Audio Monitors at DVinfo.net

J. Clayton Stansberry · October 7th, 2003, 05:16 PM

I am in the process of getting some studio monitors and haven't found the answer via search.

1. Would it be recommended to plug the ole computer into the home 5.1 surround system, or go for independent studio monitors? I don't think (at this point) I will be doing 5.1 mixing for my projects, so will the home system (yamaha and sony) in stereo mode be sufficient for sound playback and true enough?

2. Or, would it be better to get the studio monitors? If you say studio monitors, could you please list specific models and brands...I have checked out AKG, Tannoy, Mackie, Genelec, and KRK's...just would like to know what specifically is being used.

3. Also, many have said headphones, but "headphones don't produce 'real' enough sound" (true to acoustics of some "specific" environment) is what I have heard and understand...so should I get both?

4. I most likely will not be egg crating my house or editing room, so will the monitors be good in a non-dry enviornment? And, how much will this affect their reproduction?

I think my head is going to explode now and I am sure the answers to these questions will take care of the rest of my body. Thanks in advance...
Clay

Rob Lohman · October 8th, 2003, 01:31 PM

As far as I know it is better to check the audio on studio monitors
instead of headphones. I can imagine that a homecinema setup
might change the sound that it is putting out (it is distributing
it over the speakers and doing calculations for this etc.).

I my feeling says it would just be better to have a couple of
stereo monitors if your not gonna do surround anyway. But
then again, I ain't exactly an audio buff...

Any "pro's" on this?

Tim Brown · October 8th, 2003, 02:27 PM

Im definitely no pro, but from asking that very question and doing some searching, I could possibly shed some light, albeit dim, on the subject.

Audio guru extraordinaire Jay Rose over at dv.com wrote a great article "Somebody isn't listening" in the "Audio Solutions" archive. Great info!

(FYI - You need a free membership to dv.com to access this article)

I have also found Genelec products to be the most recommended, and most expensive. For most of us budget conscious buyers who want the most bang for their buck, the Yamaha MSP3 two way compact woofer comes highly recommended as an inexpensive monitoring solution. About $150 each.

Hope this helps.

J. Clayton Stansberry · October 8th, 2003, 02:34 PM

Tim,

Would you just use one of these MSP3 monitors? Also, is this a woofer, or what is the two-way compact woofer? Thanks in advance...

Clay

Federico Dib · October 8th, 2003, 08:14 PM

Hi, I´ve struggled with the same audio monitor for a few months now..
I can quickly answer question 1 through 3, as I´ve been told on many forums... not just DV stuff but in sound forums.. and by pro audio guys I know...

"If you want good sound get some decent Near Field Monitors. No headphones, no 5.1 home theatrhe stuff.... just plain flat pro Near Field monitors."

The brand? Well that´s a pretty long kind of thread in the audio forums.. go check yourself.. but the bottom line.. is get a good pair.. and learn how they sound... and repond... then start mixing.

QUestion number 4? I can´t answer that since I´m not practicing what I´ve learned.. And I´m still mixing with my headphones... But you´ll get a variety of answers from the purist saying "good architecture is a must" to the more relaxed type.. giving just a few hints on how to place the gear.

One last thing... if your going to some audio forum (and have not been there yet)... be ready for some thread warfare... there´s nothing like peacefull DVinfo...

Rob Lohman · October 9th, 2003, 05:03 AM

About egg-crating your room, yes that would be ideal. But as long
as you don't use a concrete empy room you should be fine mostly.
You can also hang the more heavy tape drapes along the walls
to dampen the sound.

Positioning is very important as well. From what I've seen they
tend to place the speakers at head level (or a bit higher looking
down a bit) and have them turned a bit towards the chair you
sit in at the optimal position.

Mike Rehmus · October 9th, 2003, 05:20 PM

Monitors like Genelec are overkill for most of us. We don't have the enviroment to make the most use of them and few of us have the budget.

KRK, Mackie, Tanoy and others in the same range make good basic units that will really make the sound editing a lot easier.

