Neumann Microphones at DVinfo.net

Corey Cook · December 27th, 2003, 03:03 PM

Has anyone had any experience with Neumann (shotgun) mics? I am looking at getting one for my XL1s and am wondering if anyone else has had experiences with them.

Thanks,

C. Cook

Bryan Beasleigh · December 27th, 2003, 06:04 PM

Perhaps we can steer you in the right direction if we knew more about your situation.. I had originally suggested that you do some searches, not to put you off but to allow you to get a better grounding in digital video audio.

Shotgun mics are generally used for outdoor applications and offer higher than usual attenuation of off axis sound. Much has been written about the various mics, but i can't recall reading much about the Neaumann shotguns. They are very pricey and start at 1075 US from B&H.

Your selection of shotgun would also take into account whether or not you had phantom power available to you.

The most basic shotguns all can be run without phantom and include the SGM series from Azden, the AT 8015/8035, and the sennheiser K6/ME66 .
http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/review_shotgun_mics.html

These start at $200 and top out at $380 for the ME66 setup.

Next tier is the AT 4073 which is supposed to be a very fine mic at $530 followed by the AT 4071 at $630. The Sanken CS1 at $780 has been very well received. I've only seen positive reviews of this shotgun. Following the CS1 there is always the Sennheiser 416 at over $1000. Everyone of these mics is a premium shotgun and requires phantom power. You would need an adapter for that.

Running a search on any of these names or models will net you a wealth of info.

Try reading
http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/location_sound.html#link%20two
http://www.equipmentemporium.com/
http://www.cybercollege.org/tvp038.htm
http://www.gefell-mics.com/nav_page.htm
http://www.neumann.com/atoz/welcome.php
http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/icm_eng.nsf
http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/icm_eng.nsf

Martin Garrison · December 27th, 2003, 07:12 PM

Are you sure you need a shotgun?

Corey Cook · December 27th, 2003, 11:00 PM

OK...

Upon looking at that first site, I think I may be having problems about what kind of set up I should be putting together here.

I stated in my earlier post that I own a Canon XL1s, and am planning to be shooting a film with both indoor and outdoor situations, both involving a fair amount of dialogue.

From the info on those sites, I assume that I should be thinking of getting a mixer. Which should I choose? Money isn't a huge influence factor on this, I'd want something that would give me high quality results, but nothing overboard. I'm obviously reletively unexperienced in this feild, so we don't need anything with stuff that I won't be using anytime soon.

"Do you need a shotgun?"

-- Do I? Again, I am unexperienced in the sound aspect of filmmaking. Funny, it's one of the most important; Anyway, I'm learning. As I stated above, inside and outside locations will be done, with dialogue. As I am inexperienced with the sound aspect, I do know from experience that the mic that came with my camera won't be enough for the kinds of things that I am doing.

Beachtek adapters are best? The page that is first in line in Bryan's (generously presented, thanks) page list says that the Canon line of XLR port accessories/shoulder pads aren't as adaquate a source of quality sound as they could be. Now, this could get complicated: I have a matte box with support rails on my camera. From the support rails, I have a mounting attachment thing for my tripod. I see that the Beachtek mounts to the bottom of the camera. Where am I to put it if there is no room there? Do I need an audio mixer if I have a Beachtek?

Alright.. After I have all of these things, what else do I need?

Now, since I don't know what I am talking about, I will allow the chance for imput on specific suggestions on what kind of equipment I need for high quality on location sound. Again, in case you've forgotten what kind of camera I have, it is an XL1s. These suggestions can include everything or anything: mics, mixers, etc.

I hope no one will have to be committed to an asylum after reading this entire thing and having their heads fall off, merely imagining my ameturish lack of sound knowledge.

Thanks (a lot, if there are any replys)

C. Cook

P.S. By "suggestions", I mean this kind of stuff: (specifically these things)

-Shotgun, hyper cardioid or cardioid microphone

-Wired lavalieres
-Two channel mixer
-XLR adaptor (Beachtek or Studio One)
-Mixer harness
-Cables, accessories
-Audio cases and or bags

Thanks again.

Bryan Beasleigh · December 28th, 2003, 02:15 AM

Corey
I asked you to do a search and study the situation. I'm suggesting that you read all of the sites and do some searches AND THEN AND ONLY THEN ask more questions.

We 're just spinning our wheels right now and you have to get comfortable with the situation. Don't worry, we'll all be here to answer questions. I wou;ld suggest you also do some reading at www.dv.com. Do some reading before asking some more questions.

If you're in too much of a hurry you stand to waste more than a few bucks.

"-Shotgun, hyper cardioid or cardioid microphone "
Read and do some more learning

"-Wired lavalieres "

Ditto

"-Two channel mixer "
not a bad idea, look at my post on mini mixers

"-XLR adaptor (Beachtek or Studio One)"
if you have a mixer, you won't need one of these.

