NT3 instead of Shotgun for camera and boompole? at DVinfo.net

Arthur John · January 3rd, 2004, 06:47 PM

Would just like some feedback on this idea versus buying an at835b or something similar.

I was thinking that the Rode NT3 Mic might give me better audio although it might be kind of heavy for the Boom operator.

My thought was that it would be better to get the mic along with a couple of lavaliers instead of plunking down $300 for one shotgun mic.

I picked the NT3 as a main mic because I've read some favorable posts about it, and also because it is a hypercardioid which should give it some similar attributes to a shotgun.

Is this a good idea or not? I plan on shooting several projects this year as well as doing a documentary.

Jan Roovers · January 3rd, 2004, 08:14 PM

I agree so much with you.

I have been with a video recording of a know Dutch TV company: IVO Niehe Video Productions" from wich I know the owner and they used expensive Schoeps mics but they told me that thay did use only little cardioide and sometimes hypercardioide but they did not prefer shotguns.
This discussion is recently started on the forum:http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=19191;
Shotguns seem to give a tunnel effect and for what i have heard in examples I don't like the sounding that much.
Therefore I am searching myself for a cardioide or hypercardiod mic which is not a real shotgun and I believe that it is better to bring the microphone towards the source or to use Lavalier mics if that is not possible, only to avoid the necessity of shotguns and their sound.

The last 2 days I found beautifull and very interesting soundexamples of mics.
Those learned me uniformly that the Sennheiser MD 421-II (€ 330,--) excells in most situations and has the advantage of the tunable bass to voice optimalisation, which is very profitable for video. The sound is surprisingly open and clear.

The Rode NT1 is beautifull when very complex modern music has to be recorded. But the mic is more difficult to handle. The NT2 is to be preferred here, but more expensive.
Listen to http://www.rittor-music.co.jp/abc/04.htm The Octava is good but more muddy as the Sennheiser 421 and the Rode NT1.

The Rode NT3 sounds more as the Octava , but is not a bad choice to me. Listen to http://www.rode.com.au/jams.htm

To my very surprise even cheap microphones will satisfy like Behringer XM2000S €29,- or the ECM8000 € 58.- and the Evolution E 835 € 75,--/ E845 €100.- /E865 €200,--/ or the Shure SM58 (€100,--) and the Shure Beta 87 €250,-.

I have copied the German testsite (under) with my own Sennheiser E835 cardioide and to my surprise I found him more compatible with the MD-421 as the E865. May be tomorrow I will upload a sound example of this mic.
The E845 is hyper-cardiode, which is in your favour and it is a good choice I think. Both mics are incredibly cheap and good. But they ar not really on-cam mics.

A new mic is the Behringer B-5 (€118,-- with 2 capsules) which is very well suit for on camera mounting. I have not yet heard it, but i have seen it in a store for musical instruments and it was told that the sound was very good and more towards Neumann as the Octava. That sounds very promising to me:
http://www.behringer.com/02_products...d=B-5&lang=eng

Comparisson demos of mics are found here:
http://www.tastenwelt.de/mikrotest_sounds.html

http://www.phys.tue.nl/people/etimme...cShootout.html

http://www1.keyboards.de/magazine/m0103/301074wp.html

http://www.onlinerock.com/musicians/...cShootout.html

also interesting as a reference:
http://www.fxguidry.com/mictest1/
and
http://testing.holmerup.biz/mic_pretest/

Jan Roovers

Bryan Beasleigh · January 3rd, 2004, 08:36 PM

There are several parallel discusions on that very topic going on here and at dv.com. Matt Gettemeier, myself , Dave Largent and a few others are all on the same track. Look at recent posts on this forum.

Jay Massengill · January 3rd, 2004, 11:31 PM

If you are static booming on an interior, then the NT3 can be an excellent sounding low-cost solution. It is very heavy though for active boom use, I wouldn't want to try and hold it for long. It's also pretty sensitive to wind noise so it would need to be protected inside too for active boom movements. I'd say it has substantially less handling noise than the Oktava that is also popular, but the Oktava is lighter.
Another hypercardioid choice in the same price range is the AT873r. It's not as low noise as the NT3, but substantially smaller and lighter if you have phantom power available. It also has low handling noise and good clarity although you gain that clarity at a loss of a "beefy" sound even close up.

