Comparative Demonstration of the Sennheiser ME66 and MKH416 at DVinfo.net

Ken Tanaka · February 26th, 2004, 11:11 AM

This article is now available in the DVInfo article library.

Thank you for your help "throwing it together", Chris.

Bryan Beasleigh · February 26th, 2004, 12:07 PM

Thanks Ken. The 416 sounds a bit like the CS-3 only a little more transparent.

Barry Rivadue · February 27th, 2004, 06:29 PM

I guess there's no other alternate audio download to Apple Quick Time?

Ken Tanaka · February 27th, 2004, 06:44 PM

Sorry Barry, but no.

Matt Gettemeier · February 27th, 2004, 10:55 PM

Ken, that was excellent. I enjoyed the text and the sound files.

Beas, Jan, Dave, and others have been doing a lot of sound file sharing so we can all hear the attributes of other mics and I realize that this stuff takes time and effort from you guys, so I'd just like to thank you VERY much for that work.

Really Ken... that made my day.

I've been looking for an excuse to get a 416 this year and that may have just done it.

Ken Tanaka · February 27th, 2004, 11:02 PM

Matt,
Glad you found it useful! (Bryan suggested you might consider it worth the trade in a particular body part...but I told him I already have enough of those.)

Quote:

I've been looking for an excuse to get a 416 this year and that may have just done it.

Uh oh. Please tell your children (if you have any) that I am not responsible for the disappearance of their college funds.

Matt Gettemeier · February 27th, 2004, 11:16 PM

Ken... no kids... but I have considered going back to college MYSELF! So... what to do?

At this point I don't really consider a $1K mic to be all that expensive. It will outlast any camera and it's not like something else is gonna' come out and make it obsolete.

If you've spoken much with Beas then you know he's already take the sticker shock out of thousand dollar mics anyway...

We've been shooting sound files around almost as fast as we can make 'em... and it all started a few months back when Dave Largent did a comparo of some handhelds.

At THAT point I thought a Beyer m58 was about as good as audio got for miniDV... Man am I glad that A LOT has happened since then!

I've gone through about a dozen mics and I'm getting some freaky amazing sound at this point. Since I've gone into a lot of detail on my madness in other threads I won't hijack this one and repeat it all...

But to sum it up... with mics everything is relative. The 416 serves the purpose of selective/directivity to isolate the subject from unwanted noise... combine that with a sonic character that's good enough to use it as a VO mic inside a sound proof booth and what do you get?

A thousand dollar mic that's worth every penny.

Bryan Beasleigh · February 28th, 2004, 11:33 PM

Ken
have you ever compared the 416 with the AT 4073 , neumann KMR81 or the Sanken CS-1 or CS-3???

Ken Tanaka · February 28th, 2004, 11:51 PM

No, I have not, Bryan. Nor do I have any experience with any of those other mics.

Alan Van Vliet · March 1st, 2004, 05:26 PM

Ken,

Good review on the Sennheiser mikes. The difference in quality is signifigant. But you definitely get what you pay for!

Any thoughts on using two of these mikes to record the sounds of tennis ball contact at a distance of 120 - 140 feet apart?

I would need a wireless system, where I can shoot tournament tennis from the stands but have the wireless mikes on the court so I will pick up a minimal amount of crowd noise.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Regards, Alan Van Vliet

Ram Nagarajan · March 2nd, 2004, 11:20 PM

Ken, can you drop in a link to the review? I can't seem to find it...

Ken Tanaka · March 3rd, 2004, 01:08 AM

Ram: I merged the second thread with the first. The link is at the top of this thread.

Alan: I've no direct experience attempting such recording so take my remarks with a grain of suspicion. (To get a sense of my perspective, my reaction before reading through your full question was to recommend adding the ball strike sounds as a foley effect! <g>)

My instincts tell me that neither the ME66 nor the MKH416 would be good choices for the situation you described. The 416, in particular, is a pretty narrow field mic that delivers very different sound as sources move through its field. It's really a film/dialog mic, although it could be used for other point targets such as nature work. But covering an area even of even half a court would really be outside of these mic's design strengths.