"-Mixer harness "

You have money to waste right now, you haven't even used a mixer yet

Relax, stand easy and count your medals ( an old soldier's saying)

Asking more questions without reading and searching is making unecessary work for those that want to help you. It's a lot of work to keep rewriting the same stuff .

Sharon Fraats · December 28th, 2003, 09:06 AM

"Neumann"

I just had to do it..........

Matt Gettemeier · December 28th, 2003, 09:25 AM

"Hello Jerry..."

I say get the at4073a and a K-Tek boom pole... make sure you have a good shock mount such as a Rycote or Lightwave on the end of that pole... then be sure to have a Softie or Lightwave furry on that mic AT ALL TIMES.

There! That should cure you of that pesky extra cash! I know it did for me...

The reason I suggest the at4073a is because I wasn't very satisfied with the me66 and the 4073 is supposed to be one of the best dialog mics out there. Also since it is a very short shotgun it will be excellent for interiors... and since it is a shotgun it should be pretty good for outdoor shots as well... certainly not as good as an mkh416 or even an AT4071 but more then acceptable and with more "reach" then an me66.

So if you don't want to be bothered with all that annoying, "look this up and learn something b/s"... then just pop a grand based on the advice of a total stranger. <- that's called sarcasm...

In my dvx the me66 was simply too hot... so I went with the AT... Your results may vary.

I realize you originally asked about a Neumann, but unless you have all the support gear then you won't get the performance out of that mic that you expect... I assume you were looking at a kmr81i... or the 82i.

Also if you were looking at the 82i then I'd consider the mkh416p or mkh60-70 first. The only reason I don't have one of those mics is 'cause I needed to get the support gear that I've been lacking... i.e. boom pole. You can't walk in with a painter's pole and have a thousand dollar mic on the end of it... c'mon.

Sharon Fraats · December 28th, 2003, 11:08 AM

Thank you Matt for you reply I am not alone.....

As to Neumann Microphones I would like to chime in on one item in this area of doing videos. They are one of the best if not the best if I would have the resources to buy them I would use them on just about every shoot. However and I do mean the big HOWEVER the cost of one good Neumann I would feel uneasy as I have had many of gaffers and grips just slam into my microphones. Not that they do it on purpose it's just that some shoots are in such tight areas.

The best story or I should say the worst story was when another cameraman told my assistant to tap on the mic to see if he could hear if he was connected. Now my assistant was taught well and knew not to do this yet this man told him to do it and he was the DP on the shoot. He didn’t which was good yet the DP went anal after that point.

I love Neumann’s I just wish the others knew the value of them.

Matt Gettemeier · December 28th, 2003, 12:12 PM

That's a good point that I went into in another thread... It's funny how when you are so kind to help somebody make their project how they often don't give a crap about the fact that you spent your own hard-earned cash to buy your gear... I couldn't imagine owning a rental house. People just want to get their stuff done and they don't care what it costs you.

If you really want to go with the Neumann you can get your choice of black or nickle in the 82i for between $700 and $750 USED, but in good condition.

www.coffeysound.com

Go to "consignments".

Mike Rehmus · December 28th, 2003, 04:38 PM

You can post links to non-sponsors as long as it has some purpose and value. Either because you know that the link has something unique to offer or the price is extra-ordinarily good and YOU KNOW the source is reliable.

Our sponsors are more than just people who pay money to Chris, they are reliable companies with which to do business.

Corey Cook · December 28th, 2003, 09:55 PM

I have done research.

Now, a compatibility question.

WILL THIS WORK:

Beachtek DXA-4C Audio Adapter (for XL1s)

+

3-pin XLR Male to 3 pin Female Balanced Cable

+

Neumann KMR821

-- Hopefully, that was not another

'Corey, you should have read more' Questions.

Sharon Fraats · December 28th, 2003, 09:57 PM

If you were going all out with a Neumann I would recommend Star Quad XLR cables.

Corey Cook · December 28th, 2003, 09:59 PM

Thanks for the suggestion.

Would the setup that I mentioned above work?

Thanks,

C. Cook

Sharon Fraats · December 28th, 2003, 11:17 PM

From my view I see no problem with this setup.

Bryan Beasleigh · December 29th, 2003, 02:04 AM

That version of the beach doesn't have phantom, and you do need phantom. Not to be unkind, but you aren't aware of the basics of audio yet you are in a hurry to buy the percieved best there is.

I think that you are way ahead of yourself and should relax and read some more. You seem in a hurry and perhaps i should back off and let you do whatever you want.

Cables like star quad are fine for their superior balance but aren't going to make or break a mic. Either the mic bites you in the butt or it doesn't. If it doesn't don't waste your money playing games.

