem to be solid these days. I know the earlier units did indeed have some noise though.

Alessandro Machi · March 27th, 2004, 03:47 PM

No I have not. That's why I put the date of my involvement in the test we did.

I'm hoping since you are reviewing them as part of your video that you can get to the bottom of this issue.

I'm most interested in how many audio level choices they are giving. I think designing the beachteck as an actual tripod interface was a brilliant idea, but for me, that makes the possible lack of audio line-level input flexibility even more frustrating.

March 25th, 2004, 10:41 PM	#1
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Comments wanted: Please? Hey gang, we're just finishing the Audio for DV DVD, and found we can afford to put another 20 mins on the DVD set without compromising bitrate. So, decided to add the 20 mins, but ask y'all what subjects YOU'D like to see in there. We'll be shipping this shortly after NAB, so comments over the next 3 days would be much appreciated. We'll wrap the vid up on Tuesday of next. So, have at us, we'd love to hear from you! send requests to dse(at) sundancemediagroup.com __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

March 25th, 2004, 11:24 PM	#3
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	There is, but we're keeping that under wraps for now...partially for competitive reasons, but also because we want to hear what your input would be without anything being 'looked against' if that makes sense. All of the 'normal' stuff such as mic types, connectors, placement, mounting is covered, but wonder about any depth you all might like to see. In terms of mics covered/heard, it's mostly AT mics, because we have so many of them. While I'm not an endorsee, I probably should be. We've spent a fortune on them over the years. Beachtek line is covered in there, monitors, etc too.... That's about all I dare say for now. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

March 26th, 2004, 08:38 AM	#6
Dan Brown Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Fort Worth, Texas Posts: 235	Firts, put me down for one of these DV's, please. I'd like to see a good bit on soundman/boom pole operation. I mean in a two-man crew operation. First man is director/cameraman, second man is sound/boom operator. Mixers, cabling, riding levels, etc. in that environment. I'd also like to see some stufff on audio for a single camera shoot where the camera is flying on a stablizer. Guessing that wireless and on-camera mics would be featured. How about something on a wireless connection from a field mixer to the camera so the camera can be flown. Cardiods versus hypers versus shotguns in challenging shooting situations (outdoors, noisy, windy). Gathering audio effects for outdoors sceens, like the sound of cars and tires rolling, airplanes fflying overhead, things going by the sceen, etc. Thanks. __________________ dB

March 26th, 2004, 10:49 AM	#9
J. Clayton Stansberry Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Colorado Posts: 316	Don't know if you want to go there, but a general mention or discussion of editing audio along with video might be helpful...tricks of the trade, programs used, quick fixes, how things will actually sound vs. what you hear, etc. Also, a discussion of doing separate audio and lining it up in post would be nice for us novice guys. PLEASE let us know where we can get this DVD! ...and thanks in advance Spot... __________________ I understand everything about nothing.

March 26th, 2004, 08:12 PM	#11
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	Add ADR tricks to the bucket too, please. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

March 25th, 2004, 11:17 PM	#2
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	Is there an outline of material already covered?

March 26th, 2004, 12:03 AM	#4
Barry Schmetter Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Washington DC Posts: 38	Well this is tough without knowing what you've already covered, but, how about: An extensive tutorial on lav placement (at least 5 examples) Boom techniques for multiple actors, booming with the action In-depth field mixer setup and use (Sound Devices 302, Shure FP-24/33) Taping off a sound board Equipment and techniques for recording foley/sound effects Equipment and techniques for recording live music Basic post production techniques and tricks ( i.e., roll-off, compression settings, eq, etc) I'm sure I'll think of a few more things :-)

March 26th, 2004, 01:54 AM	#5
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	I would think that the proper placement and usage of the various types of mics would be very important. Some visuals which would really go beyond what people are used to getting. Getting into some of the areas that are still gray for most people. Every one thinks they have to have a shotgun for almost all uses other than a lav. They are unaware of the potential use of hypercardoids (4053a), AT's many boundary mics and even audio support gear such as shock mounts, cabling, stands, booms, mixers and adapters. ( pads, automixers, adapters etc) What piece of gear do you grab for that special need. In other words stuff that other people don't talk about. I see no reason not to align yourself with AT. They've done a wonderfull job and try very hard to be a quality supplier as well as a good corporate citizen. There are a lot worse companies around.

March 26th, 2004, 08:38 AM	#7
Mike Cavanaugh Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Albany NY Posts: 311	I like Barry's list. A few additional thoughts: Tips & tricks for live event audio for video. "Sub-pro" budget considerations - How to do things without big bucks and high end gear. Dealing with the 0 headroom threshold of digital audio & how to fix/minimize the occasional screwup. DSE - Great idea - looking forward to seeing it.

March 26th, 2004, 10:41 AM	#8
Jeff Toogood Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: St.Thomas, Ontario, CANADA Posts: 428	Where can we order this DVD when it is complete?

March 26th, 2004, 02:24 PM	#10
Jim Schweer Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Kansas City KS Posts: 60	How about a demonstration? Choose a common type of location, mic it with different kinds and setups of microphones, and let us listen to the various results. Perhaps organize it the way audio engineer would approach his work and the thought processes he would employ.

March 26th, 2004, 08:58 PM	#12
George Ellis Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Suwanee, GA Posts: 1,241	I already sent this to DSE, but depending on the audience, an intro video with examples of issues and how to troubleshoot them sounds good to me. What does the PD-150 hiss sound like? You know, common and not so common problems that you can have and solve. With samples, it would be easier to understand what is meant.

March 27th, 2004, 10:58 AM	#13
Alessandro Machi Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Los Angeles, Ca USA Posts: 553	We tested the beachtek during a video club meeting back in 98, and it was seriously flawed. We discovered that the "sweet spot" for the mike had very little "sweep tolerance" on the pan pot knob. If you dialed the knob just a little bit left or right, the microphone would not register or would be distorted. Ideally, the beachtek should have default settings. -60, -50, -40, -20, -10, 0, +4, +10. and then the pan pot could have much more flexibility versus just a pot that handles everything from -60 to whatever it goes on the other end. __________________ https://alexlogic.blogspot.com/ Los Angeles Emmy Winner (yes, used a video edit controller and loved doing so.)

March 27th, 2004, 02:12 PM	#14
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Alessandro, Have you looked at any of the newer Beachtek units? They sent me a couple units for review, today is the day to connect them. From what most are saying, they seem to be solid these days. I know the earlier units did indeed have some noise though. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

March 27th, 2004, 03:47 PM	#15
Alessandro Machi Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Los Angeles, Ca USA Posts: 553	No I have not. That's why I put the date of my involvement in the test we did. I'm hoping since you are reviewing them as part of your video that you can get to the bottom of this issue. I'm most interested in how many audio level choices they are giving. I think designing the beachteck as an actual tripod interface was a brilliant idea, but for me, that makes the possible lack of audio line-level input flexibility even more frustrating. __________________ https://alexlogic.blogspot.com/ Los Angeles Emmy Winner (yes, used a video edit controller and loved doing so.)