Home Theatre Speakers, info needed.....

[Chris Soucy]

Having finally got my big (hey, ok, it's only 46", but that's BIG in the room where I've currently got it, and that ain't changeing till we move house - soon!) screen set up and working a treat, it's time to pay a bit of attention to the audio.

As I've quite a musical ear, thought I'd start out with a Stereo pair and build on that, been a very long time indeed since I've had a decent sound system (hey, 25 years, but whose counting).

I've been trawling the net but ain't getting any traction whatsoever, so I'm handing it over to the veterans here on DVinfo.

So far, the only system that has popped out as being in the realms of possibility has been a pair of B & W 803D's, later to be added to with a couple of other B & W units for centre, base and surround.

Anyone got any comments one way or the other?

Can anyone post any decent sites to up my info on this subject - I'm so out of touch I'm running blind.

Thanks in advance,


CS

[Larry Price]

I can't comment on your proposed speakers since I've never heard them. I have a complete set (7.1 setup) of Infinity Betas and love them, but unfortunately they're no longer in production. New ones can still be found on the 'net from various vendors, but they're getting increasingly scarce.

As for sites, one I've found very helpful is: AVS Forum

Like any popular forum site, there are lots of shills and fanboys, and enthusiastic people who think they know far more than they actually do. But you'll also find a lot of people with real expertise who are very willing to share what they know and answer questions.

Good luck in your search!

LP

[Steve Oakley]

I've got a set of B&W's in my edit room that I really like. they are a smaller older set with 5" main driver, about 15 years old. while some mAudio BA-5s have a bit more bottom due to their bass port, the B&W's you can listen to all day long without fatigue. mAudio BA-5
s for $300/pair are very good for the price, and I have actually compares them to many other speakers in the same price range in a/b tests.

some of the most impressive speakers I've heard are dynaudio. not cheap, but not crazy expensive either ( all things being relevant ). if I were to redo my 5.1 setup, it would be with a set of them, selfpowered. they also have a set of digital input speakers which you can tune to a room via software that talks to the DSP inside each speaker :)

probably any set of electrostatics will be nice, but the problem with those speakers is that they will reveal everything from compression artifacts to other things you generally won't hear on more conventional speakers.

[Chris Soucy]

Larry: - Thanks for the link. A quick scrute does, indeed, highlight your comments re same.

It's at times like this I really miss living in London, where stuff like this could be sampled at any one of 2 dozen places within easy travelling distance.

I'm still searching, but not entirely sure there's anywhere within an entire days drive of here that would have even a tiny subset of this stuff available for perusal.

Steve: - Usefull advice, as always.

From the above you can pretty well work out that this purchase is gonna have to be practically "sight unseen", let alone "heard".

Speaking of "Hurd", wonder if there's a place on DVinfo for a permanent "Home Theatre" section?

My gut says "No".

When you've got bods arguing over the best $15 tripod/ head combo to park under their $25K Cine Alta camera and the best $25 mic, wireless, mixer etc sound set up ditto, I can see how a "Home Theatre" section would be a bit of a wasteland.

Ho Hum.

Anyway, thanks for your replies.


CS

[John McCully]

Chris

Suggest you check out the Paradigm products. Canadian made based on British research. I recently purchased a set of Paradigm Studio Monitors from The Listening Post in Christchurch and have them in my Motorhome. Right up there with the best.

Cheers…

PS I'm in Naseby if you want to listen!

[Chris Soucy]

Will check them out.

I was with you right up till you said "I'm in Naseby if you want to listen".

Does this imply a CB link going on?

Or the biggest PA system in the Southern hemisphere?

Give me the channel (s) and times and I'll see what I can do.

Where thefu is Naseby?


CS

[Tom Roper]

Originally Posted by Steve Oakley

some of the most impressive speakers I've heard are dynaudio. not cheap, but not crazy expensive either ( all things being relevant ). if I were to redo my 5.1 setup, it would be with a set of them, selfpowered.

My 5.1 setup uses Dynaudio active powered, bi-amped studio monitors and also JBL. Here's the facts on active speakers.


THE GOOD:

- Powerful, low distortion loudspeakers
- flatest in-room frequency response
- compact dimensions

THE BAD:

- Not the cheapest way to go
- Hookup, AC Power + Line-input for each
- To avoid hum, have enough input gain, and run wires over longer distances, the XLR connections should be used.
- Your preamp should have XLR outputs
- Appearance not styled for the home, they are pro speakers

IN GENERAL:

All of the best ones, JBL Pro, Dynaudio, Genelec, Mackie, Adam, KRK and others will sound roughly similar because they are all intended to be flat for studio recording and mixing. They all are powerful, dynamic and accurate. The best ones excel at time-domain frequency response for a focused soundstage, not just the expected low distortion drivers. My personal opinion is that the JBL Pro's were the most neutral, which can sound sterile, because there is no added coloration. The Adams have a much more energetic and lively character that while appealing on first listen, basically isn't correct. Somewhere inbetween are the Dynaudios which I purchased because the JBL's were just a bit too large. I do have the smaller active JBL's for the rear surrounds.

