Rich, deep, trailer-type voice effect

Matt Gettemeier · January 5th, 2004, 09:30 PM

John... let me make this CLEAR. This is why I've been posting LIKE A NUT over the last week. Maybe a DVX is just that good, but I doubt it.

When I say the audio chain is MIC-DVX-YOUR EARS... I mean JUST that.

I have NO special processors or ancillary equipment. What you heard is a BONE stock Rode NTK that comes with it's own little tube amp... (not little)... anyway, you plug in the amp, plug in the mic and start making magic.

THAT'S IT. Pretty cool huh?

I have TONS of stuff out of this mic that's just simply amazing.

John Locke · January 5th, 2004, 09:51 PM

Okay, everyone... with Matt's approval I've uploaded the sound sample for you. It's his friend, Jay...and he sounds as silky as a DJ (Matt mentions that if anyone wants to hire Jay, just contact Matt by e-mail).

Matt,

Here's the link to your mic at B&H Photo Video. A bit pricey, but the sound is so rich it's going to be hard not to invest in this.

I wonder if there are slightly cheaper models with the same quality output? Worth investigating.

Matt Gettemeier · January 5th, 2004, 11:44 PM

If you click "add to cart" you'll see that the price is $499... If you keep a REAL close eye on Guitar Center they sometimes have a "2-day" sale... When they say this... IT IS NO LIE... DROP everything and go in!

I got that complete mic w/ tube pre and cables for $373. Top that.

Hey I gotta' appologize to you guys for laughing on this clip. If this thread maintains interest then I'll get him back over here to do some clean work.

The reason I broke into laughter is because I have a couple friends that I showed this mic to, and as I explained how to get the best of the mic they acted like I was nuts.

"Oh, I've used a mic before..."

If you could see Jay's face as he heard his voice sound like that you'd be laughing too. He looked up like "Buckwheat" from Saturday Night Live... but then he continued to talk like that.

If you can imagine that then you see why I couldn't stop laughing.

John Locke · January 5th, 2004, 11:49 PM

Well, now... that's definitely something to keep an eye out for. Great information, Matt!

Matt Gettemeier · January 6th, 2004, 12:01 AM

John, I gotta' tell ya'...

I thought the NT1a sounded great also. It's $199

For another hundred you can get the NT1000. It's $299

If you want a tube mic with tube pre then it's the NTK. $499

As far as the NTK I already mentioned the GREAT deals possible on this mic and really I expect those deals to get MORE common.

Why?

Rode has an upgrade model from the NTK... now called K2. $599

K2 is STILL a tube mice WITH a tube pre, but it has a fully variable pattern from omni to cardioid to figure eight... and AMAZINGLY enough... ANYTHING INBETWEEN!

If you don't want the tubes in the mic or a tube pre then you would go with the NT2000 for $499.

NT2000 is IDENTICAL design to the K2 in a NON-TUBE version... all else is the same.

I'm a HUGE fan of the tubes for their sound, but honestly I like to be able to take anything and everything with me on some shoots. That tube pre is not something you want to tote around. However the excellent sonic character is sure worth it...

As it turns out I sold the NTK for what I paid and I'm going to try the NT2000. If I don't like that better then I'll buy another NTK when the next sale hits. Even at $499 it's a great deal.

My shotgun cost $30 more then that and it still needed a crap-load more support gear.

That mic is plug and play. Maybe a $49 shockmount if you want, but that's it.

John Locke · January 6th, 2004, 12:16 AM

Matt,

Portability was one thing I was considering. Also, I was wondering how just getting a preamp and using it with my existing mics would sound.

Here's one portable unit I just found and here's another.

Matt Gettemeier · January 6th, 2004, 12:40 AM

The NTK and K2 are TUBE mics with TUBE pre-amps... ALL tube... touch the mic after 10 minutes. It's WARM. That is what gives it the lively and bassy character.

I'm hoping that if I go with the NT2000 that it will APPROACH that.

The main thing you need if you don't get a tube mic is a large 1" diaphragm mic... you can finesse proximity with clarity.

I'll bet if you watch "that trailer guy" that he moves in and out of the mic a very slight bit. Push in for bass, pull back as you articulate crisp endings of words and sentences.

