wireless lapel on a budget--is it real at DVinfo.net

Nick Brennan · January 19th, 2004, 12:40 AM

hello
ive been on the web for about 4 hours looking for a decent wireless lapel mic system....i need the mic, the transmitter, and the reciever.....everywhere i went they were really really over my head and they seemed to be all sold separately....

can i really not get a decent wireless mic kit for under $200 bucks?

or does anyone know of a good database of info where i could see a large selection....? thanks room, im gonna go donate some blood to make extra money for my lapel mic......

Don Bloom · January 19th, 2004, 06:46 AM

To get a "Decent" wireless, transmitter/receiver and mic NEW for under $200 is pretty much a daydream. HOWEVER, there are options. 1)Buy used-you still probably won't find a really good one but if you keep your eyes open you might be able to get ahold of a decent one-

2) sell more blood and save up until you have around $400 then start looking - I know it's double the money but hinestly to get a DECENT unit you'll need to be in that area.

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful,
Don

Nick Brennan · January 19th, 2004, 07:06 AM

bring on the red cross and orange juice....yea haww!

but really, the senhieser the is best way to go once i have saved the money?

Nathan Gifford · January 19th, 2004, 08:24 AM

You might be able to find a VHF system in that price range, but be aware that there are all kinds of interference problems that may vex you.

And yes, I thing the Sennheiser Evolution 100 systems is one of the best deals on the market.

Dave Largent · January 19th, 2004, 04:55 PM

I would recommend the Airline. Never heard a bad word about it, from anyone who's actually used it. I have it myself. Works fine. Get 80 to 100 feet "line of sight" before drop outs.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=219777&is=REG

Douglas Spotted Eagle · January 19th, 2004, 05:32 PM

Here I go recommending an AT system again, they've got a very nice little VHF system that's reliable out to about 80 feet, but I'd never trust any VHF that far. We've used it on a GL2 for many interviews at distances of about 15 feet. We ran into one noise/interference issue once, and that's it. Both receiver and transmitter are battery powered. You can buy with a couple mic choices, the ATR 35 comes stock on it. Mic's are connected via consumer 1/8 connectors. Has a headphone out for monitoring the signal direct. For 120.00, it's very hard to beat. They also offer a balanced adaptor for about 10.00 more.
http://www.audiotechnica.com/guide/wireless/PRO88W.html

http://www.sweetronics.com/audio-technica-pro-88w.html

Definitely not the best solution, but for a budget production, it's a very nice sounding solution.

Marcia Janine Galles · January 20th, 2004, 06:09 PM

Dave, I'm confused about something regarding the Airline. I checked the B & H link you posted, and if I understand it correctly, it doesn't require a lav? The AT MT350 is packed with it, so when would use it with or without the external? How powerful is this little set-up with/without the external? Indoors only w/ no appreciable interference? Outdoors ok, but not great? What I'm wondering is how great it's going to pick up two people standing/sitting together if this thing is clipped at waist level. Seems like a stretch, and that I'd have to go with the external. Which brings up... is that a respectable but not great external lav that they have packaged with it?

Basically I'm needing to save money, but will need to pick up more than one person at a time, eg. two (to several) people standing/sitting together outdoors, in a home, and in a big dining hall. And I'm operating under the assumption that I need two lavs, two transmiters, two receivers. This got my attention owing to the price.

