Mini DV Audio level in general at DVinfo.net

Markus Bo · January 27th, 2004, 01:56 PM

Hello,

I' m busy with a general problem I found out with MiniDV. May it be that MiniDV level is always lower than Beta for example? I connected a professional peak-meter on diferent minidv-sources and it always stayed much lower and just with a generated testsignal I reached "0". BTW: Meanwhile the XL1s control unit indicates sound is ok, the peakmeter stays quite lower.

Thanks for help,

Markus

Douglas Spotted Eagle · January 27th, 2004, 07:02 PM

Beta is analog, DV is digital. This means that DV needs to be -20dB compared to analog's zero. This is now the ATSC standard, so I suspect you'll see most NLE systems use -20dB for Bars and Tones. Vegas already does.

Markus Bo · January 28th, 2004, 01:43 AM

Thanks for this info but what about transfering DV to Beta. When I connect my Sony GVD1000 to a Beta it also stays to low. Does anybody has a good solution for transfer?

Best regards

Markus

Rob Wilson · January 28th, 2004, 10:00 AM

Markus,

Most Beta decks have an adjustable rec audio level. I would recommend playing your dv into the deck and adjusting the levels to peak just over 0 DB on the Beta deck VU's, then re-rack and record.

Markus Bo · January 28th, 2004, 10:09 AM

Thanks Rob,

I dedicated the whole day to check out different versions of copying. The aspect of an always lower digital level is the key. So the only way in deed is to put between an amplifier because the direct connection destroys quality while amplifying.

It's a very interesting problem that never before I really payed attention.

Markus

Douglas Spotted Eagle · January 28th, 2004, 10:45 AM

It's a lower level, but it IS a spec level.
Output of -20 on your DV cam should equal 0VU on your beta deck. Output tones from your NLE to your DV cam and use that for calibration, or buy a Calibug and use that to send tones for calibration.
There is a short article http://www.indigipix.com/digtoanalog.htm that might provide some insight if you are interested.

Joe Sacher · January 28th, 2004, 05:03 PM

Spot,

When mastering audio for DV, I've been aiming toward peaks of -3 dB. Basically, the highest final level without clipping. Does this translate into the correct Analog level for playback? It seems like it makes sense to use as high a level as possible for resolution, but I want to make sure I'm not over driving the sound when sending miniDV tapes to stations for broadcast. Or does it just not matter.

Second but related, the bar tone at -20 db (analog?) is 0 db (digital), right? I think I'm confusing myself. I may have to go home and do some tests.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · January 28th, 2004, 05:09 PM

You've got the digital/analog tones backwards. Output tones from digital at -20dBFS and match that to 0VU.
On your digital device, you should be mastering to as close to 0dBFS as you can. We keep our WAVES Ultra set to -.03, so it's peak point is raised to there with a very mild compression. Ozone's iZotope can be safely set to -.01dBFS, but I've not used that as much.

Joe Sacher · January 28th, 2004, 06:41 PM

OK, so I'm right for reasons that I understand incorrectly. :)

As far as abbreviations, I assume dbFS is decibel Full Scale, right?

Douglas Spotted Eagle · January 28th, 2004, 06:51 PM

Yes indeed. Full scale is so much easier than having to deal with all the other scaling norms of the analog world, don't you think?

Mike Costantini · February 20th, 2004, 12:58 AM

LOVE your book !

Derek Weiss · July 25th, 2006, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

It's a lower level, but it IS a spec level.
Output of -20 on your DV cam should equal 0VU on your beta deck. Output tones from your NLE to your DV cam and use that for calibration, or buy a Calibug and use that to send tones for calibration.
.

links removed by moderator. Files may be found at:
http://www.vasst.com/resource.aspx?i...d-4d9164030037

Douglas Spotted Eagle · July 26th, 2006, 07:27 AM

Yikes!!!
Until now, we were unaware that site had been taken over. We had a number of sites compromised a while back when a guy named Gary Kleiner bought domains related to my name and VASST's name, and redirected them. We were unaware that this one too, was messed with. It's not a site we pay attention to any longer (obviously).
You can find the same article guaranteed to be safe as I've just re-uploaded it, at:
http://www.vasst.com/resource.aspx?i...d-4d9164030037

Apologies to anyone inconvenienced.