I'm telling you that if you put on a set of 7506's and spend a couple hours with a mic like this you really get to know your own voice.

Before you pop cash on a tube pre, make sure you have a large diaphragm mic.

Jan Roovers · January 6th, 2004, 03:21 AM

Mat,

As an engineer from TU Delft I look at tubes this way:

Tubes are known for there harmonic kind of distortions that sound better for the ear. When the tranistor came up the harmonics introduced that typical transistor sound. But that was in the past. The FET transistor improved that. Chips are basically built on transistortechnology.

Nowadays we don't want to hear any distortion, so the difference in harmonic distortion must be lower then what we all can hear.
The feedback technology makes it easily possible to reach that and is widely used.
(Quad was the first to introduce this technics in their mainamplifiers.)

The disadvantage of tubes is that they get warm and get older and change there behaviour. So they have to be refreshed on a regular base. The new tube will never be the same. So tubes sell a dream.
Also they shall not give any character ( bassy or live) to an amplifier at all.

Myself I will never, never buy any tube amplifier.
The idea only that they need to get warm to get on sound gives me headache.

As a result I would think the NT1000 or NT 2000 will sound better on the end as the NTK.

And the sound of those Rodes are the best I ever heard.

Peter Jefferson · January 7th, 2004, 05:20 AM

there are many tube amp plugins as well as a niftylittle mic plugin called "Antares Microphone Modeller"

this app emualtes pretty much any make or model mike from a list of presets. You first input your source mic (or teh closest t it) then u select ur output "mic" source and your sound is adjsuted according to values of that aprticualr mic.

Quite good really :)

Jan Roovers · January 7th, 2004, 06:11 AM

Those plugins don't amplify but colour the signal. So those plugins are used as an effect plugin.

Amplifying means and must mean that the output is x times the input without any colour or distortion. (not audible)

The harmonic distortions of those plugins can be used for special effects for instance 'year 60' effects or in your case simulate different mics. But basically we are talking about soundprocessing.

But this effect will be superimposed on the character and defects of the inputmic. That will constrain the result of the final effect.

I don't think that it will be possible to simulate any mic of 1000 euro, with a mic of 60 euro.
But I think it will be very possible to simulate a mic of euro 60 with a mic of euro 1000.

But I don't think that this plugin and a omnidirectional mic possibly can simulate a (hyper-) cardiode or shortgun mic.

I have seen that plugin. The idea is fun, but I don't think that the goal must be to simulate a mic, but to get the optimal pleasing sound at the end.

Better would be if that plugin was used to normalise the mics behaviour as much as possible for further soundprocessing.
I think that would be an interesting idea!

John Locke · January 7th, 2004, 06:11 AM

Peter,

I checked out the Antares "Tube" plugin. It says it requires (RTAS, VST) on Mac OSX. I really don't know what that is...can you shed some light? Does it require something like PeakDV or is it a stand-alone program?

P.S. Jan, here's the description of the "tube" plug-in

Quote:

In addition to the tube models, Tube includes a unique OmniTube function. Without OmniTube engaged, Tube functions exactly like a tube preamp, i.e., only the regions of the input signal that exceed the clipping level (typically transients) are affected and all other regions are passed with no change. With OmniTube on, a compressor is inserted into the signal path before the tube model. This compressor is set to compress the signal and then apply sufficient makeup gain to ensure that Tube's Drive control can drive the entire signal above the clipping level. After the tube effect is applied to the entire signal, an inverse gain function restores the signal's original dynamics.

- from Anterestech.com

Have you tried this type plug-in?

Peter Wiley · January 7th, 2004, 07:31 AM

Those on a budget might want to look at the Studio Projects line of mics. for voice over. They are inexpensive and have gotten some very good reviews.

On the C1 see:

http://mixonline.com/ar/audio_studio_projects/

Bryan Beasleigh · January 7th, 2004, 10:17 AM

I tried the NT1A, the Rode Broadcaster and the NT2000. there is a big difference in the quality between the NT1A and the others at the mid to upper end. The NT1A can sound raspy (to my ears anyway) , the Broadcaster was OK but the NT2000 just blew the other 2 away. I couldn't overload the NT2000 even though I swallowed the mic, that's what gives you the phat sound. The NT2000 is close and i would say much better than the broadcaster. it does a lot more with the switchable patterns and variable low filter

I have clips of the NT1A comparing to an ME66. These were done before we (Matt , Dave and myself ) started doing this in a shorter and more precise manner. I'd get a mic and just play and record.