I feed a set of KRK ROK-R nearfields from a 60 watt Rotel with great results. My edit suite is so crowded that I don't have to worry about reverb and the other issues. Well, I tell myself that anyway.

But to get better, I'd have to create a very nice sound-isolated studio and that isn't going to happen very soon.

Jake McMurray · October 12th, 2003, 08:45 PM

I use yorkville ysmp1 and they are great for the money. I think the optimal positioning is an equilateral triangle between the two speakers and the listening position. I think most people point them in a tad. Try to get the tweeters about ear level, doesn't have to be exact but you don't want the speakers way up high or way up low. Depending on where they are positioned in the room you might need to do some sound dampening etc. Don't worry about that until after you get them and experiment. Every speaker is different really and there is no blanket solution. Try to keep them away from the walls as much as you can to keep from attenuating lower frequencies. Corner placement also tends to attenuate lower frequencies. But you just have to be realistic and work with whatever you can manage.

Aaron Koolen · October 13th, 2003, 01:37 PM

Although I havn't tried them, there are the Studiophile (MAudio) BX5 and BX8 nearfields that seem to have a pretty flat response. Unfortunately what I can tell is that it's only flat down to about 200hz and then falls off quite fast, so if you're mixing bassy music you might need a subwoofer.

Cheers
Aaron

Jake McMurray · October 13th, 2003, 10:51 PM

that would probably true for most bookshelf sized monitors as its hard to get deep bass out of those 6.5 in woofers and smallish enclosures. If you go with the yamaha msp3 there is a deal for a matching sub.

Aaron Koolen · October 14th, 2003, 01:07 AM

Yeah, but I have seen that the Alesis (sp?) 1 MK 2's have a reasonably flat response down to about 50 which seems a lot better. But they are more expensive I think.

Cheers
Aaron

Mike Rehmus · October 15th, 2003, 08:49 PM

Actually, the KRK's go quite low. They are fairly phenominal at how clean they are.

Subwoofers are not recommended for mixing (usually). Certainly not for 2-channel stereo.

Colvin Eccleston · October 28th, 2003, 12:40 AM

Buy Jay Rose's books and read his articles on dv.com.
I chose Tannoy Reveals. They are cheap, uncoloured and do a good job on speech. P.C. speakers are only good for picking editing points not mixing.

Mike Butler · November 7th, 2003, 07:06 PM

I definitely agree with going the two-speaker near-field route for monitoring.

At the office I am using a pair of KEF 8-inch 2-ways at ear level and even with an ancient amp they crank out enough to mix with hard rock or hip-hop soundtracks. The company has some Mackies buried somewhere in a warehouse which were used in a discontinued karaoke promotion (don't ask) and I am trying to get my hands on them for a second edit desk...I'll find them someday.

At home, where I have much more room I am using a very old pair of ADS speakers through a Crown D150A. My wife gets pi$$ed off when I drown out her TV shows while editing. Ironically, my veteran JBL 4311B's (which are actually designed for and meant to be used as monitors) are doing yeoman service as front speakers in my living room home theater...of course it's good to try out your finished video on a system like this.

Martin Garrison · November 8th, 2003, 12:04 AM

Behringer's "truth 2031" monitors are very affordable, and get great reviews. I've never listened to them. A buddy of mine has a pair of the Mackie 824s and they're fantastic, but they're expensive.

Look into treating your room a bit. You would be suprised at how much more you hear in a room with some decent treatment. Dense, rigid fiberglass like corning 703 is cheap and covered in cloth, hung a couple inches from the wall does a great job of absorbing sound.

I got a pile of acoustic foam for free and I'm adding some lower frequency absorption from a company I found on ebay(foambymail). Just what I have up now makes all the difference in the world.

Keep in mind that as sounds bounce back and forth between parrallel walls, not only are some sounds increased, but some are cancelled out.