The Dynaudios are loud and punchy. The have some character of their own, which if you like it as I did, that's good but in the honest fundamental sense, it's not correct for pro speakers because the signature sound character is the sound of the speaker itself, not the music, therefore the speaker is adding some coloration of it's own. Almost all audiophile speakers will do that also, but for pro speakers it's a no-no. The Adams use a carbon fiber woofer and ribbon tweeter, for a punchy low end and a bright high end. You can't go wrong with the Mackies. Genelecs are up with the best if you can afford them, KRK's are a good value on a budget. The JBL's include a microphone and in-room equalization, and additionally network over Harman's HiQNet ethernet network with the other products in the family, Crown, Lexicon, dbx and others.

But this arrangement is not for everyone. My 5.1 surround system is 3000 watts of power. I have a lot of fun with it. Wife and dog hate it.

[John McCully]

Wireless broadband connection to the Internet. Very cool. I can keep an eye on DVINFO while crusin down the highway, which I don't do for obvious reasons.

Naseby, you don't know where Naseby is for heavens sake! How long have you been in God's country? An hour and a bit north by northwest from you. Just past Ranfurly, Maniototo district of Otago.

Right now I'm off down to the top pub, the Ancient Britton I think it's called, for a couple of cold ones and fish and chips. Tomorrow visiting with friends, and Monday I'm off to Moeraki, but that could all change...

[Chris Soucy]

3000 watts huh? Wife and dog hate it? Hmm, why am I not suprised.

My missus equates "radio" with noise, thus to be eliminated at all costs.

My biggest hangup with even attempting this is the missus saying "but it's so LOUD!".

(Er, could be the point, possibly, something she'd never, ever take on board).

No mention of B&W in there, Tom. Not considered or just not up to it, too expensive or whatever?


John: -

A brief word with the missus has elicited the following:

"You dork, it's only an hour and a halfs drive from here, you've been there before - don't you remember the etc etc etc etc?"

Mumbled response of: "Oh yeah, that place. Hmm."

(Great relationship, me and my missus - she thinks I'm a complete dolt with an IQ of 187, I think she's a wonder with an IQ of 15 - hey, it works - ish!).

Hmm, bit like trying to hit a moving target with you - you trawling into Dunedin perchance?

I'd try Moeraki (just a bit North of my favourite (not) stomping ground of Shag Point for the seals) but your visit isn't going to be long, and a pretty tiny window.

Let me know when and where is the best time to catch you closest to Dunedin, I'd like to meet, hear and share.


CS

[Ty Ford]

Originally Posted by Chris Soucy

Having finally got my big (hey, ok, it's only 46", but that's BIG in the room where I've currently got it, and that ain't changeing till we move house - soon!) screen set up and working a treat, it's time to pay a bit of attention to the audio.
CS

Chris,

B&W does have a stellar reputation, but $9K/pr USD is very dear. We have an odd shaped room that defies symmetry and is 24 feet long with the TV at one end and our listening about 3/4 the way back. When we went surround in the living room here, I added to the Klipsch bookshelf stereo speakers I helped my wife buy that we were already using in the living room.

Vann's here in the US (Welcome To Vanns.com) has new old stock of the rest of the Klipsch speakers to fill out the system at about half the price they were when they were new. A total stroke of luck for us, really.

I do like the K&H 0110 studio monitors, provided you get the sub. Very big for a small sounding speaker.

I got an Integra DTR 5.8: Integra Home Theater

90 watt/ch RMS. We're using it as a 5.1 , but it can run 7.1.

I'm sure The B&W system will be very impressive and am happy for you if you have the money to spend, I could not be convinced that any speaker or speaker system could sound nine or ten times better than another once you get above a certain dollar figure.

At some point, you cross the line into paying for total bragging rights; being able to tell your friends what you paid for a sound system.

As to the wife's problem with volume, we wondered about that as well, but more speakers doesn't necessarily mean more volume. The problem we have here in the US is that there isn't a soul in master control at the TV stations to ride gain on the audio. Commercials and programming levels swing wildly causing us to dive for the remote. Some movies are mixed with such a huge dynamic range that when the music kicks in or the car explodes, it just about takes your head off because the dialog was so low.

Regards,

Ty Ford

[Tom Roper]

I have not heard B&W active speakers, just the passive ones. The pair I auditioned had a polite sounding English character, great for a delicate tube amp and concert program at lower volumes, they did not have high sensitivity (meaning it takes lots of power to drive them to high volume levels.)