December 27th, 2003, 03:03 PM	#1
Corey Cook Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 51	Neumann Microphones Has anyone had any experience with Neumann (shotgun) mics? I am looking at getting one for my XL1s and am wondering if anyone else has had experiences with them. Thanks, C. Cook __________________ I Have Spoken.

December 27th, 2003, 11:00 PM	#4
Corey Cook Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 51	OK... Upon looking at that first site, I think I may be having problems about what kind of set up I should be putting together here. I stated in my earlier post that I own a Canon XL1s, and am planning to be shooting a film with both indoor and outdoor situations, both involving a fair amount of dialogue. From the info on those sites, I assume that I should be thinking of getting a mixer. Which should I choose? Money isn't a huge influence factor on this, I'd want something that would give me high quality results, but nothing overboard. I'm obviously reletively unexperienced in this feild, so we don't need anything with stuff that I won't be using anytime soon. "Do you need a shotgun?" -- Do I? Again, I am unexperienced in the sound aspect of filmmaking. Funny, it's one of the most important; Anyway, I'm learning. As I stated above, inside and outside locations will be done, with dialogue. As I am inexperienced with the sound aspect, I do know from experience that the mic that came with my camera won't be enough for the kinds of things that I am doing. Beachtek adapters are best? The page that is first in line in Bryan's (generously presented, thanks) page list says that the Canon line of XLR port accessories/shoulder pads aren't as adaquate a source of quality sound as they could be. Now, this could get complicated: I have a matte box with support rails on my camera. From the support rails, I have a mounting attachment thing for my tripod. I see that the Beachtek mounts to the bottom of the camera. Where am I to put it if there is no room there? Do I need an audio mixer if I have a Beachtek? Alright.. After I have all of these things, what else do I need? Now, since I don't know what I am talking about, I will allow the chance for imput on specific suggestions on what kind of equipment I need for high quality on location sound. Again, in case you've forgotten what kind of camera I have, it is an XL1s. These suggestions can include everything or anything: mics, mixers, etc. I hope no one will have to be committed to an asylum after reading this entire thing and having their heads fall off, merely imagining my ameturish lack of sound knowledge. Thanks (a lot, if there are any replys) C. Cook P.S. By "suggestions", I mean this kind of stuff: (specifically these things) -Shotgun, hyper cardioid or cardioid microphone -Wired lavalieres -Two channel mixer -XLR adaptor (Beachtek or Studio One) -Mixer harness -Cables, accessories -Audio cases and or bags Thanks again. __________________ I Have Spoken.

December 28th, 2003, 04:38 PM	#10
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	You can post links to non-sponsors as long as it has some purpose and value. Either because you know that the link has something unique to offer or the price is extra-ordinarily good and YOU KNOW the source is reliable. Our sponsors are more than just people who pay money to Chris, they are reliable companies with which to do business. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

December 28th, 2003, 09:55 PM	#11
Corey Cook Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 51	"Real" (post-research) Question I have done research. Now, a compatibility question. WILL THIS WORK: Beachtek DXA-4C Audio Adapter (for XL1s) + 3-pin XLR Male to 3 pin Female Balanced Cable + Neumann KMR821 -- Hopefully, that was not another 'Corey, you should have read more' Questions. __________________ I Have Spoken.

December 28th, 2003, 09:59 PM	#13
Corey Cook Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 51	Thanks for the suggestion. Would the setup that I mentioned above work? Thanks, C. Cook __________________ I Have Spoken.

December 27th, 2003, 06:04 PM	#2
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	Perhaps we can steer you in the right direction if we knew more about your situation.. I had originally suggested that you do some searches, not to put you off but to allow you to get a better grounding in digital video audio. Shotgun mics are generally used for outdoor applications and offer higher than usual attenuation of off axis sound. Much has been written about the various mics, but i can't recall reading much about the Neaumann shotguns. They are very pricey and start at 1075 US from B&H. Your selection of shotgun would also take into account whether or not you had phantom power available to you. The most basic shotguns all can be run without phantom and include the SGM series from Azden, the AT 8015/8035, and the sennheiser K6/ME66 . http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/review_shotgun_mics.html These start at $200 and top out at $380 for the ME66 setup. Next tier is the AT 4073 which is supposed to be a very fine mic at $530 followed by the AT 4071 at $630. The Sanken CS1 at $780 has been very well received. I've only seen positive reviews of this shotgun. Following the CS1 there is always the Sennheiser 416 at over $1000. Everyone of these mics is a premium shotgun and requires phantom power. You would need an adapter for that. Running a search on any of these names or models will net you a wealth of info. Try reading http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/location_sound.html#link%20two http://www.equipmentemporium.com/ http://www.cybercollege.org/tvp038.htm http://www.gefell-mics.com/nav_page.htm http://www.neumann.com/atoz/welcome.php http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/icm_eng.nsf http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/icm_eng.nsf

December 27th, 2003, 07:12 PM	#3
Martin Garrison Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 173	Are you sure you need a shotgun?