Jan Roovers · January 4th, 2004, 10:52 AM

I promised you a sample of my E835 mic that I bought for voiceover:

Soundsample E835

Compare this with the German samples linked above.

Arthur John · January 4th, 2004, 01:18 PM

Jan, those are some great links! Thanks!

Well, at least this is making me a bit more confident about my choice to diversify my mics rather than lump in with the shotgun crowd.

Looks like I'll have to find a nice furry wind thing for the NT3 though!

Now I just need to decide on whether to get an inexpensive pair of lavaliers such as a Sony ECM-T145 @ around $50 ea or bite the bullet and get a nice set of Shure SM93 @ around $150 ea.

At this point I just imagine using the lavaliers to pick up the actors dialogue and nothing like singing.

Jan Roovers · January 4th, 2004, 05:05 PM

This address has a lot of them in all colours!

http://www.olsenaudio.com/general.html

I am curious to hear your experiences with the Rode NT3!

Matt Gettemeier · January 6th, 2004, 06:11 PM

Jan those are some excellent links.

There sure are a lot of good mics out there.

The one thing I've noticed is that most of you guys are VERY professional sounding and articulate! Many of you are excellent speakers... including you, Jan.

I'm glad this info is circulating well. The 421 sounds better then I thought it would...

Just as an FYI, I did get an NT3 and I guess I could see it in a lot of roles, but it is big and heavy. To use this thing as a boom mic would be a job. It does sound good though... I think it's a little fuller sounding then the Oktavas.

But still, at around 21 ounces... I'm gonna' pop a hyper cap on one of the Oktavas and call that my shotgun.

I think I'm going to call the NT3 my "newsmic"... It is way more susceptable to handling noise then an re50, m58, or d230... but it's warm, full character, and the hyper pattern makes it a worthy addition as a good, utility mic for getting sound that's one click above an omni dynamic... again, that comes at a cost of increased handling noise though.

Jan Roovers · January 7th, 2004, 12:54 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Matt Gettemeier : Jan those are some excellent links.

The one thing I've noticed is that most of you guys are VERY professional sounding and articulate! Many of you are excellent speakers... including you, Jan.

-->>>

When you need a voic-over; you know how you can find me! :-)

I enjoy this whole discussion as much as you do !
Me too, watched every day to the new contributions.
It is very instructive.

I wish more soundsamples will be uploaded somehow.

Matt Gettemeier · January 7th, 2004, 01:54 PM

I'm gonna' be gone for the rest of today and maybe all day tomorrow shooting some crap... so I had to comment on your post before I do Jan.

Jan, are you in the loop of getting emails with sound files? If not then email me and I'll send you everything I'm doing.

Within a week I'll have a couple more significant tests done. I just got the NT3 and actually I like it better today then I did yesterday. It is pretty clear with full bass... solid yet crispy.

I'm also going to great lengths to see the real capability of the Oktava... I got so turned off on shotguns that I'm going to try my best to make the Oktava perform like a short shotgun... (Hyper cap and Rycote isolation)...

AND I have an NT2000 coming since I returned my 4073a... so I'll have a plethora of new crap to listen to.

Getting back to the NT3... It's a lot more "musical" sounding then the other mics in that form factor that I've played with. I just got a bed over the summer with wood slats along the head and foot... if I drag my finger across the slats it doesn't really sound like anything, but if you follow that closely with the NT3 it sounds like a complex creation from a computer music program... it thumps, breaths, and has a slight wood xylephone sound all at once. I've been impressed enough with the NT3 that I'd go back and get a SECOND one today (stereo) if it wasn't for the Oktava's that I just bought for that purpose!

Jan Roovers · January 7th, 2004, 04:48 PM

Matt,

I have send you an email!

I am looking forward for your samples.

Arthur John · January 7th, 2004, 06:05 PM

My order goes in on February 8th, probably with B&H.

I'd like to hear some of the recordings you've been doing with the NT3. I listened to a couple on the Rhode website, but it had other Mics recording the instruments and such as well.

