Using a Plug on Transmitter with a mixer

Mike Butler · December 17th, 2003, 08:47 PM

Most metallurgists consider aluminum to be a metal. :-) Back in the days of housetop TV antennas (remember them?) they were mostly made of aluminum. Gawd, I must have sold a zillion of those as a teenager working in Radio Shack!

I just tried my new 100 kit, and the signal transmitting range is phenomenal in open air. Both on the plug-on and the lav pack. Haven't tested the limits in closed spaces, different rooms, etc.

Steve is right about checking in with the sound man in a timely fashion. Getting there well before the event starts, chatting up the FOH tech and letting him see you know the diffo between mic & line, what an XLR is, etc. makes all the difference in the world, and if I am at a venue where I can actually access the guy, they have pretty much always been pleasant, especially when I start talking about what's their favorite amp or board or effects unit, etc. (I have been around this stuff pretty much all my life)

As for DJs, most of them don't seem to know Jack S*** about audio, although when I am DJ ing I'll always help the videographer in any way possible, as long as they understand that the feed off the DJ board is not going to be +4 dB...or even balanced for that matter. Then of course I haven't seen that many wedding videographers around my area that know much more than which end of the camera is the front. OOOOH, that ought to start people yelling at me! (Actually it is kind of sad, so many of the ones I see are just photographer's assistants pressed into duty hauling a video camera as kind of sell-on to the picture package) Maybe it's a good opportunity for those of you guys who actually are good to knock these guys out.

Dave Largent · December 17th, 2003, 09:01 PM

I just auditioned the Samson Airline sytem. Got about 90 (+/- 10) feet reception "line of site" before drop-outs.
Same for both lav and plug on.

Matthew de Jongh · December 17th, 2003, 09:24 PM

ok i had thought that the senn 500 definitely had the battery level on the "on camera" unit?

what is the biggest difference between the 100 and the 500?

i was really liking the 500 and the battery status was a big deal, one less thing to worry about.

matthew

Marty Wein · December 18th, 2003, 05:43 AM

4 differences of the 100 vs 500

1) Balanced Output: 100 no | 500 yes
2) Freq. Presets: 100 = 4 | 500 = 16
3) Headphone Output: 100 no | 500 yes
4) Phantom on Plug-on: 100 no | 500 yes

Dave Largent · December 18th, 2003, 11:26 AM

I went to the Senn site. It said max output
is +4 dBu for the unbalanced outputs on both the
100 and 500 receivers, and + 10 bBu for the 500
balanced output. I guess in practical terms that
means less gain has to be dialed in with the balanced
to get the same volume out. Maybe affords a lower
noise floor, then?
One thing I noticed is that the included lav, the ME2,
is listed as having one of the highest sensitivity
levels that I've seen. I happened to check this
figure because I had recently been shopping for lavs.
The ME2 sensitivity is listed at 20 mV/Pa. The
Countryman B6 is 10 mV/Pa, the Sony ECM-88 is
13 mV/Pa, and the Sanken COS-11 is 17 mV/Pa.
Now, Senn offers the systems in three frequency
ranges (A, B, C) and you pick from a chart according to which of the three has the least number of TV
stations in your area. If I were to get two
systems, should I get two different frequency
ranges (for example an "A" range and a "C" range)
or am I okay getting two "C"s and there'll be
plenty of seperation? I just would keep them
some distance apart?

Mike Rehmus · December 18th, 2003, 12:01 PM

Dave, you can run them side-by-side with no interference.

I've been able to pick up a B&G when I was at the head of a valley and they were down around the grape vines so far away that I could just make out a little bit of face detail (nose, eyes) and the Senn was sending loud and clear.

The ME2 is great for picking up the B&G whispers. But you do need to remember to turn on the attenuator when you are doing 'normal' work.

I just finished a sequence of taping actors where the sound was apparently normal all the way but if the actor was voice-powerful (like acting for stage instead of film) the microphone would overload the input ckt. Made the sound a bit fuzzy. Could not hear that outside even with good headphones.