Robert Knecht Schmidt · March 21st, 2004, 03:14 AM

Now, is the Rode NTK's box a preamp, exactly, or is it just the power supply? It has no volume pot, for example.

Matt Gettemeier · March 21st, 2004, 09:30 AM

Wow. Another blast from the past. Hey guys, I'm sorry I sound like such a dork earlier in this thread. I was pretty excited about the NTK.

I started throwing stuff into this thread within just a couple weeks of Beas and Dave Largent pulling my head out of the sand, regarding DV audio. Hence the raging enthusiasm.

At this point, on March 21, 2004, I'd recommend the nt1000 for rich, deep, trailer-type voices...

The tube mic does help quite a bit with this effect and I still think that's the BEST route, but I got an nt1000 'cause I got tired of dealing with the tube power-supply... sorry if I called it a pre-amp, it's a power-supply.

Anyway, the nt1000 has 85% of the vibrant, bassy quality of the NTK, but without having to deal with the big, dedicated P/S.

I hate to say this, but in the spirit of truth, I found the nt2000 to be very UN-like the NTK or nt1000... I thought the nt2000 was a real disappointment in comparison to the other two mics... The proximity effect was almost non-existant and the vibrant character of the NTK/nt1000 was sanitized out. I was excited about the prospect of having the ultimately detailed sound of a large diaphragm in a variable pattern mic... thinking I could place it at the center of a group and have an "in your face" quality of EVERYONE'S voice, but I couldn't get that. And worse still, even set on cardioid I couldn't get that illusive quality and only ONE speaker either. If you set up the NTK and the nt2000 each at 12" from a person's mouth... when you play it back the nt2000 sounds like the voice was 12" away and the NTK sounds like the voice was nearly ON the mic... Speaking really close to the mic the nt2000 sounds like a voice nearly touching the mic, but the NTK develops a whole new sound with fullness to spare. The nt1000 is lot closer to the NTK then it is to the nt2000. 'Nuff said?

January 5th, 2004, 09:51 PM	#17
John Locke Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Austin, TX USA Posts: 2,882	Okay, everyone... with Matt's approval I've uploaded the sound sample for you. It's his friend, Jay...and he sounds as silky as a DJ (Matt mentions that if anyone wants to hire Jay, just contact Matt by e-mail). Matt, Here's the link to your mic at B&H Photo Video. A bit pricey, but the sound is so rich it's going to be hard not to invest in this. I wonder if there are slightly cheaper models with the same quality output? Worth investigating. __________________ John Locke SursumFilms.com

January 5th, 2004, 11:49 PM	#19
John Locke Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Austin, TX USA Posts: 2,882	Well, now... that's definitely something to keep an eye out for. Great information, Matt! __________________ John Locke SursumFilms.com

January 6th, 2004, 12:16 AM	#21
John Locke Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Austin, TX USA Posts: 2,882	Matt, Portability was one thing I was considering. Also, I was wondering how just getting a preamp and using it with my existing mics would sound. Here's one portable unit I just found and here's another. __________________ John Locke SursumFilms.com

January 6th, 2004, 03:21 AM	#23
Jan Roovers Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Amsterdam NL -Turnhout BE Posts: 158	Mat, As an engineer from TU Delft I look at tubes this way: Tubes are known for there harmonic kind of distortions that sound better for the ear. When the tranistor came up the harmonics introduced that typical transistor sound. But that was in the past. The FET transistor improved that. Chips are basically built on transistortechnology. Nowadays we don't want to hear any distortion, so the difference in harmonic distortion must be lower then what we all can hear. The feedback technology makes it easily possible to reach that and is widely used. (Quad was the first to introduce this technics in their mainamplifiers.) The disadvantage of tubes is that they get warm and get older and change there behaviour. So they have to be refreshed on a regular base. The new tube will never be the same. So tubes sell a dream. Also they shall not give any character ( bassy or live) to an amplifier at all. Myself I will never, never buy any tube amplifier. The idea only that they need to get warm to get on sound gives me headache. As a result I would think the NT1000 or NT 2000 will sound better on the end as the NTK. And the sound of those Rodes are the best I ever heard. __________________ ___________ Jan Roovers www.jtv.be