Dave Largent · January 20th, 2004, 06:40 PM

Hi Marcia,
The trasmitter has an inbuilt microphone with a clip
with a spring on the back so that you can clip it to
a persons pocket. Of course, it's a bit heavier than
a lav mic. Mostly how I've used it is plug the lav into
the transmitter, drop the transmitter into the persons
inner or outer pocket (not much of a buldge cuz it's the smallest transmitter made) and clip the lav on the
lapel or near a button or at the top of shirt. Due to
the lav having no weight to it, the person won't even
notice it there.
Seems to work about the same indoors or out.
For two people, best to clip the transmitter to pants
with the attached belt clip and run the lav to the center of chest area. Or like I said, just slip into a pocket.
Regarding the lav quality, it is better than I expected.
No problems. I've only heard good things said about
this system.
Unless the people talking are within a few feet, best to use two systems. The systems come in six different
frequencies so you can use six at once.
Best thing about this system is it's small, light, and quick.
And it's easy to use. I just put the transmitter's gain to max and put the lav about a hand span down from the
mouth.
When I first got it I was a bit skeptical cuz it was so lite weight and plastic-ee. But once I heard how good it sounded ....
Anymore questions, ask away.

Dan Brown · January 21st, 2004, 08:30 AM

Dave, thanks for the detailed report on the Samson Airline.

I've been waffling on a wireless (well, waffling on sound in general), but I'm getting close to shooting time and need to make a decision.

As an amatuer, the low price of the Airline is appealing. So is the small size and light weight. In fact. using two Airlines into the mic-level input of my Pana DV852 seems like a good compromise for exterior shooting, especially with a minimal/inexperienced crew. I could forego the Beachtec, boom pole, sound guy, etc. Clip one transmitter on each 'talent' and focus on the camera work. In post, I'd have the two audio tracks to work with.

The transmitter part of the Airline seems like it would make a convenient 'plant' even without the MT350 attached.

With the two receivers mounted on-camera, I could use a steadicam/glidecam without the problem of dangling wires or separate audio recording gear. Although I couldn't use the headphones.

What's the down-side of these approaches? Poorer audio quality? Radio interference & dropout? Range? Background noise (vis-a-vis a cardioid on boompole)? Durability?

Thanks.

Dave Largent · January 21st, 2004, 12:58 PM

Audio quality should be alright, though you may get less ambient, which may not be a bad thing. One thing nice about a lav versus boom pole is you're getting the
mic real close to the mouth so this will yield a full sound due to the proximity effect.
I haven't used the Airline much, but I've never had any radio interference, nor have I been able to find any mention of anyone else having it, either.
Outdoors, I got 80 feet line-of-sight distance before
drop outs began. Indoors, the max I've tried it out at was about 50 feet, and I had no drop outs at that distance.
From the little I've used the system, I don't think
durability would be an issue.
What type of project are you working on? And how are
you planning to split off the audio into left and right
channels if you're not using a Beachtek?
And what about the possibility of using wireless
headphones with a steadicam? Which steadicam
are you looking at?
I notice you mention "exterior" shooting. Wind blast will be an issue with any mic used outdoors. What are your plans for dealing with the wind?

Marcia Janine Galles · January 21st, 2004, 02:45 PM

Dave, I'm gonna butt back in here and ask another question...

If I want to shoot a group of kids sitting on the grass, listening to two "speakers" each in turn, and I have the two "speakers" set up with airlines, does the receiver have to remain line of sight to pick them up? The reason I'm asking is I'd like to shoot the speakers as well as the kid's reactions, and if I have the two receivers mounted on my cam, won't it all go to heck when I turn away from the speakers to shoot the kids? Do I need to rigg the receivers up on light stands or something? And any suggestions as to how? (Kinda thinking as I'm typing here...) Come to think of it, that's not a bad idea... would have to have their feed going into something else then (like the Marantz - PMD something - compact flash recorder, though it's pricey), but then I could catch the kids reacting with my ME66 on my camera, recorded to tape, though there'd be a LOT of noise I realize. Hmmmm... what to do, what to do. I just can't see booms working well for this...

Dan Brown · January 21st, 2004, 02:55 PM

Thanks Dave:

I'm working on a short comedy with about half shot out of doors (apartment parking lot and front yard of a residence) and half shot indoors (residential). I do want some sound of a vehicle driving.

I was going to use my two Oktava M012 cardioids. Either planted, or on a large stand/boom combo I picked up at B&H. I got some decent foam screens for them too (Windtech Ultra Series) and shock mount. Original plan was to place talent carefully beneath the mic, and then do multiple takes as needed. Ambient, first talent, second talent, etc.

