Trooping the Colour at DVinfo.net

Nick Flowers · November 15th, 2008, 03:22 AM

Every year there is a ceremonial event in central London called Trooping the Colour where soldiers, both foot and horse, march around a square enclosed by buildings on three sides of about 200 yards accompanied by a large marching band - while the cavalry are accompanied by a mounted band of about 20.

I've always wondered how the OB sound guys get the music so well on the TV coverage, as it seems always to be on mic with no echo. The bands are sometimes on the move and turning through all points of the compass, and yet there is no delay, reverb or echo which considering the distances involved would certainly be the case if multiple mics were mixed together. The music doesn't go off mic when the bands about turn, either.

I suspect that over the years, experience has discovered the 'sweet spot' of the best mic position, pretty high up in one of the surrounding buildings but that's just a guess. As the square is open ground marched upon by troops, there is no way any mics could be concealed there. Anybody got any experience of this, say in football stadiums with marching bands?

Gary Nattrass · November 15th, 2008, 04:59 AM

I think they use the calrec (AMS NEVE) Soundfield mics I know they used to on wimbledon and at the Albert hall.

Or it may be that they just have lots of 416's out and are good at cross mixing and phasing them.

Or is the band miming to a backing track? Sorry thats just a rumour put about by Simon Cowell.

Greg Bellotte · November 15th, 2008, 05:35 AM

Or we dress someone in uniform to march with the band, and outfit them with a wireless microphone. Or several. Or just hang rf's on key band members if the routine is too precise. Lots of tricks...

And yes, I know several mixers that are REALLY good at seamless crossfades. It's an art...

Colin McDonald · November 15th, 2008, 05:45 AM

Quite by chance in an charity shop, I came across a fascinating book, now out of print:
"A World in Your Ear - The broadcasting of an era, 1923-64" Robert Wood [ISBN 0 333 24310 2 MacMillan 1979]. The book has a foreword by Robert Dougall.

This chap was a pioneer radio engineer who came to the newly formed BBC in 1922 and worked on the earliest OBs and rose through the ranks, being eventually the key man behind the Royal Christmas messages (which he apparently did single handed) coaching Kings and incidentally giving speech therapy when required. He worked throughout WW2 with Churchill and was the audio planner and mixer for the funeral of George Vl in 1952 and the Coronation in 1953. He worked on all these events right up to Churchill's funeral (which was planned years in advance, as apparently as all these things are).

Though he had some problems relating to the, as he saw it, vastly over-staffed Television Service, he planned, co-ordinated and mixed the audio feed provided to BBC tv in these early years and developed the techniques for microphone placement for covering these huge outdoor events. There's a fair amount of technical detail in what is essentially an autobiography.

Though undoubtedly technology has moved on a lot since, I get the impression that the techniques he used are still behind what happens today.

Well worth a read if you can get hold of it - this book has been an inspiration to me in having the confidence to tackle seemingly impossible video projects single handed.
(Not that I am saying they have all been successful, mind you!)

Nick Flowers · November 15th, 2008, 07:10 AM

Thanks Colin, that's a wonderful tip. I'll be trying to get that book straight away.

Following on from that, let me recommend the book written by my old guvnor, Peter Handford (Academy Award for 'Out of Africa'). It's 'Sounds of Railways and their recording', published by David & Charles in 1980. ISBN 0 7153 7631 4 It follows his life as a sound mixer in feature films, as a front line war photographer (he was in a landing craft at D Day), and his main love, the recording of the steam railway while it still lived.

Oh, and on the front cover there's a photo of Peter mixing on the remake of The Lady Vanishes, with me in a fit of terminal boredom sitting behind him!

"He is a wicked, wicked bird!" The Lady Killers.

Colin McDonald · November 16th, 2008, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Flowers

Following on from that, let me recommend the book written by my old guvnor, Peter Handford (Academy Award for 'Out of Africa'). It's 'Sounds of Railways and their recording', published by David & Charles in 1980. ISBN 0 7153 7631 4 It follows his life as a sound mixer in feature films, as a front line war photographer (he was in a landing craft at D Day), and his main love, the recording of the steam railway while it still lived.

