Audio solution for jazz recording at DVinfo.net

Eddie Vaughn · February 11th, 2004, 06:52 PM

I'll be recording a jazz band in the next couple of weeks. Ive been doing this for a while and the ears tell me it's time for an upgraded approach on the audio, versus my on-camera mic from 20 yards.

As opposed to an elaborate setup, I need simplicity and unobtrusiveness, so would look to have a single mic, versus something elaborate such as miking each instrument.

The venue is a high school auditorium, and Im thinking a good approach would be to continue filming from my usual location to get long shots, but add a second camera like a GL-2 operated from the first row of the auditorium, and snake a cable to a mic on stands near or on the stage. That way, I'd get two-camera coverage as well as using the second camera as the primary audio device.

On a set up like this, what mic would the group recommend? Im hearing alot of good input on the AT 822. Is that a good choice? Should I go for the 825 (difference of which I think is XLR input)? Are two mono mics better than a single stereo unit?

I'm filming with an XL-1 now, and would like to avoid dropping a big wad on a second camera. Can I go for a single chip machine, or need something like the GL-2 to make the images more consistent between the two machines?

All input is appreciated!!

Eddie

Douglas Spotted Eagle · February 11th, 2004, 07:53 PM

2 comments from my end of the table...
1. Why not rent or borrow another XL1? Then matching is no big thing, they are usually quite close.
2. A GL is VERY easy to match to an XL, but you'll be color correcting anyway, so any cam will do if it's decent. Personally, I've come to like the GL cams better than the XL, excepting when I've got my broadcast lens on the XL. I only have one B'cast lens though...wish I had 3, one for each XL. So, most of our shoots are 1 XL and 2 GL's.
The 825 is an excellent mic. We've even used this on a boom in odd situations.

Matt Stahley · February 11th, 2004, 10:27 PM

Ive recorded some jazz shows with the 822 straight to MD both outside and indoors (school auditorium) with great results.I have also recorded some very loud metal shows with the same setup with great results as well.The822/5 are great mics IMO for this type of application.Though I prefer the louder rock setting. The loudness helps to drown out some crowd noise close to the mics.I will usually put it up on a boom stand in the middle - right behind the crowd of the venue.You will probably want to experiment with placement in a large auditorium.

Eddie Vaughn · February 12th, 2004, 07:27 AM

Thanks Matt and Douglas. I thought one advantage to this would be to place the mic near the stage to avoid the crowd noise, but you are suggesting the rear of the auditorium. Am I missing something? If I get that close, will I not get a good mix of sound?

Thanks again.

Jay Massengill · February 12th, 2004, 08:08 AM

I think in a round-about way he was saying for jazz you'd need to be closer to the stage. For typical jazz band sized groups, the front of the stage would be the recommended placement for a wide-field stereo mic like the AT822 or AT825.
The 825 has slightly better performance, but you'd have to adapt it if you're definitely wanting to use it with the GL2. But if you buy the 822 and then move up to an XLR-based system later, it's harder to adapt it up.
You may also want to consider the Rode NT-4 stereo mic, it can also run on an internal battery.
If you decide to use a mixer with phantom power, then you could also try the Rode NT-5 stereo pair or another pair of high-quality mono mics like AT3031. With 2 mono mics, you have less convenience but greater flexibility. Just be aware of the issues with spacing the mics away from each other and creating phase cancellation.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · February 12th, 2004, 08:25 AM

the 822 still is a 5 pin XLR output, just comes with a different connector, I believe.
But Eddie, you'll want to be as close to the stage with mics as possible to get a good mix. Find where the soundsystem speakers converge, it's called the sweet spot, and is generally near the mix console, but not always. It might be closer in, depending on the way the show is being mixed, whether the sound system is additive or complete. If it's additive, figure the distance by the width of the distance between speakers divided in half. That's the distance back from the stage you'd want to be for optimum results.

Jay Massengill · February 12th, 2004, 09:54 AM

The 822 has a 3-pin XLR, stereo unbalanced, and it's designed to run from internal battery only.