I always felt a need for wireless, when doing the moving vehicle stuff (tire roar, brakes, car stereo sound, etc.).

After reading all the great info here on DVi, I'm starting to think that lavs would give me better audio, and that wireless would be much more flexible. Dunno about wind protection for the lavs, maybe there are some decent little screens for them. I also have some control to shoot on relatively calm days.

Any comments will be appreciated.

Cheers...

Dave Largent · January 21st, 2004, 03:12 PM

Marcia,
What camera(s) are you using? And will you be working alone, or will you have assistance?

Dave Largent · January 21st, 2004, 03:22 PM

Dan,
You've got the 012s? I've been thinking about
looking into the Oktavas. How do you like them?
Have you ever tried them with music? Where is
a good place to make a purchase?

Marcia Janine Galles · January 21st, 2004, 03:27 PM

Dave, I'm using the DVX100, and am probably going to get the Wondercam Mini Rover cam grip (or similar mount) which I can then (for most uses other than the above scenario) attach the wireless to (on the top connector), or the shotgun on it's shoe, while using a little Frezzi as needed on the cam shoe for night. I'm assuming that since the airline is so small that two receivers would be able to rest on the bridge, but dunno. Need to find out more.

Insofar as will I have assistance, that's the big question at present. I started a thread about that under the Open forum called "Project viability question (or "Am I nuts?"). The latter, most assuredly. :-) Lots of grants out and no takers to date, but there's still time. Come May I have to decide to go it alone or scratch. I may snag some good hearted help alone the way, but w/o a budget, it's not going to be pro. I'm operating under the assumption at the moment that I'll be alone, or close to it, so I can be problem solving to that end.

January 19th, 2004, 12:40 AM	#1
Nick Brennan Tourist Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: United States Posts: 2	wireless lapel on a budget--is it real hello ive been on the web for about 4 hours looking for a decent wireless lapel mic system....i need the mic, the transmitter, and the reciever.....everywhere i went they were really really over my head and they seemed to be all sold separately.... can i really not get a decent wireless mic kit for under $200 bucks? or does anyone know of a good database of info where i could see a large selection....? thanks room, im gonna go donate some blood to make extra money for my lapel mic......

January 19th, 2004, 07:06 AM	#3
Nick Brennan Tourist Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: United States Posts: 2	oh bring on the red cross and orange juice....yea haww! but really, the senhieser the is best way to go once i have saved the money?

January 19th, 2004, 08:24 AM	#4
Nathan Gifford Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Tickfaw, LA Posts: 1,217	You might be able to find a VHF system in that price range, but be aware that there are all kinds of interference problems that may vex you. And yes, I thing the Sennheiser Evolution 100 systems is one of the best deals on the market. __________________ Nathan Gifford Southern Cyclist Magazine & Productions For quick answers try our Search! To see me and Rob Lohman click here

January 19th, 2004, 05:32 PM	#6
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Here I go recommending an AT system again, they've got a very nice little VHF system that's reliable out to about 80 feet, but I'd never trust any VHF that far. We've used it on a GL2 for many interviews at distances of about 15 feet. We ran into one noise/interference issue once, and that's it. Both receiver and transmitter are battery powered. You can buy with a couple mic choices, the ATR 35 comes stock on it. Mic's are connected via consumer 1/8 connectors. Has a headphone out for monitoring the signal direct. For 120.00, it's very hard to beat. They also offer a balanced adaptor for about 10.00 more. http://www.audiotechnica.com/guide/wireless/PRO88W.html http://www.sweetronics.com/audio-technica-pro-88w.html Definitely not the best solution, but for a budget production, it's a very nice sounding solution. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