Mike Butler · December 18th, 2003, 02:02 PM

Mike, that's the thing, if you have people with theatre group experience, you have to tell them "remember this for the small screen (TV) and not the stage." This includes not projecting their voice to the back row and also curtailing expansive gestures.

And sometimes it's hard to notice distortion even on a pair of 7506's, don't know why but it's all too apparent on playback back at the shop.

As for distance pickup of the Senn Evo, I sent my daughter walking up the street with the transmitter while I listened on the cans thru my XL1. She was well out of sight when I finally callled her off, and I could still hear the clip-clop of her Steve Maddens on the pavement, and the water rushing throug the storm drains as she walked over them, to say nothing of her voice crystal clear. I think this rig is gonna work out fine for a lot of my projects.

Mike Rehmus · December 18th, 2003, 04:38 PM

Mike, I teach Acting for Television. Too many stage actors cannot make the transition to the small space and the small voice.

As Michael Caine says, "when you are doing nothing, you are just about right for the screen."

Mike Butler · December 18th, 2003, 05:55 PM

Mike,

That's so true, a CU or XCU shot picks up every eyebrow flick and a properly mic'ed shot picks up every breath. Just not the same as trodding the boards.

Speaking of Michael Caine, have you heard they are doing a remake of his '60s hit "Alfie?" With Jude Law in his role. Big shoes to fill.

Mike Rehmus · December 18th, 2003, 06:57 PM

Interesting.

I think the student participants in his BBC video, Acting for Film, are doing parts from Alfie. I never saw the original. Guess I'll have to go find it.

If you haven't seen that BBC training video, try to find it. It's out of print but really worth the effort to track a copy down.

December 17th, 2003, 08:47 PM	#31
Mike Butler Machinist Mate Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Southern Connecticut Posts: 644	Most metallurgists consider aluminum to be a metal. :-) Back in the days of housetop TV antennas (remember them?) they were mostly made of aluminum. Gawd, I must have sold a zillion of those as a teenager working in Radio Shack! I just tried my new 100 kit, and the signal transmitting range is phenomenal in open air. Both on the plug-on and the lav pack. Haven't tested the limits in closed spaces, different rooms, etc. Steve is right about checking in with the sound man in a timely fashion. Getting there well before the event starts, chatting up the FOH tech and letting him see you know the diffo between mic & line, what an XLR is, etc. makes all the difference in the world, and if I am at a venue where I can actually access the guy, they have pretty much always been pleasant, especially when I start talking about what's their favorite amp or board or effects unit, etc. (I have been around this stuff pretty much all my life) As for DJs, most of them don't seem to know Jack S*** about audio, although when I am DJ ing I'll always help the videographer in any way possible, as long as they understand that the feed off the DJ board is not going to be +4 dB...or even balanced for that matter. Then of course I haven't seen that many wedding videographers around my area that know much more than which end of the camera is the front. OOOOH, that ought to start people yelling at me! (Actually it is kind of sad, so many of the ones I see are just photographer's assistants pressed into duty hauling a video camera as kind of sell-on to the picture package) Maybe it's a good opportunity for those of you guys who actually are good to knock these guys out. __________________ I ain't straight outta Compton, I'm straight out the trailer. Cuss like a sailor, drink like a Mc. My only words of wisdom are just, "Radio Edit."

December 18th, 2003, 12:01 PM	#36
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	Dave, you can run them side-by-side with no interference. I've been able to pick up a B&G when I was at the head of a valley and they were down around the grape vines so far away that I could just make out a little bit of face detail (nose, eyes) and the Senn was sending loud and clear. The ME2 is great for picking up the B&G whispers. But you do need to remember to turn on the attenuator when you are doing 'normal' work. I just finished a sequence of taping actors where the sound was apparently normal all the way but if the actor was voice-powerful (like acting for stage instead of film) the microphone would overload the input ckt. Made the sound a bit fuzzy. Could not hear that outside even with good headphones. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

