calibrating the SVU-1

Douglas Spotted Eagle · January 30th, 2004, 01:29 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Josh Bass : I didn't see how it makes sense before, but I think I do now, too low is too low, and too high is still to high, the numbers are just different:-->>>

yeah, this is true. It's a very simple explanation though. In analog, you've got a little flexibility. In Digital, you have none. Analog=forgiving
Digital=one mean bastard if you cross it's threshold.

Josh Bass · January 30th, 2004, 05:22 PM

Ok then, so where do I want to stay between, (for dialogue) with these new numerical values (on the SVU-1): they range from -21 to +6

Josh Bass · January 30th, 2004, 07:06 PM

Here's something weird--I can't turn the little screws that adjust the calibration past a certain point. It won't quite reach zero, that is, I can't adjust the SVU-1 so it reads 0 when the XL1s is at -12, the screws stop turning once the SVU-1's meter reaches 6. I'd rather not force anything

Martin Garrison · January 30th, 2004, 09:39 PM

Well that fits with what Douglas Spotted Eagle, has been saying. Put zero on the VU = -20 on the digital recorder. It's probably a good habit anyway, since that's now the standard.

Josh Bass · January 31st, 2004, 12:42 AM

Sorry, gents, that doesn't seem to work either. . .I can only turn the pots far enough to where, when the XL1s is displaying -20, the SVU will display -12, and then I get the hard stop from the pots.

Harry said:

"It appears that the XL1s does not have sufficient level from the RCA output jacks to drive the SVU-1 to read 0 VU. Did you try the same test during recording? You will have to see if you can change the AUDIO 1 RCA jacks to function as output during recording as they are normally used as input.

I'm not clear on how that would work; I've always used them for output only. Could that be part of the problem? The only input this SVU has is RCA.

Martin Garrison · January 31st, 2004, 09:04 AM

I have very little experience with the xl1, but I was under the impression, that when you are in camera mode, the audio rca jacks were inputs, and that that was the best way to get signal into the camera.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · January 31st, 2004, 10:28 AM

Were I you, I'd get a 2 mono to stereo mini cable, about 8" in length, and use the outs from the SVU to the mic in of the XL1. That's how we've always done this, truthfully I've never used the RCA inputs on the XL because they are also for the 12 bit/32K 4 channel operation of the cam. I've only used that lower quality feature to demonstrate the crappy sound that comes out of any cam at that sample rate.
You'll be fine with the mic in. Are you sure the RCA's aren't line in? I think they might be.

Josh Bass · January 31st, 2004, 11:12 AM

Uh. . .how do I know if the RCAs are line in? As for that stereo mini cable, can I get a longer one? One of the reasons I wanted the SVU was to be able to have someone who's not right near the cam monitoring the audio. . .like maybe just hold the unit in their hands and stare at it.

Do mini cables resemble RCA? In the shape and size, I mean?

Douglas Spotted Eagle · January 31st, 2004, 11:27 AM

Mini cables are like what plugs into your Walkman headphone plug. Look on the right side of your XL1, near the handle, where the mic cable plugs in. There are 2 connectors; one is sub-mini, that provides power to the mic. There is a mini-stereo, that provides sound from the mic to the camera.
RCA connectors look sorta like doughnuts. Metal outside, with a hole in the middle. RCA connectors on the XL1 are found under the trapdoor near the handle. I think this is what you are currently plugging into, no?
You can get a cable as long as you like, but if it's more than about 10 feet, you'll start to incur noise in the line due to loss of voltage from the SVU to the camera. So the person monitoring isn't hearing what the camera is hearing. If you want a long cable, have it be the headphone cable and keep the cable run as short as possible between the SVU1 and the camera.

Josh Bass · January 31st, 2004, 04:49 PM

Alright, thanks. I'll try it.

Josh Bass · February 1st, 2004, 10:35 AM

One thing that concerns me (haven't gotten the cable yet), if I plug into the mini plug, will the camera know what to do? I've never used anything but the RCA cables for audio out. . .don't have any experience with it. Any special settings or anything?