February 11th, 2004, 06:52 PM	#1
Eddie Vaughn New Boot Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Winston-Salem NC Posts: 17	Audio solution for jazz recording I'll be recording a jazz band in the next couple of weeks. Ive been doing this for a while and the ears tell me it's time for an upgraded approach on the audio, versus my on-camera mic from 20 yards. As opposed to an elaborate setup, I need simplicity and unobtrusiveness, so would look to have a single mic, versus something elaborate such as miking each instrument. The venue is a high school auditorium, and Im thinking a good approach would be to continue filming from my usual location to get long shots, but add a second camera like a GL-2 operated from the first row of the auditorium, and snake a cable to a mic on stands near or on the stage. That way, I'd get two-camera coverage as well as using the second camera as the primary audio device. On a set up like this, what mic would the group recommend? Im hearing alot of good input on the AT 822. Is that a good choice? Should I go for the 825 (difference of which I think is XLR input)? Are two mono mics better than a single stereo unit? I'm filming with an XL-1 now, and would like to avoid dropping a big wad on a second camera. Can I go for a single chip machine, or need something like the GL-2 to make the images more consistent between the two machines? All input is appreciated!! Eddie

February 11th, 2004, 07:53 PM	#2
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	2 comments from my end of the table... 1. Why not rent or borrow another XL1? Then matching is no big thing, they are usually quite close. 2. A GL is VERY easy to match to an XL, but you'll be color correcting anyway, so any cam will do if it's decent. Personally, I've come to like the GL cams better than the XL, excepting when I've got my broadcast lens on the XL. I only have one B'cast lens though...wish I had 3, one for each XL. So, most of our shoots are 1 XL and 2 GL's. The 825 is an excellent mic. We've even used this on a boom in odd situations. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

February 12th, 2004, 08:25 AM	#6
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	the 822 still is a 5 pin XLR output, just comes with a different connector, I believe. But Eddie, you'll want to be as close to the stage with mics as possible to get a good mix. Find where the soundsystem speakers converge, it's called the sweet spot, and is generally near the mix console, but not always. It might be closer in, depending on the way the show is being mixed, whether the sound system is additive or complete. If it's additive, figure the distance by the width of the distance between speakers divided in half. That's the distance back from the stage you'd want to be for optimum results. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

February 11th, 2004, 10:27 PM	#3
Matt Stahley Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Waynesboro, PA Posts: 648	Ive recorded some jazz shows with the 822 straight to MD both outside and indoors (school auditorium) with great results.I have also recorded some very loud metal shows with the same setup with great results as well.The822/5 are great mics IMO for this type of application.Though I prefer the louder rock setting. The loudness helps to drown out some crowd noise close to the mics.I will usually put it up on a boom stand in the middle - right behind the crowd of the venue.You will probably want to experiment with placement in a large auditorium.

February 12th, 2004, 07:27 AM	#4
Eddie Vaughn New Boot Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Winston-Salem NC Posts: 17	Thanks Matt and Douglas. I thought one advantage to this would be to place the mic near the stage to avoid the crowd noise, but you are suggesting the rear of the auditorium. Am I missing something? If I get that close, will I not get a good mix of sound? Thanks again.

February 12th, 2004, 08:08 AM	#5
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	I think in a round-about way he was saying for jazz you'd need to be closer to the stage. For typical jazz band sized groups, the front of the stage would be the recommended placement for a wide-field stereo mic like the AT822 or AT825. The 825 has slightly better performance, but you'd have to adapt it if you're definitely wanting to use it with the GL2. But if you buy the 822 and then move up to an XLR-based system later, it's harder to adapt it up. You may also want to consider the Rode NT-4 stereo mic, it can also run on an internal battery. If you decide to use a mixer with phantom power, then you could also try the Rode NT-5 stereo pair or another pair of high-quality mono mics like AT3031. With 2 mono mics, you have less convenience but greater flexibility. Just be aware of the issues with spacing the mics away from each other and creating phase cancellation.

February 12th, 2004, 09:54 AM	#7
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	The 822 has a 3-pin XLR, stereo unbalanced, and it's designed to run from internal battery only.