Thanks Nick - I found an ex-library copy online for £10. (Hope I don't have to pay 20 years worth of fines as well).

November 15th, 2008, 03:22 AM	#1
Nick Flowers Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Chichester UK Posts: 167	Trooping the Colour Every year there is a ceremonial event in central London called Trooping the Colour where soldiers, both foot and horse, march around a square enclosed by buildings on three sides of about 200 yards accompanied by a large marching band - while the cavalry are accompanied by a mounted band of about 20. I've always wondered how the OB sound guys get the music so well on the TV coverage, as it seems always to be on mic with no echo. The bands are sometimes on the move and turning through all points of the compass, and yet there is no delay, reverb or echo which considering the distances involved would certainly be the case if multiple mics were mixed together. The music doesn't go off mic when the bands about turn, either. I suspect that over the years, experience has discovered the 'sweet spot' of the best mic position, pretty high up in one of the surrounding buildings but that's just a guess. As the square is open ground marched upon by troops, there is no way any mics could be concealed there. Anybody got any experience of this, say in football stadiums with marching bands?

November 15th, 2008, 04:59 AM	#2
Gary Nattrass Trustee Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Cornsay Durham UK Posts: 1,992	I think they use the calrec (AMS NEVE) Soundfield mics I know they used to on wimbledon and at the Albert hall. Or it may be that they just have lots of 416's out and are good at cross mixing and phasing them. Or is the band miming to a backing track? Sorry thats just a rumour put about by Simon Cowell. __________________ Over 15 minutes in Broadcast Film and TV production: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1044352/

November 15th, 2008, 07:10 AM	#5
Nick Flowers Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Chichester UK Posts: 167	Thanks Colin, that's a wonderful tip. I'll be trying to get that book straight away. Following on from that, let me recommend the book written by my old guvnor, Peter Handford (Academy Award for 'Out of Africa'). It's 'Sounds of Railways and their recording', published by David & Charles in 1980. ISBN 0 7153 7631 4 It follows his life as a sound mixer in feature films, as a front line war photographer (he was in a landing craft at D Day), and his main love, the recording of the steam railway while it still lived. Oh, and on the front cover there's a photo of Peter mixing on the remake of The Lady Vanishes, with me in a fit of terminal boredom sitting behind him! "He is a wicked, wicked bird!" The Lady Killers. Last edited by Nick Flowers; November 15th, 2008 at 08:47 AM.

November 15th, 2008, 05:35 AM	#3
Greg Bellotte Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: SLC, UT Posts: 291	Or we dress someone in uniform to march with the band, and outfit them with a wireless microphone. Or several. Or just hang rf's on key band members if the routine is too precise. Lots of tricks... And yes, I know several mixers that are REALLY good at seamless crossfades. It's an art...

November 15th, 2008, 05:45 AM	#4
Colin McDonald Trustee Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Glasgow, Scotland Posts: 1,546	Quite by chance in an charity shop, I came across a fascinating book, now out of print: "A World in Your Ear - The broadcasting of an era, 1923-64" Robert Wood [ISBN 0 333 24310 2 MacMillan 1979]. The book has a foreword by Robert Dougall. This chap was a pioneer radio engineer who came to the newly formed BBC in 1922 and worked on the earliest OBs and rose through the ranks, being eventually the key man behind the Royal Christmas messages (which he apparently did single handed) coaching Kings and incidentally giving speech therapy when required. He worked throughout WW2 with Churchill and was the audio planner and mixer for the funeral of George Vl in 1952 and the Coronation in 1953. He worked on all these events right up to Churchill's funeral (which was planned years in advance, as apparently as all these things are). Though he had some problems relating to the, as he saw it, vastly over-staffed Television Service, he planned, co-ordinated and mixed the audio feed provided to BBC tv in these early years and developed the techniques for microphone placement for covering these huge outdoor events. There's a fair amount of technical detail in what is essentially an autobiography. Though undoubtedly technology has moved on a lot since, I get the impression that the techniques he used are still behind what happens today. Well worth a read if you can get hold of it - this book has been an inspiration to me in having the confidence to tackle seemingly impossible video projects single handed. (Not that I am saying they have all been successful, mind you!)