If you had to choose out of these 3 Lavs

Oliver Darden · February 23rd, 2009, 03:42 PM

No, I am using this WIRELESS

This:
http://svc226.bne095u.server-web.com...SEN_UHF_-2.jpg

Rick Reineke · February 23rd, 2009, 04:01 PM

Substitute "mini TRS" for whatever that models plug is. Could be a Lemo or Hyrose???

Andy Turrett · February 23rd, 2009, 04:09 PM

What I meant about not using a Countryman B6 outdoors is that they are extremely sensitive to any kind of wind and most people who own them don't use them outdoors. The B6 is the smallest mic capsule made and they are very easy to hide. You can stick one through a button hole or a tie knot and because of their tiny size they are difficult for the camera to see. It is a great mic to have in your kit. They sound surprisingly good. But if I had to buy just one Lav it wouldn't be a B6.

Oliver Darden · February 23rd, 2009, 04:17 PM

Ive narrowed it down to the

Tram TR50
Tram | TR50SQ - Omni-Directional Lavalier Condenser | TR50BSET+

or the Voice Technologies VT500.
Voice Technologies | VT500 - Flat Frequency Lavalier | VT0015

I called B&H and they recommend the Voice Technologies VT500 becuase they said it's hardwired together unlike the TR50 which can come apart.

Perrone Ford · February 23rd, 2009, 04:17 PM

Ok, gotcha!

I have a Countryman B3 which is of course quite similar to the B6, just .1mm larger. It sounds terrific to be honest, but I haven't used it outside. I do have the foam windscreen, and if using it outside would either use it under clothing, or with wind protection.

For the money, they do sound amazing.

Bill Pryor · February 23rd, 2009, 04:27 PM

I've used both the Tram and the Countryman and found both pretty equal. I like them because they seem "sharper" than the others, and that's nice when you bury the mic, as you normally do with a lav.

Daniel Epstein · February 23rd, 2009, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver Darden

Ive narrowed it down to the

Tram TR50
Tram | TR50SQ - Omni-Directional Lavalier Condenser | TR50BSET+

or the Voice Technologies VT500.
Voice Technologies | VT500 - Flat Frequency Lavalier | VT0015

I called B&H and they recommend the Voice Technologies VT500 becuase they said it's hardwired together unlike the TR50 which can come apart.

Oliver, I have both Trams and Voice Technologies (the VT 506 model I believe which has a slightly different emphasis than the standard unit which sounds a little more natural when hidden) for my Lectrosonics wireless. I bought the VT's on the recommendation of one of my rental company suppliers as they seem to be a little more durable than my old trams and sound about as good. Also supply was more consistent with the VT company so I have transitioned to them. Tram was basically Ted Rapp and Ted is no longer with us so they only make what he left them. Both VT and Tram are less expensive than Sanken Cos-11 and come with better clips. The Sankens sound better but have poorer wind protection. Good Luck

Andy Turrett · February 23rd, 2009, 05:50 PM

It's true the cos 11 clips are not the best but they are definitely useable. There smallness makes them harder to use in certain situations but the upside is that they are low profile and when I am doing Network News and it is OK to show the mic they look really tidy. I have never been in a situation where I couldn’t use the clip.

The Cos 11 comes with a very small wire mesh windscreen that is very decent in mild wind conditions. But for windier situations I use a low profile foam windscreen made by Lectrosonics which I place on top of the wire mesh windscreen. It looks much better than Tram’s foam windscreen which I think is ugly and it is a smaller profile and offers much better wind protection than the Tram setup. I am not familiar with the VT windscreens so I can’t comment. For really windy situations there isn’t any lav windscreen that works well unless you are talking about a Microcat which is a small furry windscreen made by Remote Audio.

If you are hiding the lav underclothing then using a windscreen is moot. That is why I like the Cos 11 so much. It comes with a rubber mount that you stick the lav into and it really makes hiding and protecting the mic from wind and clothing much easier. Another advantage to the rubber mount is that when you place the mic properly in the mount it gives you a high frequency boost which is very handy when burying under clothing.

Hiding Lavs and protecting them from the wind can be a challenge but I think the Cos 11 for me is the easiest to work with.

