Best stereo zoom? at DVinfo.net

Frank Granovski · January 4th, 2004, 03:28 AM

Who makes the best stereo zoom mic? What models?

Oleg Kaizerman · January 4th, 2004, 04:53 AM

no one
the stereo zoom mikes is idiotic name that companies wich manifacturing low end rubbish for people that not understand a thing what is ms recording is
the with of the stereo immeg is the difference in potencials between the mid and side adress cupsuls ( m+S and m-s)
as grate that the mid will be the stereo immege will be narrow and it working for wide stereo in opposit way
for best result ,the best way is to record separate tracks of mid and side and deal with the wideness in the post( you dont need ms mixer facillity for that only split y conector with inverting one of the conectors in fase)
that way you will get 3 different signals wich coming to your mixer
the mid ,the inverted mid and the side with plaing between the volium of the side signal you can make stero image as wide you want to
for peole that like to get complitly stereo immage with one mike
there are good stereo gun mikes that have 2 options for wide image ( sanken cs-5,at 835 st)
even if you are recording the complitly stereo image you can convert it to ms and change the wigth again in the post( the same way with the splitter)

Frank Granovski · January 4th, 2004, 04:59 AM

Oleg, thanks. That's what I kind of thought but I wasn't sure. So no one makes a "good" stereo zoom, then?

Oleg Kaizerman · January 4th, 2004, 05:37 AM

no

Frank Granovski · January 4th, 2004, 07:00 PM

At least one stereo zoom mic (make and model) should stand out I would think. Surely you're not implying they are all exactly the same. Since your "no" answer most likely implies you believe there is no one better or good stereo mic on the market---and I'm not entertaining using 2 mics independently nor using a mixer---what would be the best prosumer avenue to get a zoom stereo effect with 1 mic?

Oleg Kaizerman · January 4th, 2004, 07:18 PM

i didnt say there is no good stereo mikes ,i sad there is no such a thing good stereo zoom mike and it is a fact , if you want ,you can invest a few fausends dollars in circuet that will response to your zoom and will change the potensial between the mid and the side of your stereo mike , then talk to me .until then do whatewer you want:-)

Oleg Kaizerman · January 4th, 2004, 07:44 PM

you can invest in good mix pre with ms capability, it starts with few handreds and zooooom your mike by hand but then you will have to shoot with one hand only or make it other way :-)

Frank Granovski · January 4th, 2004, 08:04 PM

I meant stereo zoom mic. I also meant lower-end prosumer, 1 mic and no mixers. I also meant an external shotgun type mic, one that attaches to the cam or tripod. So are there any good stereo mics that are more directional?

Frank Granovski · January 4th, 2004, 08:41 PM

What's a good/"best" shotgun type non-zoom stereo mic which is somewhere in-between cardioid and supercardioid but more so cardioid which ain't gonna break the bank? :-))

Jacques Mersereau · January 5th, 2004, 02:53 PM

Hi Frank,

you're gonna hate this answer . . . for cheap true stereo: the XL1 mic.

Okay, now were in the inexpensive catagory. I've used the
stereo audio tech X/Y Onepoint ($400) and liked it
as well as the crown SASS ($1K).

In the expensive catagory, the Neumann USM69i . . . yeah baby!

Oleg Kaizerman · January 5th, 2004, 03:14 PM

sorry for the late answer but i did work today:-)

dont know cheap solutions
but did worked with at 835st with nice resolts
for football fields and hi urbanic noice shure vp-88 is a wonderfull tool , working well for loud music ( have 3 stages of stereo immeg)
but it quet havy to place on the camera
pear lmikes are wery good for tv works ms -2 cardioid+8 stereo out and ms-10 hiper cardiois -stereo out
sanken cs-9,cs-7,cs-5(shot gun)

if you want spend extra sounfield mikes are heaven

Bogdan Vaglarov · January 5th, 2004, 10:42 PM

I've been wondering the same thing like Frank but just for a short time as I realized the answer given by Oleg - there is no such thing as a good ZOOM stereo mic!