I'm thinking seriously about getting a pair of AT899 lavs, since they cost a little less than the SM93 lavs, but I hear they are used a lot in studio's and I actually found a review on them.

I can't believe how difficult it is to find reviews on lavaliers!

Anyhow, at some point after I get all the sound equipment, I'll make a few sample recordings to put on a website I'll set up at that point with a link here in the forums.

2004 is gonna be a great year, and I'm really looking forward to a number of projects I'm hoping to complete. I think it will be a lot of fun posting my experiences to share with everyone as well.

Bryan Beasleigh · January 7th, 2004, 06:30 PM

The 899 is a great lav. i'm half dead with the flu right now but later i could record a clip. What mics do you own. You really need something to compare it to.

Anthony Lee · January 8th, 2004, 02:21 PM

I'm on a VERY tight budget and was thinking about getting something like the NT3 or an Oktava. I want something I can use instead of a shotgun (using Hyper cap etc). I would use it on a boompole most of the time but would like the option of mounting it on camera.

If I went with Oktava what model would you guys recommend? Can't seem to find an online seller either.

I'm new to the world of mics and soud.

Jean-Philippe Archibald · January 18th, 2004, 06:55 PM

Well,

the NT3 seemed to be promising but it is too heavy. You are talking about the Oktava, which is lighter but you didn't told the model number. By the way, what is the weight of this mic? and what is the pattern, cardioid?

In a previous post, Matt talked about a hyper cap. is this is an add on to change the pattern of the oktava? can this be bought separately?

Thank you all of you sound gurus to awnser my many questions. I am so ignorant concerning the sound!!!

January 3rd, 2004, 06:47 PM	#1
Arthur John Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Farmington, New Mexico Posts: 34	NT3 instead of Shotgun for camera and boompole? Would just like some feedback on this idea versus buying an at835b or something similar. I was thinking that the Rode NT3 Mic might give me better audio although it might be kind of heavy for the Boom operator. My thought was that it would be better to get the mic along with a couple of lavaliers instead of plunking down $300 for one shotgun mic. I picked the NT3 as a main mic because I've read some favorable posts about it, and also because it is a hypercardioid which should give it some similar attributes to a shotgun. Is this a good idea or not? I plan on shooting several projects this year as well as doing a documentary. __________________ Wisdom through experience brings a better understanding of not only what we can do, but also what we believe we can attain.

January 3rd, 2004, 08:14 PM	#2
Jan Roovers Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Amsterdam NL -Turnhout BE Posts: 158	I agree so much with you. I have been with a video recording of a know Dutch TV company: IVO Niehe Video Productions" from wich I know the owner and they used expensive Schoeps mics but they told me that thay did use only little cardioide and sometimes hypercardioide but they did not prefer shotguns. This discussion is recently started on the forum:http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=19191; Shotguns seem to give a tunnel effect and for what i have heard in examples I don't like the sounding that much. Therefore I am searching myself for a cardioide or hypercardiod mic which is not a real shotgun and I believe that it is better to bring the microphone towards the source or to use Lavalier mics if that is not possible, only to avoid the necessity of shotguns and their sound. The last 2 days I found beautifull and very interesting soundexamples of mics. Those learned me uniformly that the Sennheiser MD 421-II (€ 330,--) excells in most situations and has the advantage of the tunable bass to voice optimalisation, which is very profitable for video. The sound is surprisingly open and clear. The Rode NT1 is beautifull when very complex modern music has to be recorded. But the mic is more difficult to handle. The NT2 is to be preferred here, but more expensive. Listen to http://www.rittor-music.co.jp/abc/04.htm The Octava is good but more muddy as the Sennheiser 421 and the Rode NT1. The Rode NT3 sounds more as the Octava , but is not a bad choice to me. Listen to http://www.rode.com.au/jams.htm To my very surprise even cheap microphones will satisfy like Behringer XM2000S €29,- or the ECM8000 € 58.- and the Evolution E 835 € 75,--/ E845 €100.- /E865 €200,--/ or the Shure SM58 (€100,--) and the Shure Beta 87 €250,-. I have copied the German testsite (under) with my own Sennheiser E835 cardioide and to my surprise I found him more compatible with the MD-421 as the E865. May be tomorrow I will upload a sound example of this mic. The E845 is hyper-cardiode, which is in your favour and it is a good choice I think. Both mics are incredibly cheap and good. But they ar not really on-cam mics. A new mic is the Behringer B-5 (€118,-- with 2 capsules) which is very well suit for on camera mounting. I have not yet heard it, but i have seen it in a store for musical instruments and it was told that the sound was very good and more towards Neumann as the Octava. That sounds very promising to me: http://www.behringer.com/02_products...d=B-5&lang=eng Comparisson demos of mics are found here: http://www.tastenwelt.de/mikrotest_sounds.html http://www.phys.tue.nl/people/etimme...cShootout.html http://www1.keyboards.de/magazine/m0103/301074wp.html http://www.onlinerock.com/musicians/...cShootout.html also interesting as a reference: http://www.fxguidry.com/mictest1/ and http://testing.holmerup.biz/mic_pretest/ Jan Roovers __________________ ___________ Jan Roovers www.jtv.be