Lots of Audiophile speakers have sounded good to me on music without me ever knowing if they had a flat in-room response. If two different speakers share (3) things, low distortion drivers, time aligned spectral response, and flat in-room frequency response, they are going to sound the same, discounting the obvious difference that's inherent between dipoles versus directional speakers.

So it's easy for me to say, I've enjoyed the sound of Martin Logans, Thiel, B&W, Revel, JM Labs, Sonus Faber even though they all have a unique signature I.D. that essentially is colored, not correct, but I like it!

The pro type, active studio monitors are actually the most uncolored and accurate, and sometimes sterile sounding as a consequence.

My preamp (Integra DTC-9.8) has balanced XLR outputs and Audyssey MultiEQ XT (microphone based in-room equalization).

My choice for most desirable audiophile speaker is the JBL K2 S9800. (I do not own it.)

[Tom Roper]

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

Very big for a small sounding speaker.

I think you mean, "Very small for a big sounding speaker."

[Ty Ford]

Originally Posted by Tom Roper

I think you mean, "Very small for a big sounding speaker."

:) I think I posted that at 4AM during an insomnia episode. :)

What I was going for was, "very big sounding for a small speaker."

Ty

[John McCully]

Dunedin? Not in the immediate future. I need to be back in Christchurch at the end of the month to have the firmware upgraded on the EX1. I’ve now firmed up on a shoot, interview with an ‘old salt’ who lives on the wharf at Moeraki, this coming week so plan to be there for a couple of days or more. If you feel like stretching your legs pop on up the road. You’ll find me parked next to Fleur’s, large white motorhome. You're most welcome to listen to my Paradigm Mini Monitor v5’s and of course meet and share.

When I was putting together this motorhome/studio I upgraded the audio as you are doing now. The two stores I visited in Christchurch and checked out systems were The Listening Post, rooted in the audiophile end of things, and Rockshop and the name says it all. I was unable to directly compare the audiophile product offerings with the Genelecs, KKK’s etc at the Rockshop. I totally agree with Ty regarding the law of diminishing returns. Spend $100 and you get crap. Spend $1000 and you get one hundred times better sound to my ears. Spend $50,000.00, yes, there are audio products costing that much as you probably know, and I would say you have more money than IQ.

You're lucky regarding the IQ thing. I asked my new girlfriend (no longer) what her IQ was and she told me she didn’t have one but next time they are on sale at Countdown she will probably pick one up.

Might see you soon. The plan, almost now cast in bronze, is to head off for Moeraki in the morning.

[Chris Soucy]

Think I'm gonna have to track down some serious audiophile retailers here on the South Island and spend some time and money to get some listening in.

Extremely reluctant to spend even a $k note on sommat I ain't heard.

Haven't "interviewed" speakers since, ooh, er, '74 (1974 that is, not 1874) when I haunted every Hi - Fi store the length of Londons famous Tottenham Court Road, for months.

Must have listened to hundreds of different setups.

Finally walked (actually cabbed, couldn't even carry the beasts) away with a gigantic pair of Sansui's (tho' suspect they were re - badged Tannoys or JBL's) which sounded absolutely superb.

Damn site cheaper than "the real things" tho' still set me back over a couple of months salary from memory.

Followed me round the planet a few times till about a decade ago, when I somehow misplaced them during a move from Oz back to London.

Amazingly, the Rotel receiver, the (can't remember) direct drive turntable with SME arm and Stanton 981EEE cartridge and Nakamichi cassette deck that were all part of the original setup turned up last month at a friends place in Coffs Harbour, NSW, of all places.

Seems I had left them stashed with another friend who had passed them on to this friend who had re - located to Coffs with them in tow.

Imagine my astonishment when my Coffs mate said "Oh, there's some of your stuff in a box over there" (I had gone over to help 'em move) and lo and behold, there they were in all their pristine glory.

The speakers are probably with yet another friend elsewhere in Oz, somewhere.

Guess that after 30 plus years it's about time to re - equip!


Hey, John:

Depending on the weather, I'll zip up to Moeraki tomorrow (Tuesday, 23rd) or Wednesday.

Weather - wise Wednesday looks the better bet, with thick cloud & howling Northwesterlies predicted for tomorrow.

Wednesday they're supposed to be down to "gusting", but clear.

Moeraki and the infamous Shag Point about 15 km south are both promentories sticking out into the ocean, and thus cop Northerlies (usually Noreasters but sometimes West) starting about 9.30 am and building till you can barely stand up (around noon).

They are both sod's of places to get decent sound, tho' Moeraki is possibly slightly more sheltered.

Hopefully see you there. I'll be in the big white Commodore wagon with all my goodies.

CS