Will this work for both playback and recording? I've done all the tests so far during playback with a tape with tone recorded on it.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · February 1st, 2004, 12:45 PM

The miniplug is an INPUT only. Has nothing to do with output. Monitor from the camera by using the headphone out on the cam, so you you know what's going to tape. Output either via the RCA or Firewire outputs.

Josh Bass · February 1st, 2004, 04:26 PM

That's what I thought. . .what I meant was, how will the mini plug, if input only, connect to the SVU-1 in such a way as to send the audio signal to it? That's why I've been using RCA--I thought it was the only way to send a signal to the SVU.

Josh Bass · February 1st, 2004, 07:11 PM

Alright, so I sit here with many little cables and adapters around me, and have only gotten the unit to work by doing it the way I did the first time--the camera's RCA audio outs (on the back) to the SVU's audio in. I tried the mini-plug to RCA adapter, plugging the miniplug into where the shotgun mic (the one that came with the camera) usually plugs in. . .nothin'. What am I doing wrong? Can the submini plug at the back of the camera (between the RCA in/outs) be used to do anything?

*Put in later*

Alright, I've figured out one small piece of the puzzle--by attaching a male mini plug to male miniplug cable to the mic input on the handle (where the onboard shotgun goes), I can now power my beacktek XLR adapter by plugging the other end into it's auxilliary port (allowing me to get readings on the SVU from my ME66). This allows me to use the RCA connectors on the back to attach the SVU. Was this the idea all along, or am I still on the wrong track?

Josh Bass · February 4th, 2004, 03:00 AM

Alright. . .after exhaustive discussions with Harry, and Jay Rose, here's the deal: Neither through the Audio 1 RCA in/outs on the back of the XL1s, nor through the mini plug for the headphone jack (I don't see how the other miniplug can be used. . .please explain if it can), can you generate enough signal to allow the SVU-1 to be set to 0 when the camera is set to -12, the ideal for this camcorder. Harry at Beachtek says set 0 to 0, bad idea, according Jay Rose, for the aforementioned reasons.

So I'm confused; no one else out there who has an XL1s has ever bought an SVU-1? If so, how did they make it work for them?

January 30th, 2004, 01:29 PM	#16
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	<<<-- Originally posted by Josh Bass : I didn't see how it makes sense before, but I think I do now, too low is too low, and too high is still to high, the numbers are just different:-->>> yeah, this is true. It's a very simple explanation though. In analog, you've got a little flexibility. In Digital, you have none. Analog=forgiving Digital=one mean bastard if you cross it's threshold. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

January 30th, 2004, 05:22 PM	#17
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Ok then, so where do I want to stay between, (for dialogue) with these new numerical values (on the SVU-1): they range from -21 to +6 __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

January 30th, 2004, 07:06 PM	#18
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Here's something weird--I can't turn the little screws that adjust the calibration past a certain point. It won't quite reach zero, that is, I can't adjust the SVU-1 so it reads 0 when the XL1s is at -12, the screws stop turning once the SVU-1's meter reaches 6. I'd rather not force anything __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

January 31st, 2004, 12:42 AM	#20
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Sorry, gents, that doesn't seem to work either. . .I can only turn the pots far enough to where, when the XL1s is displaying -20, the SVU will display -12, and then I get the hard stop from the pots. Harry said: "It appears that the XL1s does not have sufficient level from the RCA output jacks to drive the SVU-1 to read 0 VU. Did you try the same test during recording? You will have to see if you can change the AUDIO 1 RCA jacks to function as output during recording as they are normally used as input. I'm not clear on how that would work; I've always used them for output only. Could that be part of the problem? The only input this SVU has is RCA. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

January 31st, 2004, 10:28 AM	#22
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Were I you, I'd get a 2 mono to stereo mini cable, about 8" in length, and use the outs from the SVU to the mic in of the XL1. That's how we've always done this, truthfully I've never used the RCA inputs on the XL because they are also for the 12 bit/32K 4 channel operation of the cam. I've only used that lower quality feature to demonstrate the crappy sound that comes out of any cam at that sample rate. You'll be fine with the mic in. Are you sure the RCA's aren't line in? I think they might be. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

January 30th, 2004, 09:39 PM	#19
Martin Garrison Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 173	Well that fits with what Douglas Spotted Eagle, has been saying. Put zero on the VU = -20 on the digital recorder. It's probably a good habit anyway, since that's now the standard.