January 4th, 2004, 10:52 AM	#5
Jan Roovers Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Amsterdam NL -Turnhout BE Posts: 158	Sennheiser E835 sample I promised you a sample of my E835 mic that I bought for voiceover: Soundsample E835 Compare this with the German samples linked above. __________________ ___________ Jan Roovers www.jtv.be

January 4th, 2004, 01:18 PM	#6
Arthur John Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Farmington, New Mexico Posts: 34	Jan, those are some great links! Thanks! Well, at least this is making me a bit more confident about my choice to diversify my mics rather than lump in with the shotgun crowd. Looks like I'll have to find a nice furry wind thing for the NT3 though! Now I just need to decide on whether to get an inexpensive pair of lavaliers such as a Sony ECM-T145 @ around $50 ea or bite the bullet and get a nice set of Shure SM93 @ around $150 ea. At this point I just imagine using the lavaliers to pick up the actors dialogue and nothing like singing. __________________ Wisdom through experience brings a better understanding of not only what we can do, but also what we believe we can attain.

January 4th, 2004, 05:05 PM	#7
Jan Roovers Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Amsterdam NL -Turnhout BE Posts: 158	This address has a lot of them in all colours! http://www.olsenaudio.com/general.html I am curious to hear your experiences with the Rode NT3! __________________ ___________ Jan Roovers www.jtv.be

January 3rd, 2004, 08:36 PM	#3
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	There are several parallel discusions on that very topic going on here and at dv.com. Matt Gettemeier, myself , Dave Largent and a few others are all on the same track. Look at recent posts on this forum.

January 3rd, 2004, 11:31 PM	#4
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	If you are static booming on an interior, then the NT3 can be an excellent sounding low-cost solution. It is very heavy though for active boom use, I wouldn't want to try and hold it for long. It's also pretty sensitive to wind noise so it would need to be protected inside too for active boom movements. I'd say it has substantially less handling noise than the Oktava that is also popular, but the Oktava is lighter. Another hypercardioid choice in the same price range is the AT873r. It's not as low noise as the NT3, but substantially smaller and lighter if you have phantom power available. It also has low handling noise and good clarity although you gain that clarity at a loss of a "beefy" sound even close up.

January 6th, 2004, 06:11 PM	#8
Matt Gettemeier Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 936	Jan those are some excellent links. There sure are a lot of good mics out there. The one thing I've noticed is that most of you guys are VERY professional sounding and articulate! Many of you are excellent speakers... including you, Jan. I'm glad this info is circulating well. The 421 sounds better then I thought it would... Just as an FYI, I did get an NT3 and I guess I could see it in a lot of roles, but it is big and heavy. To use this thing as a boom mic would be a job. It does sound good though... I think it's a little fuller sounding then the Oktavas. But still, at around 21 ounces... I'm gonna' pop a hyper cap on one of the Oktavas and call that my shotgun. I think I'm going to call the NT3 my "newsmic"... It is way more susceptable to handling noise then an re50, m58, or d230... but it's warm, full character, and the hyper pattern makes it a worthy addition as a good, utility mic for getting sound that's one click above an omni dynamic... again, that comes at a cost of increased handling noise though.