October 7th, 2003, 05:16 PM	#1
J. Clayton Stansberry Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Colorado Posts: 316	Audio Monitors I am in the process of getting some studio monitors and haven't found the answer via search. 1. Would it be recommended to plug the ole computer into the home 5.1 surround system, or go for independent studio monitors? I don't think (at this point) I will be doing 5.1 mixing for my projects, so will the home system (yamaha and sony) in stereo mode be sufficient for sound playback and true enough? 2. Or, would it be better to get the studio monitors? If you say studio monitors, could you please list specific models and brands...I have checked out AKG, Tannoy, Mackie, Genelec, and KRK's...just would like to know what specifically is being used. 3. Also, many have said headphones, but "headphones don't produce 'real' enough sound" (true to acoustics of some "specific" environment) is what I have heard and understand...so should I get both? 4. I most likely will not be egg crating my house or editing room, so will the monitors be good in a non-dry enviornment? And, how much will this affect their reproduction? I think my head is going to explode now and I am sure the answers to these questions will take care of the rest of my body. Thanks in advance... Clay __________________ I understand everything about nothing.

October 8th, 2003, 01:31 PM	#2
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	As far as I know it is better to check the audio on studio monitors instead of headphones. I can imagine that a homecinema setup might change the sound that it is putting out (it is distributing it over the speakers and doing calculations for this etc.). I my feeling says it would just be better to have a couple of stereo monitors if your not gonna do surround anyway. But then again, I ain't exactly an audio buff... Any "pro's" on this? __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

October 8th, 2003, 02:34 PM	#4
J. Clayton Stansberry Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Colorado Posts: 316	Tim, Would you just use one of these MSP3 monitors? Also, is this a woofer, or what is the two-way compact woofer? Thanks in advance... Clay __________________ I understand everything about nothing.

October 8th, 2003, 08:14 PM	#5
Federico Dib Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Barcelona Posts: 312	Hi, I´ve struggled with the same audio monitor for a few months now.. I can quickly answer question 1 through 3, as I´ve been told on many forums... not just DV stuff but in sound forums.. and by pro audio guys I know... "If you want good sound get some decent Near Field Monitors. No headphones, no 5.1 home theatrhe stuff.... just plain flat pro Near Field monitors." The brand? Well that´s a pretty long kind of thread in the audio forums.. go check yourself.. but the bottom line.. is get a good pair.. and learn how they sound... and repond... then start mixing. QUestion number 4? I can´t answer that since I´m not practicing what I´ve learned.. And I´m still mixing with my headphones... But you´ll get a variety of answers from the purist saying "good architecture is a must" to the more relaxed type.. giving just a few hints on how to place the gear. One last thing... if your going to some audio forum (and have not been there yet)... be ready for some thread warfare... there´s nothing like peacefull DVinfo... __________________ Messenger Boy : The Thessalonian you're fighting, he's the biggest man I've ever seen. I wouldn't want to fight him. Achilles : That is why no one will remember your name.

October 9th, 2003, 05:03 AM	#6
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	About egg-crating your room, yes that would be ideal. But as long as you don't use a concrete empy room you should be fine mostly. You can also hang the more heavy tape drapes along the walls to dampen the sound. Positioning is very important as well. From what I've seen they tend to place the speakers at head level (or a bit higher looking down a bit) and have them turned a bit towards the chair you sit in at the optimal position. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

October 8th, 2003, 02:27 PM	#3
Tim Brown Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Richmond, Virginia Posts: 263	Im definitely no pro, but from asking that very question and doing some searching, I could possibly shed some light, albeit dim, on the subject. Audio guru extraordinaire Jay Rose over at dv.com wrote a great article "Somebody isn't listening" in the "Audio Solutions" archive. Great info! (FYI - You need a free membership to dv.com to access this article) I have also found Genelec products to be the most recommended, and most expensive. For most of us budget conscious buyers who want the most bang for their buck, the Yamaha MSP3 two way compact woofer comes highly recommended as an inexpensive monitoring solution. About $150 each. Hope this helps.