January 21st, 2004, 08:30 AM	#9
Dan Brown Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Fort Worth, Texas Posts: 235	Dave, thanks for the detailed report on the Samson Airline. I've been waffling on a wireless (well, waffling on sound in general), but I'm getting close to shooting time and need to make a decision. As an amatuer, the low price of the Airline is appealing. So is the small size and light weight. In fact. using two Airlines into the mic-level input of my Pana DV852 seems like a good compromise for exterior shooting, especially with a minimal/inexperienced crew. I could forego the Beachtec, boom pole, sound guy, etc. Clip one transmitter on each 'talent' and focus on the camera work. In post, I'd have the two audio tracks to work with. The transmitter part of the Airline seems like it would make a convenient 'plant' even without the MT350 attached. With the two receivers mounted on-camera, I could use a steadicam/glidecam without the problem of dangling wires or separate audio recording gear. Although I couldn't use the headphones. What's the down-side of these approaches? Poorer audio quality? Radio interference & dropout? Range? Background noise (vis-a-vis a cardioid on boompole)? Durability? Thanks. __________________ dB

January 19th, 2004, 06:46 AM	#2
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	To get a "Decent" wireless, transmitter/receiver and mic NEW for under $200 is pretty much a daydream. HOWEVER, there are options. 1)Buy used-you still probably won't find a really good one but if you keep your eyes open you might be able to get ahold of a decent one- 2) sell more blood and save up until you have around $400 then start looking - I know it's double the money but hinestly to get a DECENT unit you'll need to be in that area. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful, Don

January 19th, 2004, 04:55 PM	#5
Dave Largent Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,483	I would recommend the Airline. Never heard a bad word about it, from anyone who's actually used it. I have it myself. Works fine. Get 80 to 100 feet "line of sight" before drop outs. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=219777&is=REG

January 20th, 2004, 06:09 PM	#7
Marcia Janine Galles Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Camarillo, CA Posts: 340	Dave, I'm confused about something regarding the Airline. I checked the B & H link you posted, and if I understand it correctly, it doesn't require a lav? The AT MT350 is packed with it, so when would use it with or without the external? How powerful is this little set-up with/without the external? Indoors only w/ no appreciable interference? Outdoors ok, but not great? What I'm wondering is how great it's going to pick up two people standing/sitting together if this thing is clipped at waist level. Seems like a stretch, and that I'd have to go with the external. Which brings up... is that a respectable but not great external lav that they have packaged with it? Basically I'm needing to save money, but will need to pick up more than one person at a time, eg. two (to several) people standing/sitting together outdoors, in a home, and in a big dining hall. And I'm operating under the assumption that I need two lavs, two transmiters, two receivers. This got my attention owing to the price.

January 20th, 2004, 06:40 PM	#8
Dave Largent Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,483	Hi Marcia, The trasmitter has an inbuilt microphone with a clip with a spring on the back so that you can clip it to a persons pocket. Of course, it's a bit heavier than a lav mic. Mostly how I've used it is plug the lav into the transmitter, drop the transmitter into the persons inner or outer pocket (not much of a buldge cuz it's the smallest transmitter made) and clip the lav on the lapel or near a button or at the top of shirt. Due to the lav having no weight to it, the person won't even notice it there. Seems to work about the same indoors or out. For two people, best to clip the transmitter to pants with the attached belt clip and run the lav to the center of chest area. Or like I said, just slip into a pocket. Regarding the lav quality, it is better than I expected. No problems. I've only heard good things said about this system. Unless the people talking are within a few feet, best to use two systems. The systems come in six different frequencies so you can use six at once. Best thing about this system is it's small, light, and quick. And it's easy to use. I just put the transmitter's gain to max and put the lav about a hand span down from the mouth. When I first got it I was a bit skeptical cuz it was so lite weight and plastic-ee. But once I heard how good it sounded .... Anymore questions, ask away.

