Sennheiser MKH-416: Ready to buy

[Toenis Liivamaegi]

NTG-3 for outdoors and Oktava 012 hyper for indoors. And still you save some for Rycote's Invision or Lyre based suspension mounts. The S-System springs to mind. Two job specific mics and a full S-system suspension with windjammer from Rycote for the money of one 416...
... actually the NTG 3 works in small spaces indoors too if there are no room reverb etc.

T

[Brian Maurer]

Can that mic be placed on a boom if necessary and pick up at a decent distance? Looks like the RO and some moving pads are the best overall deal for my project....

[Steve House]

Originally Posted by Brian Maurer

Can that mic be placed on a boom if necessary and pick up at a decent distance? Looks like the RO and some moving pads are the best overall deal for my project....

Absolutely! The Rode (and the Senn) is designed as a boom mic. But define "decent distance" :) Short guns such as the MKH416 or Rode NTG-3 are at their optimum at roughly 2 to 3 feet from the subject. Hypercardioids need to work somewhat closer, usually around 18 to 24 inches for optimum. Using a directional mic closer than its optimum leads to issues with enhanced bass presence from the proximity effect unless it has been designed as a stage vocal or announce mic, in which case the low frequency response will have been contoured to compensate for the closer working distance. Too far away and it starts to get weak and thready with too much ambience (and room slap indoors) starting to intrude.

Thinking of the Goldilocks theory of booming ... "this mic's too close, this mic's too far, this mic's juuuuuuust right!" LOL

[Brian Maurer]

Haha! Well I think I'll be going with the RO for sure, but what I meant by my previous post is this: can you put the Oktava 012 on a boom, and how efficient is that going to be? Really when it comes down to it, it looks like a short gun mic is going to be my best bet in and outdoors, with anything I can do inside to improve sound.

[Jon McGuffin]

I'll just chime in here and say that I have a little experience with Rode products and I think they are built and sound very good. I purchased an NT-3 (not the NTG-3) from DvCreators.net some time ago and don't regret it at all. It sounds to be as though this plus a seperate MIC for your indoor shots affords you the best performance while still coming in under your $1100 budget.

Good luck,

Jon

[Steve House]

Originally Posted by Brian Maurer

Haha! Well I think I'll be going with the RO for sure, but what I meant by my previous post is this: can you put the Oktava 012 on a boom, and how efficient is that going to be? Really when it comes down to it, it looks like a short gun mic is going to be my best bet in and outdoors, with anything I can do inside to improve sound.

Not sure what you mean by "how efficient is that going to be?" Certainly the Oktava can be mounted on a boom and those who have do that all the time.

Visit Ty Ford's website and download his mic basics video clip where he compares a short shotgun and a hyper indoors - you'll see yourself why having both is a good idea. If you're not in a hurry, I'm hoping to record some tests with my NTG-3 this weekend and I'll set up a comparison between it and my Schoeps hyper.

[Brian Maurer]

Steve, I'm in no hurry, and would be happy to hear your sound test. 2 mics, one well performing outdoor, and one well performing indoor, I believe, will be a better deal than one really well performing outdoor, and nothing additional. Let me know when you've got the NTG-3 clip; I'd be very interested in hearing how well it performs first hand. Again, thank you all for the suggestions. So, where might one find this video you speak of?

[Andrew Dean]

A lot of this is kinda like arguing about what happens in the afterlife. You kinda need to go there to experience it before it makes sense.

If you are going to make a film, somebody besides the cameraman needs to be in charge of sound. That person should ideally be an audio snob the way that the cameraman is a video snob and ideally the sound guy gets to choose what he wants for mics.

If you only have $1100 total for all audio gear, then you need to buy the cheaper mics to have money left over for things like mic cables, boom pole and wind protection, which can be hideously expensive.