December 18th, 2003, 02:02 PM	#37
Mike Butler Machinist Mate Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Southern Connecticut Posts: 644	Mike, that's the thing, if you have people with theatre group experience, you have to tell them "remember this for the small screen (TV) and not the stage." This includes not projecting their voice to the back row and also curtailing expansive gestures. And sometimes it's hard to notice distortion even on a pair of 7506's, don't know why but it's all too apparent on playback back at the shop. As for distance pickup of the Senn Evo, I sent my daughter walking up the street with the transmitter while I listened on the cans thru my XL1. She was well out of sight when I finally callled her off, and I could still hear the clip-clop of her Steve Maddens on the pavement, and the water rushing throug the storm drains as she walked over them, to say nothing of her voice crystal clear. I think this rig is gonna work out fine for a lot of my projects. __________________ I ain't straight outta Compton, I'm straight out the trailer. Cuss like a sailor, drink like a Mc. My only words of wisdom are just, "Radio Edit."

December 18th, 2003, 04:38 PM	#38
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	Mike, I teach Acting for Television. Too many stage actors cannot make the transition to the small space and the small voice. As Michael Caine says, "when you are doing nothing, you are just about right for the screen." __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

December 18th, 2003, 05:55 PM	#39
Mike Butler Machinist Mate Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Southern Connecticut Posts: 644	Mike, That's so true, a CU or XCU shot picks up every eyebrow flick and a properly mic'ed shot picks up every breath. Just not the same as trodding the boards. Speaking of Michael Caine, have you heard they are doing a remake of his '60s hit "Alfie?" With Jude Law in his role. Big shoes to fill. __________________ I ain't straight outta Compton, I'm straight out the trailer. Cuss like a sailor, drink like a Mc. My only words of wisdom are just, "Radio Edit."

December 17th, 2003, 09:01 PM	#32
Dave Largent Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,483	I just auditioned the Samson Airline sytem. Got about 90 (+/- 10) feet reception "line of site" before drop-outs. Same for both lav and plug on.

December 17th, 2003, 09:24 PM	#33
Matthew de Jongh Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: sounthern maine Posts: 344	ok i had thought that the senn 500 definitely had the battery level on the "on camera" unit? what is the biggest difference between the 100 and the 500? i was really liking the 500 and the battery status was a big deal, one less thing to worry about. matthew

December 18th, 2003, 05:43 AM	#34
Marty Wein Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 229	4 differences of the 100 vs 500 1) Balanced Output: 100 no \| 500 yes 2) Freq. Presets: 100 = 4 \| 500 = 16 3) Headphone Output: 100 no \| 500 yes 4) Phantom on Plug-on: 100 no \| 500 yes

December 18th, 2003, 11:26 AM	#35
Dave Largent Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,483	I went to the Senn site. It said max output is +4 dBu for the unbalanced outputs on both the 100 and 500 receivers, and + 10 bBu for the 500 balanced output. I guess in practical terms that means less gain has to be dialed in with the balanced to get the same volume out. Maybe affords a lower noise floor, then? One thing I noticed is that the included lav, the ME2, is listed as having one of the highest sensitivity levels that I've seen. I happened to check this figure because I had recently been shopping for lavs. The ME2 sensitivity is listed at 20 mV/Pa. The Countryman B6 is 10 mV/Pa, the Sony ECM-88 is 13 mV/Pa, and the Sanken COS-11 is 17 mV/Pa. Now, Senn offers the systems in three frequency ranges (A, B, C) and you pick from a chart according to which of the three has the least number of TV stations in your area. If I were to get two systems, should I get two different frequency ranges (for example an "A" range and a "C" range) or am I okay getting two "C"s and there'll be plenty of seperation? I just would keep them some distance apart?

December 18th, 2003, 06:57 PM	#40
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	Interesting. I think the student participants in his BBC video, Acting for Film, are doing parts from Alfie. I never saw the original. Guess I'll have to go find it. If you haven't seen that BBC training video, try to find it. It's out of print but really worth the effort to track a copy down. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!