January 21st, 2004, 12:58 PM	#10
Dave Largent Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,483	Audio quality should be alright, though you may get less ambient, which may not be a bad thing. One thing nice about a lav versus boom pole is you're getting the mic real close to the mouth so this will yield a full sound due to the proximity effect. I haven't used the Airline much, but I've never had any radio interference, nor have I been able to find any mention of anyone else having it, either. Outdoors, I got 80 feet line-of-sight distance before drop outs began. Indoors, the max I've tried it out at was about 50 feet, and I had no drop outs at that distance. From the little I've used the system, I don't think durability would be an issue. What type of project are you working on? And how are you planning to split off the audio into left and right channels if you're not using a Beachtek? And what about the possibility of using wireless headphones with a steadicam? Which steadicam are you looking at? I notice you mention "exterior" shooting. Wind blast will be an issue with any mic used outdoors. What are your plans for dealing with the wind?

January 21st, 2004, 02:45 PM	#11
Marcia Janine Galles Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Camarillo, CA Posts: 340	Dave, I'm gonna butt back in here and ask another question... If I want to shoot a group of kids sitting on the grass, listening to two "speakers" each in turn, and I have the two "speakers" set up with airlines, does the receiver have to remain line of sight to pick them up? The reason I'm asking is I'd like to shoot the speakers as well as the kid's reactions, and if I have the two receivers mounted on my cam, won't it all go to heck when I turn away from the speakers to shoot the kids? Do I need to rigg the receivers up on light stands or something? And any suggestions as to how? (Kinda thinking as I'm typing here...) Come to think of it, that's not a bad idea... would have to have their feed going into something else then (like the Marantz - PMD something - compact flash recorder, though it's pricey), but then I could catch the kids reacting with my ME66 on my camera, recorded to tape, though there'd be a LOT of noise I realize. Hmmmm... what to do, what to do. I just can't see booms working well for this...

January 21st, 2004, 02:55 PM	#12
Dan Brown Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Fort Worth, Texas Posts: 235	Thanks Dave: I'm working on a short comedy with about half shot out of doors (apartment parking lot and front yard of a residence) and half shot indoors (residential). I do want some sound of a vehicle driving. I was going to use my two Oktava M012 cardioids. Either planted, or on a large stand/boom combo I picked up at B&H. I got some decent foam screens for them too (Windtech Ultra Series) and shock mount. Original plan was to place talent carefully beneath the mic, and then do multiple takes as needed. Ambient, first talent, second talent, etc. I always felt a need for wireless, when doing the moving vehicle stuff (tire roar, brakes, car stereo sound, etc.). After reading all the great info here on DVi, I'm starting to think that lavs would give me better audio, and that wireless would be much more flexible. Dunno about wind protection for the lavs, maybe there are some decent little screens for them. I also have some control to shoot on relatively calm days. Any comments will be appreciated. Cheers... __________________ dB

January 21st, 2004, 03:12 PM	#13
Dave Largent Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,483	Marcia, What camera(s) are you using? And will you be working alone, or will you have assistance?

January 21st, 2004, 03:22 PM	#14
Dave Largent Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,483	Dan, You've got the 012s? I've been thinking about looking into the Oktavas. How do you like them? Have you ever tried them with music? Where is a good place to make a purchase?

January 21st, 2004, 03:27 PM	#15
Marcia Janine Galles Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Camarillo, CA Posts: 340	Dave, I'm using the DVX100, and am probably going to get the Wondercam Mini Rover cam grip (or similar mount) which I can then (for most uses other than the above scenario) attach the wireless to (on the top connector), or the shotgun on it's shoe, while using a little Frezzi as needed on the cam shoe for night. I'm assuming that since the airline is so small that two receivers would be able to rest on the bridge, but dunno. Need to find out more. Insofar as will I have assistance, that's the big question at present. I started a thread about that under the Open forum called "Project viability question (or "Am I nuts?"). The latter, most assuredly. :-) Lots of grants out and no takers to date, but there's still time. Come May I have to decide to go it alone or scratch. I may snag some good hearted help alone the way, but w/o a budget, it's not going to be pro. I'm operating under the assumption at the moment that I'll be alone, or close to it, so I can be problem solving to that end.