The main reason to buy a shotgun is for outdoor shooting and if you are outside, wind becomes a major issue. For my first shotgun i bought an at 4073a for $599 and to accompany it i bought a rycote blimp that cost $650. The wind protection cost more than the mic! On the other hand, i have zero wind issues now so... hard to put a price on it.

You'll need at a bare minimum:

1. boom pole (the lighter it is, the longer you'll be able to shoot)
2. shock mount
3. wind protection (Toenis made some good suggestions there)
4. mic cable (canare starquad is a good choice)
5. headphones. Dont cheap out here. Mic placement makes a HUGE difference in audio quality, and the only way to know if your placement is working is to monitor it with headphones. A good choice is sony 7506 for around $100.
6. oh yeah, a mic.

If the story is good, and the audio legible, the video can be crap. I can watch vcds with people walking in front of the camera and still be absorbed in the film. However, if the audio is bad and i'm struggling to hear what is being said? forget it. Since audio is SUCH an important part of video, if you are making a film that you want people to enjoy, you need someone with a passion for audio to be controlling the audio. It is NOT a matter of buying a certain mic and pointing it in the general direction of the actors... any more than camera work is buying a camera based on the sensor type and pointing it at the actors.

No matter what gear you buy, if the cameraman is in charge of sound, its gonna be compromised.

... my 2c.

[Brian Maurer]

Ok Mr. Dean. Assume that I buy the $600 NTG-3. That leaves me with $500 more to spend. Do you have some recommendations for specific boom pole, shock head. I think I can handle the cables :P And those headphones look pretty sweet. Hopefully I'll be able to find someone that knows their stuff here in town, but despite my hometowns avid interest in the arts, rarely are they willing to step up and help, either financially, or via participation.

[Marty Wein]

B&H Offers some complete NTG-3 Kits that may be of interest to you.

[Brian Maurer]

Ok, let's throw another cog into this equation. I want this mic to go from SLR to 1/8th inch. Somewhere in there, it's got to go through something to provide phantom power, yes? How is that done? I apologize for my newness to all of this, but you guys are an excellent source of information. I am very grateful.

[Steve House]

Originally Posted by Brian Maurer

Ok, let's throw another cog into this equation. I want this mic to go from SLR to 1/8th inch. Somewhere in there, it's got to go through something to provide phantom power, yes? How is that done? I apologize for my newness to all of this, but you guys are an excellent source of information. I am very grateful.

You would need an adapter box such as a Beachtek or JuicedLink that provides phantom power or feed the mic through a field mixer such as a Sound Devices MixPre or 302 that provide power. The NTG-2 has an internal battery so it can be self-powered but the NTG-3 does not.

[Wayne Brissette]

Brian:

If you have to bring the audio down to the 3.5mm plug, and you have only phantom powered mics, then you need a mixer or audio recorder, or something similar that allows you to then go out to a line level signal. You can't provide phantom power from a 3.5 mm connector.

Wayne

[Toenis Liivamaegi]

Originally Posted by Brian Maurer

Ok, let's throw another cog into this equation. I want this mic to go from SLR to 1/8th inch. Somewhere in there, it's got to go through something to provide phantom power, yes? How is that done? I apologize for my newness to all of this, but you guys are an excellent source of information. I am very grateful.

Sign Video ENG44 mixer could serve you quite well but it is in the $500 class (and that's actually the cheapest quality mixer.) Denecke phantom supply is quite alright too and cheap.
But all in all I'd get a SD 302 mixer and cheaper mics llike NTG 1 or 2 and the Oktava hyper.
I'm still regretting our company didn't went that route. Now and many more dollars later we still aren't there where we could with the SD302 mixer and the mics I mentioned.

T

[Brian Maurer]

It's been suggested that if I drop below the NTG-3 in terms of noise ratio, I'll regret it later down the line. So I think I need to stick with the NTG-3, and find some way to get the best that I can with the remaining budget I have. Of course, that budget was to also cover some costs for the cables and boom, but I might be able to put together a little more...