December 28th, 2003, 02:15 AM	#5
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	Corey I asked you to do a search and study the situation. I'm suggesting that you read all of the sites and do some searches AND THEN AND ONLY THEN ask more questions. We 're just spinning our wheels right now and you have to get comfortable with the situation. Don't worry, we'll all be here to answer questions. I wou;ld suggest you also do some reading at www.dv.com. Do some reading before asking some more questions. If you're in too much of a hurry you stand to waste more than a few bucks. "-Shotgun, hyper cardioid or cardioid microphone " Read and do some more learning "-Wired lavalieres " Ditto "-Two channel mixer " not a bad idea, look at my post on mini mixers "-XLR adaptor (Beachtek or Studio One)" if you have a mixer, you won't need one of these. "-Mixer harness " You have money to waste right now, you haven't even used a mixer yet Relax, stand easy and count your medals ( an old soldier's saying) Asking more questions without reading and searching is making unecessary work for those that want to help you. It's a lot of work to keep rewriting the same stuff .

December 28th, 2003, 09:06 AM	#6
Sharon Fraats Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: chicago, ill Posts: 190	"Neumann" I just had to do it..........

December 28th, 2003, 09:25 AM	#7
Matt Gettemeier Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 936	"Hello Jerry..." I say get the at4073a and a K-Tek boom pole... make sure you have a good shock mount such as a Rycote or Lightwave on the end of that pole... then be sure to have a Softie or Lightwave furry on that mic AT ALL TIMES. There! That should cure you of that pesky extra cash! I know it did for me... The reason I suggest the at4073a is because I wasn't very satisfied with the me66 and the 4073 is supposed to be one of the best dialog mics out there. Also since it is a very short shotgun it will be excellent for interiors... and since it is a shotgun it should be pretty good for outdoor shots as well... certainly not as good as an mkh416 or even an AT4071 but more then acceptable and with more "reach" then an me66. So if you don't want to be bothered with all that annoying, "look this up and learn something b/s"... then just pop a grand based on the advice of a total stranger. <- that's called sarcasm... In my dvx the me66 was simply too hot... so I went with the AT... Your results may vary. I realize you originally asked about a Neumann, but unless you have all the support gear then you won't get the performance out of that mic that you expect... I assume you were looking at a kmr81i... or the 82i. Also if you were looking at the 82i then I'd consider the mkh416p or mkh60-70 first. The only reason I don't have one of those mics is 'cause I needed to get the support gear that I've been lacking... i.e. boom pole. You can't walk in with a painter's pole and have a thousand dollar mic on the end of it... c'mon.

December 28th, 2003, 11:08 AM	#8
Sharon Fraats Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: chicago, ill Posts: 190	Thank you Matt for you reply I am not alone..... As to Neumann Microphones I would like to chime in on one item in this area of doing videos. They are one of the best if not the best if I would have the resources to buy them I would use them on just about every shoot. However and I do mean the big HOWEVER the cost of one good Neumann I would feel uneasy as I have had many of gaffers and grips just slam into my microphones. Not that they do it on purpose it's just that some shoots are in such tight areas. The best story or I should say the worst story was when another cameraman told my assistant to tap on the mic to see if he could hear if he was connected. Now my assistant was taught well and knew not to do this yet this man told him to do it and he was the DP on the shoot. He didn’t which was good yet the DP went anal after that point. I love Neumann’s I just wish the others knew the value of them.

December 28th, 2003, 12:12 PM	#9
Matt Gettemeier Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 936	That's a good point that I went into in another thread... It's funny how when you are so kind to help somebody make their project how they often don't give a crap about the fact that you spent your own hard-earned cash to buy your gear... I couldn't imagine owning a rental house. People just want to get their stuff done and they don't care what it costs you. If you really want to go with the Neumann you can get your choice of black or nickle in the 82i for between $700 and $750 USED, but in good condition. www.coffeysound.com Go to "consignments".

December 28th, 2003, 09:57 PM	#12
Sharon Fraats Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: chicago, ill Posts: 190	If you were going all out with a Neumann I would recommend Star Quad XLR cables.

December 28th, 2003, 11:17 PM	#14
Sharon Fraats Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: chicago, ill Posts: 190	From my view I see no problem with this setup.

December 29th, 2003, 02:04 AM	#15
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	That version of the beach doesn't have phantom, and you do need phantom. Not to be unkind, but you aren't aware of the basics of audio yet you are in a hurry to buy the percieved best there is. I think that you are way ahead of yourself and should relax and read some more. You seem in a hurry and perhaps i should back off and let you do whatever you want. Cables like star quad are fine for their superior balance but aren't going to make or break a mic. Either the mic bites you in the butt or it doesn't. If it doesn't don't waste your money playing games.