302 and Beta SP at DVinfo.net

Pietro Jona · January 9th, 2009, 08:21 AM

Hi all

I haven't been working with betacams for a while, and never with my one year old SD302.
With digital cameras i use to set the tone at -20 on camera and run the levels of my mixer to an average of +12, with limiters set at +16 or +18. I never clip and everybody is happy.
Where should I set the tone on a analogic SP Betacam? And up to which level should I run the levels on my mixer?
The shot starts tomorrow..
Thanks

pietro

Daniel Epstein · January 9th, 2009, 10:10 AM

Pietro,
You don't say which Betacam you are using so this is based on BVW-600 camcorder style meters. If I remember correctly set your tone to 0 DB on the betacam with peaks on voice around +4 on the betacam . Listen to see if you are getting any distortion. Your limiters could be Lowered a little to +14 but that is according to taste. If you run the Beta peaks at 0 DB then you will be under recording on the camera which is a little less forgiving than digital underrecording. HTH

Pietro Jona · January 9th, 2009, 10:16 AM

Thanks Daniel but I don't get what you say.
Setting the tone at 0 (0 at mixer=0 at camera) means not going over +4 on the mixer. What does the limiter at +14 do? I would never reach+14..

Daniel Epstein · January 9th, 2009, 10:36 AM

It is okay to peak over +4 on both mixer and camera. Audio is a much more complex signal than the LED dispay so not everything registers the same way. The limiter is in case someone catches you off guard or some signal which goes past what the display is showing you.

Pietro Jona · January 9th, 2009, 10:44 AM

You have an idea at what level a betacam starts distorting?
I ask you this because I just remembered that my mixer has the capability to output a full power, nearly clipping level tone. setting this tone to the level where a betacam starts distorting (mixer's max output to camera's max input) should be fine and I could forget about the numbers I see on my 302.

Rick Reineke · January 9th, 2009, 11:32 AM

You can drive a Betacam pretty hard.. both the linear and AFM tracks . Both are analog in nature so overdriving may just saturate the tape a little.. (Sometimes a desirable artifact in music recording.) Set your 302 ref. level to the VTRs 0 VU and you should be fine. Look in the SD 302 manual on setting to +4 ref.

Pietro Jona · January 9th, 2009, 11:45 AM

Mmh.. and ride the levels/set the limiters up to? The scale on the 302 goes up to +20..

Rick Reineke · January 10th, 2009, 12:22 PM

From the factory, the the 302's tone oscillator is set to output at 0 dBu , when the outputs are set to Line level. With an analog video camera I would suggest you change the tone output level to +4 dBu in the Setup Menu.
I would initially set the limiter to +16 and use the Peak/VU meter mode. Peaks occasionally hitting around +4 to +6. I have not worked with a Betacam in sometime so this is an educated guess.
Note: I don't think I ever worked with two Betacam VTRs where the meter ballistics read the same.

Pietro Jona · January 13th, 2009, 05:07 PM

Thanks Rick I see only now your post, just back from the job.
Everything was fine setting the output to +4dbu, tone at 0 db at camera meters and limiters at +6. Levels on camera hitting 0 most of times, peaking at +4, +6, never distorted and still hot!
thanks again

pietro

January 9th, 2009, 08:21 AM	#1
Pietro Jona Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: italy Posts: 172	302 and Beta SP Hi all I haven't been working with betacams for a while, and never with my one year old SD302. With digital cameras i use to set the tone at -20 on camera and run the levels of my mixer to an average of +12, with limiters set at +16 or +18. I never clip and everybody is happy. Where should I set the tone on a analogic SP Betacam? And up to which level should I run the levels on my mixer? The shot starts tomorrow.. Thanks pietro

January 9th, 2009, 10:10 AM	#2
Daniel Epstein Trustee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,267	Pietro, You don't say which Betacam you are using so this is based on BVW-600 camcorder style meters. If I remember correctly set your tone to 0 DB on the betacam with peaks on voice around +4 on the betacam . Listen to see if you are getting any distortion. Your limiters could be Lowered a little to +14 but that is according to taste. If you run the Beta peaks at 0 DB then you will be under recording on the camera which is a little less forgiving than digital underrecording. HTH

January 9th, 2009, 10:16 AM	#3
Pietro Jona Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: italy Posts: 172	Thanks Daniel but I don't get what you say. Setting the tone at 0 (0 at mixer=0 at camera) means not going over +4 on the mixer. What does the limiter at +14 do? I would never reach+14..

January 9th, 2009, 10:36 AM	#4
Daniel Epstein Trustee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,267	It is okay to peak over +4 on both mixer and camera. Audio is a much more complex signal than the LED dispay so not everything registers the same way. The limiter is in case someone catches you off guard or some signal which goes past what the display is showing you.

January 9th, 2009, 10:44 AM	#5
Pietro Jona Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: italy Posts: 172	You have an idea at what level a betacam starts distorting? I ask you this because I just remembered that my mixer has the capability to output a full power, nearly clipping level tone. setting this tone to the level where a betacam starts distorting (mixer's max output to camera's max input) should be fine and I could forget about the numbers I see on my 302.

January 9th, 2009, 11:32 AM	#6
Rick Reineke Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New York Posts: 2,039	You can drive a Betacam pretty hard.. both the linear and AFM tracks . Both are analog in nature so overdriving may just saturate the tape a little.. (Sometimes a desirable artifact in music recording.) Set your 302 ref. level to the VTRs 0 VU and you should be fine. Look in the SD 302 manual on setting to +4 ref.

January 9th, 2009, 11:45 AM	#7
Pietro Jona Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: italy Posts: 172	Mmh.. and ride the levels/set the limiters up to? The scale on the 302 goes up to +20..

January 10th, 2009, 12:22 PM	#8
Rick Reineke Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New York Posts: 2,039	From the factory, the the 302's tone oscillator is set to output at 0 dBu , when the outputs are set to Line level. With an analog video camera I would suggest you change the tone output level to +4 dBu in the Setup Menu. I would initially set the limiter to +16 and use the Peak/VU meter mode. Peaks occasionally hitting around +4 to +6. I have not worked with a Betacam in sometime so this is an educated guess. Note: I don't think I ever worked with two Betacam VTRs where the meter ballistics read the same.

January 13th, 2009, 05:07 PM	#9
Pietro Jona Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: italy Posts: 172	Thanks Rick I see only now your post, just back from the job. Everything was fine setting the output to +4dbu, tone at 0 db at camera meters and limiters at +6. Levels on camera hitting 0 most of times, peaking at +4, +6, never distorted and still hot! thanks again pietro