Just my 2 cents

Daniel Epstein · February 23rd, 2009, 07:40 PM

Andy,
All of your comments about the Sanken Cos-11 confirm my experience about them as well. What I don't understand is why Sanken doesn't deliver a system of clips which work as well as the Tram or VT in addition to the mic they have designed? I could understand it if the clip somehow represented a significant materials cost to make correctly but it just seems to be a poor understanding of how the lavalier is used in the field. The Sanken is one of the more expensive lavalier designs on the market so to say the alligator clip is not great but usable reflects poorly on the product line more than some other less expensive system. Luckily other people have made better accessories for the Sanken then Sanken. By the way the VT windscreen is a little smaller than the Tram windscreen so its profile is just a little bit better than the Tram. I can understand going with the Trams and VT if I didn't have enough money for the Sanken and I wouldn't worry about using either Tram or VT right out of the box as intended with the supplied accessories. My 2 cents

Oliver Darden · February 23rd, 2009, 08:59 PM

Thanks for your help everyone!

I decided to go with the Voice Technologies VT500. I really liked the way it sounded and it is right in my price range.

O.D.

Andy Turrett · February 23rd, 2009, 09:53 PM

Daniel,

I was not happy with the clip when I first bought the Cos11 and I even wrote an email to Sanken but never got a response. It would be nice if Sanken spent some more design time on their clips. I wouldn’t want the clips to be as big as a tram clip but somewhere in between.

I also use Sanken’s double lav clip when I am wiring Correspondent for live shots. That is a bit of a challenge but I have learned how to make it work.

I do really like the Cos 11 and I bought 4 more cos 11s after my first one despite their poor clip design.

Who are the other people that make Cos 11 Accessories? I’ve seen the vampire tube clip for the Cos 11 and have considered trying it. Do you know of other clips that people use with it?

Oliver Darden · February 24th, 2009, 12:38 AM

This is turning into a clip discussion again! lol

I already did this one! (at that time I was going with the Tram)
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/all-thing...-mic-clip.html

=)

Thanks again guys.

Andy Turrett · February 24th, 2009, 05:40 AM

For me a lav clip is secondary to the sound of the mic and how easily it is to hide under clothing. After 6 years of using the Cos 11 I don't even think about the clip anymore. Once the Cos 11 Lav is in place with it's clip, the small profile actually looks really cool and sleek.

Mark Boyer · March 3rd, 2009, 02:23 PM

I have had some success using a home made fur covering with my lav mics outdoors. Most location sound engineers only boom from overhead using a fur covered blimp in a windy location.

Jimmy Tuffrey · March 5th, 2009, 11:44 AM

Personally after acquiring two Cos 11's I would never use the trams I own again as first choice. The Sankens just sound so much better. To me they sound by far the most like a quality standard size mic than other small lav mic's. The B6 I have not used. Used the B3's though.

February 23rd, 2009, 04:17 PM	#20
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	Ok, gotcha! I have a Countryman B3 which is of course quite similar to the B6, just .1mm larger. It sounds terrific to be honest, but I haven't used it outside. I do have the foam windscreen, and if using it outside would either use it under clothing, or with wind protection. For the money, they do sound amazing. __________________ DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.

March 3rd, 2009, 02:23 PM	#29
Mark Boyer Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Bothell Washington Posts: 174	Outdor use of a Lavalier Microphone I have had some success using a home made fur covering with my lav mics outdoors. Most location sound engineers only boom from overhead using a fur covered blimp in a windy location.

February 23rd, 2009, 03:42 PM	#16
Oliver Darden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: USA Posts: 522	No, I am using this WIRELESS This: http://svc226.bne095u.server-web.com...SEN_UHF_-2.jpg

February 23rd, 2009, 04:01 PM	#17
Rick Reineke Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New York Posts: 2,039	Substitute "mini TRS" for whatever that models plug is. Could be a Lemo or Hyrose???

February 23rd, 2009, 04:09 PM	#18
Andy Turrett Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Northampton,MA Posts: 38	What I meant about not using a Countryman B6 outdoors is that they are extremely sensitive to any kind of wind and most people who own them don't use them outdoors. The B6 is the smallest mic capsule made and they are very easy to hide. You can stick one through a button hole or a tie knot and because of their tiny size they are difficult for the camera to see. It is a great mic to have in your kit. They sound surprisingly good. But if I had to buy just one Lav it wouldn't be a B6.