What Frank wants to know is may be very different from how the pros here are approaching the sound field.

So yes Frank, there are pretty good just stereo mics - AT 822, 825, or the shotgun AT835st. For the later 2 you'll need an XLR adapter box to go to the mini plug on your cam.

Talking of zoom mics my Pana GS100 have such and I've used only once the zoom function (family shooting). I tried to see digging deep for any effectiveness but couldn't. I expected that the distant object (my kid shouting) will become more audible but I was wrong. Just the noise got nasty and attenuation of the neighborhood more distinct and unpleasant.

If you get of camera dedicated zoom stereo mic (Pana and I think Canon and Sony are making such) it might be slightly better than the onboard one that I checked but I doubt much better results. In any case you'll get very little in front of your cam and excessive noise from the surrounding.

Any way just like Frank I wanted to hear the oppinion of somebody who bought the Pana VMH1 hot shoe zoom mic but he didn't give us any clue.

Cheers, Bogdan

Glenn Chan · January 10th, 2004, 12:41 PM

The Sony zoom mic sucks from what I hear. Actually what it does is mix in some of your camera's on-board mic as you are "zoomed" out.

No pros use zoom mics so that must tell you something.

Bryan Beasleigh · January 10th, 2004, 02:03 PM

You're better off staying with a mono mic, for dialog especially. If stereo was the way to go we wouldn't all have gone to mono. For music and ambient recording stereo is good, but a a much higher level.

You will get more bang for your buck buying a reasonably good mono mic.

Glenn Chan · January 11th, 2004, 09:11 PM

Some stereo mics are good. The Sony MS908/907 isn't a bad microphone. It's a stereo microphone with a mini-plug / 1/8" connector for $80. It's a good budget mic for ambience, sound FX, and music.

For a camera mic you probably want something more directional than the MS908. At low budgets it looks like a hypercardioid mic would be a better idea than a shotgun. For comsumer cams without XLR connectors I really don't know. An adapter for XLR-miniplug with phantom power seems awfully expensive, ruling out XLR mics.

January 4th, 2004, 03:28 AM	#1
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Best stereo zoom? Who makes the best stereo zoom mic? What models?

January 5th, 2004, 02:53 PM	#10
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	Hi Frank, you're gonna hate this answer . . . for cheap true stereo: the XL1 mic. Okay, now were in the inexpensive catagory. I've used the stereo audio tech X/Y Onepoint ($400) and liked it as well as the crown SASS ($1K). In the expensive catagory, the Neumann USM69i . . . yeah baby! __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager

January 4th, 2004, 04:53 AM	#2
Oleg Kaizerman Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: israel Posts: 296	no one the stereo zoom mikes is idiotic name that companies wich manifacturing low end rubbish for people that not understand a thing what is ms recording is the with of the stereo immeg is the difference in potencials between the mid and side adress cupsuls ( m+S and m-s) as grate that the mid will be the stereo immege will be narrow and it working for wide stereo in opposit way for best result ,the best way is to record separate tracks of mid and side and deal with the wideness in the post( you dont need ms mixer facillity for that only split y conector with inverting one of the conectors in fase) that way you will get 3 different signals wich coming to your mixer the mid ,the inverted mid and the side with plaing between the volium of the side signal you can make stero image as wide you want to for peole that like to get complitly stereo immage with one mike there are good stereo gun mikes that have 2 options for wide image ( sanken cs-5,at 835 st) even if you are recording the complitly stereo image you can convert it to ms and change the wigth again in the post( the same way with the splitter)

January 4th, 2004, 04:59 AM	#3
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Oleg, thanks. That's what I kind of thought but I wasn't sure. So no one makes a "good" stereo zoom, then?

January 4th, 2004, 05:37 AM	#4
Oleg Kaizerman Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: israel Posts: 296	no

January 4th, 2004, 07:00 PM	#5
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	At least one stereo zoom mic (make and model) should stand out I would think. Surely you're not implying they are all exactly the same. Since your "no" answer most likely implies you believe there is no one better or good stereo mic on the market---and I'm not entertaining using 2 mics independently nor using a mixer---what would be the best prosumer avenue to get a zoom stereo effect with 1 mic?