January 7th, 2004, 06:11 AM	#25
Jan Roovers Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Amsterdam NL -Turnhout BE Posts: 158	Those plugins don't amplify but colour the signal. So those plugins are used as an effect plugin. Amplifying means and must mean that the output is x times the input without any colour or distortion. (not audible) The harmonic distortions of those plugins can be used for special effects for instance 'year 60' effects or in your case simulate different mics. But basically we are talking about soundprocessing. But this effect will be superimposed on the character and defects of the inputmic. That will constrain the result of the final effect. I don't think that it will be possible to simulate any mic of 1000 euro, with a mic of 60 euro. But I think it will be very possible to simulate a mic of euro 60 with a mic of euro 1000. But I don't think that this plugin and a omnidirectional mic possibly can simulate a (hyper-) cardiode or shortgun mic. I have seen that plugin. The idea is fun, but I don't think that the goal must be to simulate a mic, but to get the optimal pleasing sound at the end. Better would be if that plugin was used to normalise the mics behaviour as much as possible for further soundprocessing. I think that would be an interesting idea! __________________ ___________ Jan Roovers www.jtv.be

January 5th, 2004, 09:30 PM	#16
Matt Gettemeier Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 936	John... let me make this CLEAR. This is why I've been posting LIKE A NUT over the last week. Maybe a DVX is just that good, but I doubt it. When I say the audio chain is MIC-DVX-YOUR EARS... I mean JUST that. I have NO special processors or ancillary equipment. What you heard is a BONE stock Rode NTK that comes with it's own little tube amp... (not little)... anyway, you plug in the amp, plug in the mic and start making magic. THAT'S IT. Pretty cool huh? I have TONS of stuff out of this mic that's just simply amazing.

January 5th, 2004, 11:44 PM	#18
Matt Gettemeier Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 936	If you click "add to cart" you'll see that the price is $499... If you keep a REAL close eye on Guitar Center they sometimes have a "2-day" sale... When they say this... IT IS NO LIE... DROP everything and go in! I got that complete mic w/ tube pre and cables for $373. Top that. Hey I gotta' appologize to you guys for laughing on this clip. If this thread maintains interest then I'll get him back over here to do some clean work. The reason I broke into laughter is because I have a couple friends that I showed this mic to, and as I explained how to get the best of the mic they acted like I was nuts. "Oh, I've used a mic before..." If you could see Jay's face as he heard his voice sound like that you'd be laughing too. He looked up like "Buckwheat" from Saturday Night Live... but then he continued to talk like that. If you can imagine that then you see why I couldn't stop laughing.

January 6th, 2004, 12:01 AM	#20
Matt Gettemeier Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 936	John, I gotta' tell ya'... I thought the NT1a sounded great also. It's $199 For another hundred you can get the NT1000. It's $299 If you want a tube mic with tube pre then it's the NTK. $499 As far as the NTK I already mentioned the GREAT deals possible on this mic and really I expect those deals to get MORE common. Why? Rode has an upgrade model from the NTK... now called K2. $599 K2 is STILL a tube mice WITH a tube pre, but it has a fully variable pattern from omni to cardioid to figure eight... and AMAZINGLY enough... ANYTHING INBETWEEN! If you don't want the tubes in the mic or a tube pre then you would go with the NT2000 for $499. NT2000 is IDENTICAL design to the K2 in a NON-TUBE version... all else is the same. I'm a HUGE fan of the tubes for their sound, but honestly I like to be able to take anything and everything with me on some shoots. That tube pre is not something you want to tote around. However the excellent sonic character is sure worth it... As it turns out I sold the NTK for what I paid and I'm going to try the NT2000. If I don't like that better then I'll buy another NTK when the next sale hits. Even at $499 it's a great deal. My shotgun cost $30 more then that and it still needed a crap-load more support gear. That mic is plug and play. Maybe a $49 shockmount if you want, but that's it.