Derek Weiss · July 26th, 2006, 05:05 PM

Thanks DGE, always helpful.

January 27th, 2004, 01:56 PM	#1
Markus Bo Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Ingelheim (Rheinland-Pfalz) Posts: 140	Mini DV Audio level in general Hello, I' m busy with a general problem I found out with MiniDV. May it be that MiniDV level is always lower than Beta for example? I connected a professional peak-meter on diferent minidv-sources and it always stayed much lower and just with a generated testsignal I reached "0". BTW: Meanwhile the XL1s control unit indicates sound is ok, the peakmeter stays quite lower. Thanks for help, Markus

January 27th, 2004, 07:02 PM	#2
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Beta is analog, DV is digital. This means that DV needs to be -20dB compared to analog's zero. This is now the ATSC standard, so I suspect you'll see most NLE systems use -20dB for Bars and Tones. Vegas already does. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

January 28th, 2004, 10:45 AM	#6
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	It's a lower level, but it IS a spec level. Output of -20 on your DV cam should equal 0VU on your beta deck. Output tones from your NLE to your DV cam and use that for calibration, or buy a Calibug and use that to send tones for calibration. There is a short article http://www.indigipix.com/digtoanalog.htm that might provide some insight if you are interested. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

January 28th, 2004, 05:09 PM	#8
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	You've got the digital/analog tones backwards. Output tones from digital at -20dBFS and match that to 0VU. On your digital device, you should be mastering to as close to 0dBFS as you can. We keep our WAVES Ultra set to -.03, so it's peak point is raised to there with a very mild compression. Ozone's iZotope can be safely set to -.01dBFS, but I've not used that as much. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

January 28th, 2004, 06:51 PM	#10
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Yes indeed. Full scale is so much easier than having to deal with all the other scaling norms of the analog world, don't you think? __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

January 28th, 2004, 01:43 AM	#3
Markus Bo Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Ingelheim (Rheinland-Pfalz) Posts: 140	Thanks for this info but what about transfering DV to Beta. When I connect my Sony GVD1000 to a Beta it also stays to low. Does anybody has a good solution for transfer? Best regards Markus

January 28th, 2004, 10:00 AM	#4
Rob Wilson Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Posts: 473	Markus, Most Beta decks have an adjustable rec audio level. I would recommend playing your dv into the deck and adjusting the levels to peak just over 0 DB on the Beta deck VU's, then re-rack and record.

January 28th, 2004, 10:09 AM	#5
Markus Bo Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Ingelheim (Rheinland-Pfalz) Posts: 140	Thanks Rob, I dedicated the whole day to check out different versions of copying. The aspect of an always lower digital level is the key. So the only way in deed is to put between an amplifier because the direct connection destroys quality while amplifying. It's a very interesting problem that never before I really payed attention. Markus

January 28th, 2004, 05:03 PM	#7
Joe Sacher Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 177	Spot, When mastering audio for DV, I've been aiming toward peaks of -3 dB. Basically, the highest final level without clipping. Does this translate into the correct Analog level for playback? It seems like it makes sense to use as high a level as possible for resolution, but I want to make sure I'm not over driving the sound when sending miniDV tapes to stations for broadcast. Or does it just not matter. Second but related, the bar tone at -20 db (analog?) is 0 db (digital), right? I think I'm confusing myself. I may have to go home and do some tests.

January 28th, 2004, 06:41 PM	#9
Joe Sacher Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 177	OK, so I'm right for reasons that I understand incorrectly. :) As far as abbreviations, I assume dbFS is decibel Full Scale, right?

February 20th, 2004, 12:58 AM	#11
Mike Costantini Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 154	for the spotted eagle... LOVE your book !

July 26th, 2006, 07:27 AM	#13
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Yikes!!! Until now, we were unaware that site had been taken over. We had a number of sites compromised a while back when a guy named Gary Kleiner bought domains related to my name and VASST's name, and redirected them. We were unaware that this one too, was messed with. It's not a site we pay attention to any longer (obviously). You can find the same article guaranteed to be safe as I've just re-uploaded it, at: http://www.vasst.com/resource.aspx?i...d-4d9164030037 Apologies to anyone inconvenienced. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

July 26th, 2006, 05:05 PM	#14
Derek Weiss Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 214	Thanks DGE, always helpful.