If I had to plot a course for such coverage in a jiffy I might opt for a stereo mic, such as the Audio-Technica AT422 placed on a stand near center court with each side covering half of the court. This mic has a very wide field for each channel and really does a pretty good job! (I have one but use it infrequently, as stereo mics tend to be specialty intruments for any kind of film work.) Of course you would need to handle two channels of wireless audio which could be cumbersome, but is certainly do-able.

So, maybe adding those ball pops as foley effects wasn't so cock-eyed. Just make the sound with your mouth placed near the camera's on-board mic! <g>

Good luck!

Alan Van Vliet · March 3rd, 2004, 08:00 PM

Hello Ken,

Thanks for your thoughts.

Some interesting challenges when filming from a distance and wanting to record quality sound close to the source. In this case, a stereo effect alternating on two sides of a tennis court without a lot of background or crowd noise.

The quality needs to be quite good, as the emphasis on this instructional series is on contact.

I had looked at some ornithology mikes, at one point in time. but it has been a while. I'll be shooting solo, so hand- held directional mikes won't work in this case.

I'll post my results when I get there. Thanks again!

Regards, Alan Van Vliet

Ram Nagarajan · March 4th, 2004, 02:24 AM

Ken: Great review, and the audio clips are excellent!
As the (proud) owner of a 416 for the past two years - and a user since film school days a long, long time ago - I will say this to everyone out there: If you can spend the dough, get a 416 for dialogue and on-location docu sound. It's a pleasure to work with, especially with a good lightweight boom and the original Sennheiser basket windshield and 'woolly' windbreaker. I use it with 48V phantom out of my Shure FP33 portable mixer, and it's given me great sound every single occasion I've used it. When I was in the market for a mic, I waited till I could scrape together the cash for the 416. I've never regretted it. :-)

Aaron Koolen · March 4th, 2004, 06:16 AM

Thanks for that Ken. It's been a real ear opener listening to everyone's sample recently.

Now the difference between these two mics is very obvious by listening to Ken's samples, but one thing I was wondering is if anyone has, or could do some equalisation on the ME66 and see how close they can get it to the 416. I'm not a very skilled sound guy and wouldn't really know what I'm doing but I'm interested if something could be done.

I'm hell busy, so if I get some time, I'll give it a go and see what happens.

I'm sure you can't get it identical.....can you? ;)

Aaron

February 26th, 2004, 11:11 AM	#1
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Comparative Demo of the Sennheiser ME66 and MKH416 Microphones This article is now available in the DVInfo article library. Thank you for your help "throwing it together", Chris. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

February 27th, 2004, 06:44 PM	#4
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Sorry Barry, but no. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

February 28th, 2004, 11:51 PM	#9
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	No, I have not, Bryan. Nor do I have any experience with any of those other mics. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

March 1st, 2004, 05:26 PM	#10
Alan Van Vliet Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Pinehurst, NC USA Posts: 69	Comparative Demonstration of the Sennheiser ME66 and MKH416 Ken, Good review on the Sennheiser mikes. The difference in quality is signifigant. But you definitely get what you pay for! Any thoughts on using two of these mikes to record the sounds of tennis ball contact at a distance of 120 - 140 feet apart? I would need a wireless system, where I can shoot tournament tennis from the stands but have the wireless mikes on the court so I will pick up a minimal amount of crowd noise. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Regards, Alan Van Vliet

March 2nd, 2004, 11:20 PM	#11
Ram Nagarajan Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: New Delhi, India Posts: 107	Ken, can you drop in a link to the review? I can't seem to find it... __________________ First they laugh at you Then they fight you Then they negotiate with you ...Then you win!

February 26th, 2004, 12:07 PM	#2
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	Thanks Ken. The 416 sounds a bit like the CS-3 only a little more transparent.

February 27th, 2004, 06:29 PM	#3
Barry Rivadue Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 508	I guess there's no other alternate audio download to Apple Quick Time?

February 27th, 2004, 10:55 PM	#5
Matt Gettemeier Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 936	Ken, that was excellent. I enjoyed the text and the sound files. Beas, Jan, Dave, and others have been doing a lot of sound file sharing so we can all hear the attributes of other mics and I realize that this stuff takes time and effort from you guys, so I'd just like to thank you VERY much for that work. Really Ken... that made my day. I've been looking for an excuse to get a 416 this year and that may have just done it.

