24bit Cameras

[Roshdi Alkadri]

Im wondering if 24bit/48khz cameras such as the Red One and maybe Scarlet have the necessary headroom that a 24bit sound recorder does, and if its sufficient enough for feature dialog?

[Wayne Brissette]

Originally Posted by Roshdi Alkadri

Im wondering if 24bit/48khz cameras such as the Red One and maybe Scarlet have the necessary headroom that a 24bit sound recorder does, and if its sufficient enough for feature dialog?

I haven't read a single nice comment yet about the audio on the RED. Every mixer who has worked with them, says the same thing about it. You have to use double-system audio. I haven't worked with one, so all my info is second-hand, but at least two of these sources are people I know personally, and I trust their judgement.

Wayne

[Jeff Kellam]

Originally Posted by Roshdi Alkadri

Im wondering if 24bit/48khz cameras such as the Red One and maybe Scarlet have the necessary headroom that a 24bit sound recorder does, and if its sufficient enough for feature dialog?

How many channels of 24/48 audio do they have?

[Daniel Browning]

Originally Posted by Wayne Brissette

I haven't read a single nice comment yet about the audio on the RED ONE.

Ditto. RED recently announced that all RED ONE cameras will receive audio board upgrades for free, including free shipping.

[Dan Keaton]

Sound Devices tested the audio on the Red One.

Their in-depth analysis is posted on their website.

Basically, they recommend using line-in only, and then only for a scratch track.

[Roshdi Alkadri]

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

Sound Devices tested the audio on the Red One.

Their in-depth analysis is posted on their website.

Basically, they recommend using line-in only, and then only for a scratch track.

with all due respect to Sound Devices (i own a 702T), im wondering if there would have been an test if the Red Cam had kick butt audio features. There's no doubt that preamps on dedicated sound recorders are generally better than most cameras audio features. Im wondering if this field has imporved in regards to camera audio.

[Wayne Brissette]

Originally Posted by Roshdi Alkadri

Im wondering if this field has imporved in regards to camera audio.

That was the initial plan for the RED, it simply hasn't materialized yet. Will it? I'm sure it will, it's the time frame that in my mind remains uncertain.

Wayne

[Roshdi Alkadri]

Red has mentioned that they have learned from experience and will apply the latest technologies into the Epic, Red and Scarlet. One of the major issues was audio, so hopefully they work on noisless 24bit/48khz preamps. Then im hoping to use a mixer and not worry about recording clean audio anymore. I love and know about the benefits of double system but sometimes, whether for budget or time reasons, its not efficient

[Dan Keaton]

I found Sound Devices review of the audio performance of the Red One to be:

1. Informative,
2. Professional,
3. Well Balanced, and
4. Very useful.

Their tests were run after numerous reports of professionals having issues with Red One's audio performance.

Audio Performance of the Red Camera (Red One)|Sound Notes|Sound Devices, LLC

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

As said above by Daniel Browning, RED announced they are completely changing all their audio circuitry free of charge.
All RED owners need to do is send in their cameras.

[Mike Peter Reed]

"so hopefully they work on noisless 24bit/48khz preamps."

and fanless, noiseless picture recording mechanisms ;-)

[Ty Ford]

Red, what a hoot! Talk about "the emperor's new camera."

It's astonishing how much sizzle they get for technology with so many problems.

If Sony or Panasonic put out a camera with as many issues, they'd be crucified, drawn and quartered. It'll be interesting to see how long Red's underdog status will protect them.

Regards,

Ty Ford

[Wayne Brissette]

Originally Posted by Roshdi Alkadri

I love and know about the benefits of double system but sometimes, whether for budget or time reasons, its not efficient

In nearly every case where time was brought into the equation, it wasn't really the time, but the money. People always find the time when a project suffers from something (video or audio) and have to fix it. I always find the "we don't have time to do X" a BS answer. It's really, we don't have the money.

I'm still trying to figure out what it is you're getting at in this thread. You seem to be fond of the RED system, know their take on their audio problems, yet ask questions, which when answered by others, seem to try to discredit.

The current state seems to be that the Red's audio simply needs to be replaced (which RED sounds like they are doing). The current crop of 16-bit video cameras sound awful, but can be masked in post in most situations. Eventually, I do think we'll see real 24-bit audio in cameras that is usable. However, I don't believe this is going to help the audio on most indie productions, because as I've said and as Ty and others too, it's not necessarily the gear, but the person behind the gear that makes a difference and honestly, most indie productions skimp (they have to) on everything they can.

Wayne

[Roshdi Alkadri]

i guess what im getting at is that if we'll ever see 24bit/48khz cameras with some nice preamps. One can just plugin the mixer and make some clean recordings on the camera itself.
I do notice that most audio people shun single system because of its quality issues. And the cameraman doesnt really wanna pay attention to sound. Im wondering if technology will offer better audio rather the usual cheap audio circuits. Im aware of Red's audio problems and that is finally resolved. This is a non issue now as the company has matured and will apply its latest findings into the new cameras, the Red, Epic and Scarlet. Not to mention the image making features being upgraded with the Mysterium X Sensor.

[Steve House]

Originally Posted by Roshdi Alkadri

...I do notice that most audio people shun single system because of its quality issues. And the cameraman doesnt really wanna pay attention to sound. ..

But I'm sure you know, single system doesn't necessarily mean the camera op is the one paying attention to the sound recording. Sound person aligns mixer and camera and then the camera's input controls are taped off so they can't be moved, camera operator warned if he touches them he'll come back with a bloody stump. Camera headphone monitor is sent back to the mixer, sound guy has sole responsiblity for levels etc.