January 7th, 2004, 12:54 PM	#9
Jan Roovers Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Amsterdam NL -Turnhout BE Posts: 158	<<<-- Originally posted by Matt Gettemeier : Jan those are some excellent links. The one thing I've noticed is that most of you guys are VERY professional sounding and articulate! Many of you are excellent speakers... including you, Jan. -->>> When you need a voic-over; you know how you can find me! :-) I enjoy this whole discussion as much as you do ! Me too, watched every day to the new contributions. It is very instructive. I wish more soundsamples will be uploaded somehow. __________________ ___________ Jan Roovers www.jtv.be

January 7th, 2004, 01:54 PM	#10
Matt Gettemeier Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 936	I'm gonna' be gone for the rest of today and maybe all day tomorrow shooting some crap... so I had to comment on your post before I do Jan. Jan, are you in the loop of getting emails with sound files? If not then email me and I'll send you everything I'm doing. Within a week I'll have a couple more significant tests done. I just got the NT3 and actually I like it better today then I did yesterday. It is pretty clear with full bass... solid yet crispy. I'm also going to great lengths to see the real capability of the Oktava... I got so turned off on shotguns that I'm going to try my best to make the Oktava perform like a short shotgun... (Hyper cap and Rycote isolation)... AND I have an NT2000 coming since I returned my 4073a... so I'll have a plethora of new crap to listen to. Getting back to the NT3... It's a lot more "musical" sounding then the other mics in that form factor that I've played with. I just got a bed over the summer with wood slats along the head and foot... if I drag my finger across the slats it doesn't really sound like anything, but if you follow that closely with the NT3 it sounds like a complex creation from a computer music program... it thumps, breaths, and has a slight wood xylephone sound all at once. I've been impressed enough with the NT3 that I'd go back and get a SECOND one today (stereo) if it wasn't for the Oktava's that I just bought for that purpose!

January 7th, 2004, 04:48 PM	#11
Jan Roovers Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Amsterdam NL -Turnhout BE Posts: 158	Matt, I have send you an email! I am looking forward for your samples. __________________ ___________ Jan Roovers www.jtv.be

January 7th, 2004, 06:05 PM	#12
Arthur John Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Farmington, New Mexico Posts: 34	My order goes in on February 8th, probably with B&H. I'd like to hear some of the recordings you've been doing with the NT3. I listened to a couple on the Rhode website, but it had other Mics recording the instruments and such as well. I'm thinking seriously about getting a pair of AT899 lavs, since they cost a little less than the SM93 lavs, but I hear they are used a lot in studio's and I actually found a review on them. I can't believe how difficult it is to find reviews on lavaliers! Anyhow, at some point after I get all the sound equipment, I'll make a few sample recordings to put on a website I'll set up at that point with a link here in the forums. 2004 is gonna be a great year, and I'm really looking forward to a number of projects I'm hoping to complete. I think it will be a lot of fun posting my experiences to share with everyone as well. __________________ Wisdom through experience brings a better understanding of not only what we can do, but also what we believe we can attain.

January 7th, 2004, 06:30 PM	#13
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	The 899 is a great lav. i'm half dead with the flu right now but later i could record a clip. What mics do you own. You really need something to compare it to.

January 8th, 2004, 02:21 PM	#14
Anthony Lee New Boot Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kalispell Montana Posts: 22	I'm on a VERY tight budget and was thinking about getting something like the NT3 or an Oktava. I want something I can use instead of a shotgun (using Hyper cap etc). I would use it on a boompole most of the time but would like the option of mounting it on camera. If I went with Oktava what model would you guys recommend? Can't seem to find an online seller either. I'm new to the world of mics and soud.

January 18th, 2004, 06:55 PM	#15
Jean-Philippe Archibald Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Saguenay, Québec, Canada Posts: 1,051	Well, the NT3 seemed to be promising but it is too heavy. You are talking about the Oktava, which is lighter but you didn't told the model number. By the way, what is the weight of this mic? and what is the pattern, cardioid? In a previous post, Matt talked about a hyper cap. is this is an add on to change the pattern of the oktava? can this be bought separately? Thank you all of you sound gurus to awnser my many questions. I am so ignorant concerning the sound!!! __________________ Jean-Philippe Archibald http://www.jparchibald.com - http://www.vimeo.com/jparchib