February 23rd, 2009, 04:27 PM	#21
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	I've used both the Tram and the Countryman and found both pretty equal. I like them because they seem "sharper" than the others, and that's nice when you bury the mic, as you normally do with a lav.

February 23rd, 2009, 05:50 PM	#23
Andy Turrett Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Northampton,MA Posts: 38	It's true the cos 11 clips are not the best but they are definitely useable. There smallness makes them harder to use in certain situations but the upside is that they are low profile and when I am doing Network News and it is OK to show the mic they look really tidy. I have never been in a situation where I couldn’t use the clip. The Cos 11 comes with a very small wire mesh windscreen that is very decent in mild wind conditions. But for windier situations I use a low profile foam windscreen made by Lectrosonics which I place on top of the wire mesh windscreen. It looks much better than Tram’s foam windscreen which I think is ugly and it is a smaller profile and offers much better wind protection than the Tram setup. I am not familiar with the VT windscreens so I can’t comment. For really windy situations there isn’t any lav windscreen that works well unless you are talking about a Microcat which is a small furry windscreen made by Remote Audio. If you are hiding the lav underclothing then using a windscreen is moot. That is why I like the Cos 11 so much. It comes with a rubber mount that you stick the lav into and it really makes hiding and protecting the mic from wind and clothing much easier. Another advantage to the rubber mount is that when you place the mic properly in the mount it gives you a high frequency boost which is very handy when burying under clothing. Hiding Lavs and protecting them from the wind can be a challenge but I think the Cos 11 for me is the easiest to work with. Just my 2 cents

February 23rd, 2009, 07:40 PM	#24
Daniel Epstein Trustee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,267	Andy, All of your comments about the Sanken Cos-11 confirm my experience about them as well. What I don't understand is why Sanken doesn't deliver a system of clips which work as well as the Tram or VT in addition to the mic they have designed? I could understand it if the clip somehow represented a significant materials cost to make correctly but it just seems to be a poor understanding of how the lavalier is used in the field. The Sanken is one of the more expensive lavalier designs on the market so to say the alligator clip is not great but usable reflects poorly on the product line more than some other less expensive system. Luckily other people have made better accessories for the Sanken then Sanken. By the way the VT windscreen is a little smaller than the Tram windscreen so its profile is just a little bit better than the Tram. I can understand going with the Trams and VT if I didn't have enough money for the Sanken and I wouldn't worry about using either Tram or VT right out of the box as intended with the supplied accessories. My 2 cents

February 23rd, 2009, 08:59 PM	#25
Oliver Darden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: USA Posts: 522	Thanks for your help everyone! I decided to go with the Voice Technologies VT500. I really liked the way it sounded and it is right in my price range. O.D.

February 23rd, 2009, 09:53 PM	#26
Andy Turrett Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Northampton,MA Posts: 38	Daniel, I was not happy with the clip when I first bought the Cos11 and I even wrote an email to Sanken but never got a response. It would be nice if Sanken spent some more design time on their clips. I wouldn’t want the clips to be as big as a tram clip but somewhere in between. I also use Sanken’s double lav clip when I am wiring Correspondent for live shots. That is a bit of a challenge but I have learned how to make it work. I do really like the Cos 11 and I bought 4 more cos 11s after my first one despite their poor clip design. Who are the other people that make Cos 11 Accessories? I’ve seen the vampire tube clip for the Cos 11 and have considered trying it. Do you know of other clips that people use with it?

February 24th, 2009, 12:38 AM	#27
Oliver Darden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: USA Posts: 522	This is turning into a clip discussion again! lol I already did this one! (at that time I was going with the Tram) http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/all-thing...-mic-clip.html =) Thanks again guys.

February 24th, 2009, 05:40 AM	#28
Andy Turrett Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Northampton,MA Posts: 38	For me a lav clip is secondary to the sound of the mic and how easily it is to hide under clothing. After 6 years of using the Cos 11 I don't even think about the clip anymore. Once the Cos 11 Lav is in place with it's clip, the small profile actually looks really cool and sleek.

March 5th, 2009, 11:44 AM	#30
Jimmy Tuffrey Major Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bristol U.K. Posts: 244	Personally after acquiring two Cos 11's I would never use the trams I own again as first choice. The Sankens just sound so much better. To me they sound by far the most like a quality standard size mic than other small lav mic's. The B6 I have not used. Used the B3's though.