January 4th, 2004, 07:18 PM	#6
Oleg Kaizerman Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: israel Posts: 296	i didnt say there is no good stereo mikes ,i sad there is no such a thing good stereo zoom mike and it is a fact , if you want ,you can invest a few fausends dollars in circuet that will response to your zoom and will change the potensial between the mid and the side of your stereo mike , then talk to me .until then do whatewer you want:-)

January 4th, 2004, 07:44 PM	#7
Oleg Kaizerman Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: israel Posts: 296	you can invest in good mix pre with ms capability, it starts with few handreds and zooooom your mike by hand but then you will have to shoot with one hand only or make it other way :-)

January 4th, 2004, 08:04 PM	#8
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	I meant stereo zoom mic. I also meant lower-end prosumer, 1 mic and no mixers. I also meant an external shotgun type mic, one that attaches to the cam or tripod. So are there any good stereo mics that are more directional?

January 4th, 2004, 08:41 PM	#9
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	What's a good/"best" shotgun type non-zoom stereo mic which is somewhere in-between cardioid and supercardioid but more so cardioid which ain't gonna break the bank? :-))

January 5th, 2004, 03:14 PM	#11
Oleg Kaizerman Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: israel Posts: 296	sorry for the late answer but i did work today:-) dont know cheap solutions but did worked with at 835st with nice resolts for football fields and hi urbanic noice shure vp-88 is a wonderfull tool , working well for loud music ( have 3 stages of stereo immeg) but it quet havy to place on the camera pear lmikes are wery good for tv works ms -2 cardioid+8 stereo out and ms-10 hiper cardiois -stereo out sanken cs-9,cs-7,cs-5(shot gun) if you want spend extra sounfield mikes are heaven

January 5th, 2004, 10:42 PM	#12
Bogdan Vaglarov Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 366	I've been wondering the same thing like Frank but just for a short time as I realized the answer given by Oleg - there is no such thing as a good ZOOM stereo mic! What Frank wants to know is may be very different from how the pros here are approaching the sound field. So yes Frank, there are pretty good just stereo mics - AT 822, 825, or the shotgun AT835st. For the later 2 you'll need an XLR adapter box to go to the mini plug on your cam. Talking of zoom mics my Pana GS100 have such and I've used only once the zoom function (family shooting). I tried to see digging deep for any effectiveness but couldn't. I expected that the distant object (my kid shouting) will become more audible but I was wrong. Just the noise got nasty and attenuation of the neighborhood more distinct and unpleasant. If you get of camera dedicated zoom stereo mic (Pana and I think Canon and Sony are making such) it might be slightly better than the onboard one that I checked but I doubt much better results. In any case you'll get very little in front of your cam and excessive noise from the surrounding. Any way just like Frank I wanted to hear the oppinion of somebody who bought the Pana VMH1 hot shoe zoom mic but he didn't give us any clue. Cheers, Bogdan

January 10th, 2004, 12:41 PM	#13
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	The Sony zoom mic sucks from what I hear. Actually what it does is mix in some of your camera's on-board mic as you are "zoomed" out. No pros use zoom mics so that must tell you something.

January 10th, 2004, 02:03 PM	#14
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	You're better off staying with a mono mic, for dialog especially. If stereo was the way to go we wouldn't all have gone to mono. For music and ambient recording stereo is good, but a a much higher level. You will get more bang for your buck buying a reasonably good mono mic.

January 11th, 2004, 09:11 PM	#15
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	Some stereo mics are good. The Sony MS908/907 isn't a bad microphone. It's a stereo microphone with a mini-plug / 1/8" connector for $80. It's a good budget mic for ambience, sound FX, and music. For a camera mic you probably want something more directional than the MS908. At low budgets it looks like a hypercardioid mic would be a better idea than a shotgun. For comsumer cams without XLR connectors I really don't know. An adapter for XLR-miniplug with phantom power seems awfully expensive, ruling out XLR mics.