October 9th, 2003, 05:20 PM	#7
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	Monitors like Genelec are overkill for most of us. We don't have the enviroment to make the most use of them and few of us have the budget. KRK, Mackie, Tanoy and others in the same range make good basic units that will really make the sound editing a lot easier. I feed a set of KRK ROK-R nearfields from a 60 watt Rotel with great results. My edit suite is so crowded that I don't have to worry about reverb and the other issues. Well, I tell myself that anyway. But to get better, I'd have to create a very nice sound-isolated studio and that isn't going to happen very soon. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

October 12th, 2003, 08:45 PM	#8
Jake McMurray Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Bellingham Washington Posts: 102	I use yorkville ysmp1 and they are great for the money. I think the optimal positioning is an equilateral triangle between the two speakers and the listening position. I think most people point them in a tad. Try to get the tweeters about ear level, doesn't have to be exact but you don't want the speakers way up high or way up low. Depending on where they are positioned in the room you might need to do some sound dampening etc. Don't worry about that until after you get them and experiment. Every speaker is different really and there is no blanket solution. Try to keep them away from the walls as much as you can to keep from attenuating lower frequencies. Corner placement also tends to attenuate lower frequencies. But you just have to be realistic and work with whatever you can manage.

October 13th, 2003, 01:37 PM	#9
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	Although I havn't tried them, there are the Studiophile (MAudio) BX5 and BX8 nearfields that seem to have a pretty flat response. Unfortunately what I can tell is that it's only flat down to about 200hz and then falls off quite fast, so if you're mixing bassy music you might need a subwoofer. Cheers Aaron __________________ My Website Meat Free Media

October 13th, 2003, 10:51 PM	#10
Jake McMurray Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Bellingham Washington Posts: 102	that would probably true for most bookshelf sized monitors as its hard to get deep bass out of those 6.5 in woofers and smallish enclosures. If you go with the yamaha msp3 there is a deal for a matching sub.

October 14th, 2003, 01:07 AM	#11
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	Yeah, but I have seen that the Alesis (sp?) 1 MK 2's have a reasonably flat response down to about 50 which seems a lot better. But they are more expensive I think. Cheers Aaron __________________ My Website Meat Free Media

October 15th, 2003, 08:49 PM	#12
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	Actually, the KRK's go quite low. They are fairly phenominal at how clean they are. Subwoofers are not recommended for mixing (usually). Certainly not for 2-channel stereo. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

October 28th, 2003, 12:40 AM	#13
Colvin Eccleston Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 93	Buy Jay Rose's books and read his articles on dv.com. I chose Tannoy Reveals. They are cheap, uncoloured and do a good job on speech. P.C. speakers are only good for picking editing points not mixing.

November 7th, 2003, 07:06 PM	#14
Mike Butler Machinist Mate Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Southern Connecticut Posts: 644	I definitely agree with going the two-speaker near-field route for monitoring. At the office I am using a pair of KEF 8-inch 2-ways at ear level and even with an ancient amp they crank out enough to mix with hard rock or hip-hop soundtracks. The company has some Mackies buried somewhere in a warehouse which were used in a discontinued karaoke promotion (don't ask) and I am trying to get my hands on them for a second edit desk...I'll find them someday. At home, where I have much more room I am using a very old pair of ADS speakers through a Crown D150A. My wife gets pi$$ed off when I drown out her TV shows while editing. Ironically, my veteran JBL 4311B's (which are actually designed for and meant to be used as monitors) are doing yeoman service as front speakers in my living room home theater...of course it's good to try out your finished video on a system like this. __________________ I ain't straight outta Compton, I'm straight out the trailer. Cuss like a sailor, drink like a Mc. My only words of wisdom are just, "Radio Edit."

November 8th, 2003, 12:04 AM	#15
Martin Garrison Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 173	Behringer's "truth 2031" monitors are very affordable, and get great reviews. I've never listened to them. A buddy of mine has a pair of the Mackie 824s and they're fantastic, but they're expensive. Look into treating your room a bit. You would be suprised at how much more you hear in a room with some decent treatment. Dense, rigid fiberglass like corning 703 is cheap and covered in cloth, hung a couple inches from the wall does a great job of absorbing sound. I got a pile of acoustic foam for free and I'm adding some lower frequency absorption from a company I found on ebay(foambymail). Just what I have up now makes all the difference in the world. Keep in mind that as sounds bounce back and forth between parrallel walls, not only are some sounds increased, but some are cancelled out.