February 27th, 2004, 11:16 PM	#7
Matt Gettemeier Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 936	Ken... no kids... but I have considered going back to college MYSELF! So... what to do? At this point I don't really consider a $1K mic to be all that expensive. It will outlast any camera and it's not like something else is gonna' come out and make it obsolete. If you've spoken much with Beas then you know he's already take the sticker shock out of thousand dollar mics anyway... We've been shooting sound files around almost as fast as we can make 'em... and it all started a few months back when Dave Largent did a comparo of some handhelds. At THAT point I thought a Beyer m58 was about as good as audio got for miniDV... Man am I glad that A LOT has happened since then! I've gone through about a dozen mics and I'm getting some freaky amazing sound at this point. Since I've gone into a lot of detail on my madness in other threads I won't hijack this one and repeat it all... But to sum it up... with mics everything is relative. The 416 serves the purpose of selective/directivity to isolate the subject from unwanted noise... combine that with a sonic character that's good enough to use it as a VO mic inside a sound proof booth and what do you get? A thousand dollar mic that's worth every penny.

February 28th, 2004, 11:33 PM	#8
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	Ken have you ever compared the 416 with the AT 4073 , neumann KMR81 or the Sanken CS-1 or CS-3???

March 3rd, 2004, 01:08 AM	#12
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Ram: I merged the second thread with the first. The link is at the top of this thread. Alan: I've no direct experience attempting such recording so take my remarks with a grain of suspicion. (To get a sense of my perspective, my reaction before reading through your full question was to recommend adding the ball strike sounds as a foley effect! <g>) My instincts tell me that neither the ME66 nor the MKH416 would be good choices for the situation you described. The 416, in particular, is a pretty narrow field mic that delivers very different sound as sources move through its field. It's really a film/dialog mic, although it could be used for other point targets such as nature work. But covering an area even of even half a court would really be outside of these mic's design strengths. If I had to plot a course for such coverage in a jiffy I might opt for a stereo mic, such as the Audio-Technica AT422 placed on a stand near center court with each side covering half of the court. This mic has a very wide field for each channel and really does a pretty good job! (I have one but use it infrequently, as stereo mics tend to be specialty intruments for any kind of film work.) Of course you would need to handle two channels of wireless audio which could be cumbersome, but is certainly do-able. So, maybe adding those ball pops as foley effects wasn't so cock-eyed. Just make the sound with your mouth placed near the camera's on-board mic! <g> Good luck! __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

March 3rd, 2004, 08:00 PM	#13
Alan Van Vliet Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Pinehurst, NC USA Posts: 69	Mikes for wireless outdoor sports recording Hello Ken, Thanks for your thoughts. Some interesting challenges when filming from a distance and wanting to record quality sound close to the source. In this case, a stereo effect alternating on two sides of a tennis court without a lot of background or crowd noise. The quality needs to be quite good, as the emphasis on this instructional series is on contact. I had looked at some ornithology mikes, at one point in time. but it has been a while. I'll be shooting solo, so hand- held directional mikes won't work in this case. I'll post my results when I get there. Thanks again! Regards, Alan Van Vliet

March 4th, 2004, 02:24 AM	#14
Ram Nagarajan Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: New Delhi, India Posts: 107	Ken: Great review, and the audio clips are excellent! As the (proud) owner of a 416 for the past two years - and a user since film school days a long, long time ago - I will say this to everyone out there: If you can spend the dough, get a 416 for dialogue and on-location docu sound. It's a pleasure to work with, especially with a good lightweight boom and the original Sennheiser basket windshield and 'woolly' windbreaker. I use it with 48V phantom out of my Shure FP33 portable mixer, and it's given me great sound every single occasion I've used it. When I was in the market for a mic, I waited till I could scrape together the cash for the 416. I've never regretted it. :-) __________________ First they laugh at you Then they fight you Then they negotiate with you ...Then you win!

March 4th, 2004, 06:16 AM	#15
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	Thanks for that Ken. It's been a real ear opener listening to everyone's sample recently. Now the difference between these two mics is very obvious by listening to Ken's samples, but one thing I was wondering is if anyone has, or could do some equalisation on the ME66 and see how close they can get it to the 416. I'm not a very skilled sound guy and wouldn't really know what I'm doing but I'm interested if something could be done. I'm hell busy, so if I get some time, I'll give it a go and see what happens. I'm sure you can't get it identical.....can you? ;) Aaron __________________ My Website Meat Free Media