January 31st, 2004, 09:04 AM	#21
Martin Garrison Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 173	I have very little experience with the xl1, but I was under the impression, that when you are in camera mode, the audio rca jacks were inputs, and that that was the best way to get signal into the camera.

January 31st, 2004, 11:12 AM	#23
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Uh. . .how do I know if the RCAs are line in? As for that stereo mini cable, can I get a longer one? One of the reasons I wanted the SVU was to be able to have someone who's not right near the cam monitoring the audio. . .like maybe just hold the unit in their hands and stare at it. Do mini cables resemble RCA? In the shape and size, I mean? __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

January 31st, 2004, 11:27 AM	#24
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Mini cables are like what plugs into your Walkman headphone plug. Look on the right side of your XL1, near the handle, where the mic cable plugs in. There are 2 connectors; one is sub-mini, that provides power to the mic. There is a mini-stereo, that provides sound from the mic to the camera. RCA connectors look sorta like doughnuts. Metal outside, with a hole in the middle. RCA connectors on the XL1 are found under the trapdoor near the handle. I think this is what you are currently plugging into, no? You can get a cable as long as you like, but if it's more than about 10 feet, you'll start to incur noise in the line due to loss of voltage from the SVU to the camera. So the person monitoring isn't hearing what the camera is hearing. If you want a long cable, have it be the headphone cable and keep the cable run as short as possible between the SVU1 and the camera. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

January 31st, 2004, 04:49 PM	#25
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Alright, thanks. I'll try it. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

February 1st, 2004, 10:35 AM	#26
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	One thing that concerns me (haven't gotten the cable yet), if I plug into the mini plug, will the camera know what to do? I've never used anything but the RCA cables for audio out. . .don't have any experience with it. Any special settings or anything? Will this work for both playback and recording? I've done all the tests so far during playback with a tape with tone recorded on it. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

February 1st, 2004, 12:45 PM	#27
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	The miniplug is an INPUT only. Has nothing to do with output. Monitor from the camera by using the headphone out on the cam, so you you know what's going to tape. Output either via the RCA or Firewire outputs. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

February 1st, 2004, 04:26 PM	#28
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	That's what I thought. . .what I meant was, how will the mini plug, if input only, connect to the SVU-1 in such a way as to send the audio signal to it? That's why I've been using RCA--I thought it was the only way to send a signal to the SVU. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

February 1st, 2004, 07:11 PM	#29
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Alright, so I sit here with many little cables and adapters around me, and have only gotten the unit to work by doing it the way I did the first time--the camera's RCA audio outs (on the back) to the SVU's audio in. I tried the mini-plug to RCA adapter, plugging the miniplug into where the shotgun mic (the one that came with the camera) usually plugs in. . .nothin'. What am I doing wrong? Can the submini plug at the back of the camera (between the RCA in/outs) be used to do anything? Put in later Alright, I've figured out one small piece of the puzzle--by attaching a male mini plug to male miniplug cable to the mic input on the handle (where the onboard shotgun goes), I can now power my beacktek XLR adapter by plugging the other end into it's auxilliary port (allowing me to get readings on the SVU from my ME66). This allows me to use the RCA connectors on the back to attach the SVU. Was this the idea all along, or am I still on the wrong track? __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

February 4th, 2004, 03:00 AM	#30
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Alright. . .after exhaustive discussions with Harry, and Jay Rose, here's the deal: Neither through the Audio 1 RCA in/outs on the back of the XL1s, nor through the mini plug for the headphone jack (I don't see how the other miniplug can be used. . .please explain if it can), can you generate enough signal to allow the SVU-1 to be set to 0 when the camera is set to -12, the ideal for this camcorder. Harry at Beachtek says set 0 to 0, bad idea, according Jay Rose, for the aforementioned reasons. So I'm confused; no one else out there who has an XL1s has ever bought an SVU-1? If so, how did they make it work for them? __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB