4073a for PDX10? at DVinfo.net

Shawn Mielke · February 15th, 2004, 06:00 PM

I'm about to get a few things for my PDX10, namely a tripod/head, and a microphone.
I'm shooting stage performances in the pit, wide circle discussions where I am sitting and shooting from along the line of the circle, and other interview-type stuff, mostly indoors. I'm thinking that the AT 4073a might be a good way to go. The mic has to be cam mounted. The PDX10 utilizes an XLR block similar to that of the PD170's, having a line/mic/mic att input level switch.
It seems that the 4073 requires a preamp, yes? Forgive my ignorance, but does the PDX10 unit have this, or do I need another piece of equipment in order to use this mic?
My budget is $1050, for the tripod, a mic , and a long camera battery.
The tripod/head will cost $367, the battery $80.
A microphone with a good "reach" is best, I think, as some of what I do can keep me at several feet of distance (no more than 10).
What do we think?
Thanks very much.

Jay Massengill · February 15th, 2004, 06:56 PM

I think the 4073a is the best bet for the parameters you've set here. Any mic is going to be handicapped by camera mounting, but the 4073a is going to be the best without going over your budget. The Sanken CS-1 would be over your limit but would be a good choice too.
The 4073a can hook directly into your XLR adapter of the PDX-10. You shouldn't have any problems. In a loud situation you'll probably need to engage the Mic ATT switch.
You'll also need something like thin neoprene, rubber or rubber O-rings to take up the slack in the mount. This mount is bigger in diameter than the standard 21mm AT body.

Shawn Mielke · February 15th, 2004, 08:06 PM

Thank you, Jay.
Are you a PDX10 user? I'm wondering if I would do better to replace the standard shockmount with something else, a Sabrasom or other. I'm about to have a busy next weekend and am ordering stuff from B&H as a 2day delivery, so I should get everything I think I'm going to need. Are there rubber products sold (at B&H), like what you mentioned, that would enable me to make the most of my standard mount?
Thanks again.

Jay Massengill · February 15th, 2004, 08:59 PM

Yes I have a PD-x10. I very rarely use a mic on camera, but the further away you can get the mic the better. I know some people really like the Lightwave isolator that can go in the standard mount and gives extra shock protection and distance. It is pricey though. As for rigging your own extra wrap for the mic and using the standard mount, I think you'd have to find something handy or go to the hardware superstore. I commonly use thin strips cut from cheap mousepads for this.
Also be aware of an oddity with this camera and capturing into most NLE's. The footage is tagged as mixed mono and I have to use SceneAlyser to capture to keep the audio channels split.

Marty Wein · February 15th, 2004, 10:52 PM

I see that this mic is also offered as a kit for just $20.00 more and it includes the Right angle cable ($17.49) and Beyerdynamics Shockmount ($29.95).

Tha cable is something you will need, and the shock mount may come in handy too, at least till you decide to spend on the Lightwave etc. Tha Sabrasom will be too big for such a small camera IMO.

Ralf Strandell · February 16th, 2004, 05:48 AM

Not particularly delighted about this newly found "feature":

"Also be aware of an oddity with this camera and capturing into most NLE's. The footage is tagged as mixed mono and I have to use SceneAlyser to capture to keep the audio channels split."

- Does that mean that I won't be able to edit/adjust any stereo sound on my computer? Is the camera somehow incapable of recording proper stereo?

- Does this problem relate only to M/S stereo and adjusting the stereo width or will there be a problem if I want filter the sound, for example?

- I don't know what "mixed mono" means. Please educate. Links? Is it good for anything?

- Someone said that one should record 32 kHz/12-bit only to be able to separate the stereo tracks. Does that have something to do with this "mixed mono"?

Jay Massengill · February 16th, 2004, 09:39 AM

The camera records stereo just fine in 16-bit, 48k two-track mode. The problem comes in during capture to the computer. For some reason, many but not all NLE capture utilities mis-interpret the media "flag" on the PD-x10 originated footage. It thinks it's supposed to have both recorded tracks mixed together into a single centered track. This is called mixed mono. The NLE won't let you resplit or handle the two channels independently. In some cases this is actually a time saver, but normally it's not really what you will need to do.
Once you capture it correctly, using SceneAlyser, your NLE will handle the audio editing just like normal. You'll have whatever control you'd have with other stereo or 2-channel mono files that come from any other camera.
SceneAlyser is actually pretty powerful and handy for other things too and costs less than $40 to download.
I think I have heard that this problem only happens when using the XLR adapter and 16-bit, but that's really the only professional way to record to this camera. It's the only way I've done it or would want to, so I haven't experimented with other ways to avoid this problem. SceneAlyser works great for me. You should download a free limited test and make sure it works with your computer first.

Martin Garrison · February 16th, 2004, 10:33 AM

Jay,

I'm curious what NLE software you use, and what others your aware of having this same incompatiblitiy.

Shawn Mielke · February 16th, 2004, 02:10 PM

Thanks for pointing out the AT kit, Marty, I've added it to my "cart".
I got my budget to budge for a much needed Varizoom controller, so my order is about tailor fitted now. Thanks, everyone, for your input.

Jay Massengill · February 17th, 2004, 07:38 AM

I use Vegas. Since Sony has now purchased Sonic Foundry they may have a fix in place or in the works. I haven't been following the Vegas forums very closely for a while so I don't know anything new.
Premiere was listed as an NLE that also had this problem, along with another that escapes me. Of course with new software updates or releases the problem could be fixed, so capture some footage as a test and see how your exact system handles it.
It doesn't matter where you play the footage, it still exhibited the problem either from the camera or from a DVCAM deck with footage that was shot with a PD-x10.

February 15th, 2004, 06:00 PM	#1
Shawn Mielke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Santa Rosa, California Posts: 745	4073a for PDX10? I'm about to get a few things for my PDX10, namely a tripod/head, and a microphone. I'm shooting stage performances in the pit, wide circle discussions where I am sitting and shooting from along the line of the circle, and other interview-type stuff, mostly indoors. I'm thinking that the AT 4073a might be a good way to go. The mic has to be cam mounted. The PDX10 utilizes an XLR block similar to that of the PD170's, having a line/mic/mic att input level switch. It seems that the 4073 requires a preamp, yes? Forgive my ignorance, but does the PDX10 unit have this, or do I need another piece of equipment in order to use this mic? My budget is $1050, for the tripod, a mic , and a long camera battery. The tripod/head will cost $367, the battery $80. A microphone with a good "reach" is best, I think, as some of what I do can keep me at several feet of distance (no more than 10). What do we think? Thanks very much. __________________ Breakthrough In Grey Room

February 15th, 2004, 08:06 PM	#3
Shawn Mielke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Santa Rosa, California Posts: 745	Thank you, Jay. Are you a PDX10 user? I'm wondering if I would do better to replace the standard shockmount with something else, a Sabrasom or other. I'm about to have a busy next weekend and am ordering stuff from B&H as a 2day delivery, so I should get everything I think I'm going to need. Are there rubber products sold (at B&H), like what you mentioned, that would enable me to make the most of my standard mount? Thanks again. __________________ Breakthrough In Grey Room

February 16th, 2004, 02:10 PM	#9
Shawn Mielke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Santa Rosa, California Posts: 745	Thanks for pointing out the AT kit, Marty, I've added it to my "cart". I got my budget to budge for a much needed Varizoom controller, so my order is about tailor fitted now. Thanks, everyone, for your input. __________________ Breakthrough In Grey Room

February 15th, 2004, 06:56 PM	#2
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	I think the 4073a is the best bet for the parameters you've set here. Any mic is going to be handicapped by camera mounting, but the 4073a is going to be the best without going over your budget. The Sanken CS-1 would be over your limit but would be a good choice too. The 4073a can hook directly into your XLR adapter of the PDX-10. You shouldn't have any problems. In a loud situation you'll probably need to engage the Mic ATT switch. You'll also need something like thin neoprene, rubber or rubber O-rings to take up the slack in the mount. This mount is bigger in diameter than the standard 21mm AT body.

February 15th, 2004, 08:59 PM	#4
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	Yes I have a PD-x10. I very rarely use a mic on camera, but the further away you can get the mic the better. I know some people really like the Lightwave isolator that can go in the standard mount and gives extra shock protection and distance. It is pricey though. As for rigging your own extra wrap for the mic and using the standard mount, I think you'd have to find something handy or go to the hardware superstore. I commonly use thin strips cut from cheap mousepads for this. Also be aware of an oddity with this camera and capturing into most NLE's. The footage is tagged as mixed mono and I have to use SceneAlyser to capture to keep the audio channels split.

February 15th, 2004, 10:52 PM	#5
Marty Wein Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 229	I see that this mic is also offered as a kit for just $20.00 more and it includes the Right angle cable ($17.49) and Beyerdynamics Shockmount ($29.95). Tha cable is something you will need, and the shock mount may come in handy too, at least till you decide to spend on the Lightwave etc. Tha Sabrasom will be too big for such a small camera IMO.

February 16th, 2004, 05:48 AM	#6
Ralf Strandell Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 180	Not particularly delighted about this newly found "feature": "Also be aware of an oddity with this camera and capturing into most NLE's. The footage is tagged as mixed mono and I have to use SceneAlyser to capture to keep the audio channels split." - Does that mean that I won't be able to edit/adjust any stereo sound on my computer? Is the camera somehow incapable of recording proper stereo? - Does this problem relate only to M/S stereo and adjusting the stereo width or will there be a problem if I want filter the sound, for example? - I don't know what "mixed mono" means. Please educate. Links? Is it good for anything? - Someone said that one should record 32 kHz/12-bit only to be able to separate the stereo tracks. Does that have something to do with this "mixed mono"?

February 16th, 2004, 09:39 AM	#7
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	The camera records stereo just fine in 16-bit, 48k two-track mode. The problem comes in during capture to the computer. For some reason, many but not all NLE capture utilities mis-interpret the media "flag" on the PD-x10 originated footage. It thinks it's supposed to have both recorded tracks mixed together into a single centered track. This is called mixed mono. The NLE won't let you resplit or handle the two channels independently. In some cases this is actually a time saver, but normally it's not really what you will need to do. Once you capture it correctly, using SceneAlyser, your NLE will handle the audio editing just like normal. You'll have whatever control you'd have with other stereo or 2-channel mono files that come from any other camera. SceneAlyser is actually pretty powerful and handy for other things too and costs less than $40 to download. I think I have heard that this problem only happens when using the XLR adapter and 16-bit, but that's really the only professional way to record to this camera. It's the only way I've done it or would want to, so I haven't experimented with other ways to avoid this problem. SceneAlyser works great for me. You should download a free limited test and make sure it works with your computer first.

February 16th, 2004, 10:33 AM	#8
Martin Garrison Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 173	Jay, I'm curious what NLE software you use, and what others your aware of having this same incompatiblitiy.

February 17th, 2004, 07:38 AM	#10
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	I use Vegas. Since Sony has now purchased Sonic Foundry they may have a fix in place or in the works. I haven't been following the Vegas forums very closely for a while so I don't know anything new. Premiere was listed as an NLE that also had this problem, along with another that escapes me. Of course with new software updates or releases the problem could be fixed, so capture some footage as a test and see how your exact system handles it. It doesn't matter where you play the footage, it still exhibited the problem either from the camera or from a DVCAM deck with footage that was shot with a PD-x10.