January 6th, 2004, 12:40 AM	#22
Matt Gettemeier Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 936	The NTK and K2 are TUBE mics with TUBE pre-amps... ALL tube... touch the mic after 10 minutes. It's WARM. That is what gives it the lively and bassy character. I'm hoping that if I go with the NT2000 that it will APPROACH that. The main thing you need if you don't get a tube mic is a large 1" diaphragm mic... you can finesse proximity with clarity. I'll bet if you watch "that trailer guy" that he moves in and out of the mic a very slight bit. Push in for bass, pull back as you articulate crisp endings of words and sentences. I'm telling you that if you put on a set of 7506's and spend a couple hours with a mic like this you really get to know your own voice. Before you pop cash on a tube pre, make sure you have a large diaphragm mic.

January 7th, 2004, 05:20 AM	#24
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	there are many tube amp plugins as well as a niftylittle mic plugin called "Antares Microphone Modeller" this app emualtes pretty much any make or model mike from a list of presets. You first input your source mic (or teh closest t it) then u select ur output "mic" source and your sound is adjsuted according to values of that aprticualr mic. Quite good really :)

January 7th, 2004, 07:31 AM	#27
Peter Wiley Major Player Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lewisburg PA Posts: 752	Studio Projects Those on a budget might want to look at the Studio Projects line of mics. for voice over. They are inexpensive and have gotten some very good reviews. On the C1 see: http://mixonline.com/ar/audio_studio_projects/

January 7th, 2004, 10:17 AM	#28
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	I tried the NT1A, the Rode Broadcaster and the NT2000. there is a big difference in the quality between the NT1A and the others at the mid to upper end. The NT1A can sound raspy (to my ears anyway) , the Broadcaster was OK but the NT2000 just blew the other 2 away. I couldn't overload the NT2000 even though I swallowed the mic, that's what gives you the phat sound. The NT2000 is close and i would say much better than the broadcaster. it does a lot more with the switchable patterns and variable low filter I have clips of the NT1A comparing to an ME66. These were done before we (Matt , Dave and myself ) started doing this in a shorter and more precise manner. I'd get a mic and just play and record.

March 21st, 2004, 03:14 AM	#29
Robert Knecht Schmidt Wrangler Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 1,933	Now, is the Rode NTK's box a preamp, exactly, or is it just the power supply? It has no volume pot, for example. __________________ All the best, Robert K S Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| The best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

March 21st, 2004, 09:30 AM	#30
Matt Gettemeier Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 936	Wow. Another blast from the past. Hey guys, I'm sorry I sound like such a dork earlier in this thread. I was pretty excited about the NTK. I started throwing stuff into this thread within just a couple weeks of Beas and Dave Largent pulling my head out of the sand, regarding DV audio. Hence the raging enthusiasm. At this point, on March 21, 2004, I'd recommend the nt1000 for rich, deep, trailer-type voices... The tube mic does help quite a bit with this effect and I still think that's the BEST route, but I got an nt1000 'cause I got tired of dealing with the tube power-supply... sorry if I called it a pre-amp, it's a power-supply. Anyway, the nt1000 has 85% of the vibrant, bassy quality of the NTK, but without having to deal with the big, dedicated P/S. I hate to say this, but in the spirit of truth, I found the nt2000 to be very UN-like the NTK or nt1000... I thought the nt2000 was a real disappointment in comparison to the other two mics... The proximity effect was almost non-existant and the vibrant character of the NTK/nt1000 was sanitized out. I was excited about the prospect of having the ultimately detailed sound of a large diaphragm in a variable pattern mic... thinking I could place it at the center of a group and have an "in your face" quality of EVERYONE'S voice, but I couldn't get that. And worse still, even set on cardioid I couldn't get that illusive quality and only ONE speaker either. If you set up the NTK and the nt2000 each at 12" from a person's mouth... when you play it back the nt2000 sounds like the voice was 12" away and the NTK sounds like the voice was nearly ON the mic... Speaking really close to the mic the nt2000 sounds like a voice nearly touching the mic, but the NTK develops a whole new sound with fullness to spare. The nt1000 is lot closer to the NTK then it is to the nt2000. 'Nuff said?