Edirol / RolandR-4 Pro 4

[Marco Leavitt]

Anybody used? How are the preamps?

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

I'm interested in this as well.

Also intrigued if the pre-amps of the PRO are the same in the normal version (not PRO).

PS: Just checked on B&H that there's the Edirol R44. It's flash memory based instead of HDD. Looks nicer!

[Michael Liebergot]

Originally Posted by Pietro Impagliazzo

I'm interested in this as well.

Also intrigued if the pre-amps of the PRO are the same in the normal version (not PRO).

PS: Just checked on B&H that there's the Edirol R44. It's flash memory based instead of HDD. Looks nicer!

The R-44 rocks.
I use it to record wedding audio.
I place the R-44 with 2 Rode M3 mics (one micing PA stack woofer and one micing PA speaker Tweeter). Then I use an AT822 mic facing outwards near the middle of the stack to record ambient audio.

I get a great live mix without the need to go through the board, which I prefer. I always liek to be in total control of my audio when possible.

I then use this audio as my master audio and sync and cut my video accordingly in my NLE.

The pres are very good, never had a clip yet.
Before the R-44< I used to run the R4 and loved it. But I prefer the smaller form factor and removable media (no moving parts) of the R-44 more so.

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

Originally Posted by Michael Liebergot

The R-44 rocks.
I use it to record wedding audio.
I place the R-44 with 2 Rode M3 mics (one micing PA stack woofer and one micing PA speaker Tweeter). Then I use an AT822 mic facing outwards near the middle of the stack to record ambient audio.

I get a great live mix without the need to go through the board, which I prefer. I always liek to be in total control of my audio when possible.

I then use this audio as my master audio and sync and cut my video accordingly in my NLE.

The pres are very good, never had a clip yet.
Before the R-44< I used to run the R4 and loved it. But I prefer the smaller form factor and removable media (no moving parts) of the R-44 more so.

Please tell us more about the R44.

How does the limiter work?
How about preamp gain control? How is it?

Do you usually record at 96khz 24bit and convert to get into the NLE?
Any care should be taken regarding sync when converting 96khz 24bit to 48khz 16bit?

Thanks in advance!

PS: Does Premiere CS3 support 24bit wav files?

[Marco Leavitt]

The R-4 looks like a nice unit, but I wouldn't the 24 bit capability to be useable. Stay at 16 bit if you get it.

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

Originally Posted by Marco Leavitt

The R-4 looks like a nice unit, but I wouldn't the 24 bit capability to be useable. Stay at 16 bit if you get it.

And why is that?

[Marco Leavitt]

Man, this has been covered a lot. The cheap 24 bit recorders don't have clean enough preamps to justify recording at higher than 16 bits. It's a waste of file space.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...ghlight=24+bit

[Michael Liebergot]

Originally Posted by Marco Leavitt

Man, this has been covered a lot. The cheap 24 bit recorders don't have clean enough preamps to justify recording at higher than 16 bits. It's a waste of file space.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...ghlight=24+bit

Well for starters the R-44 isn't cheap unit (like the Zoom H2/H4 recorders, which have horrible pre amps.) and doesn't have cheap pre amps so recording at 24 bit produces good results.

Many over at the Taperssection forum (and these guys are about as nerdy and critical about audio as you get) have been doing analysis of the waveforms and it holds up very nicely.

The R-44 has 2 sets of pots the outer ring controls the gain sensitivity, where you can go from +4 to -56 dBU. The inner knob controls your level input. I really like to be able to set individual gain settings without having to go into a menu. Very intuitive if you ask me, once you get used to the setup.

Without getting too technical, the limiter works wonderfully. As I said I tend to record loud receptions (either live band or DJ) and use a pair of Rode M3 (condenser mics with switchable pads as well). I mic one portion of the PA stack (woofer) with one M3 and the middle of the other (tweeter) with the other M3. Then I use my stereo AT822 mic to go into the remaining 2 channels (the AT822 faces out away from the PA stack to the crowd and records ambient audio. I have yet to get any clipping what so ever, and get a very well rounded live audio mix.

I will also conclude in saying that this unit is small, did I just say it was small, because it is small and extremely lightweight. I was able to attach it to a tripod using a clamping music sheet holder. The mount my mics accordingly on the same mic stand (one on top, one on the mic shaft attached by Windtech clamp), and the other also on the mic stand shaft (via Windtech clamp). So I can pickup and move it anywhere I need.

Once I find the right case for it, I will simply attach it on the base of the mic stand to add a bit of extra weight to the base of my rig. I'm all about mobility and portability with no running of cables if needed.

Another nice thing about the R-44 is that you can record to 2 channels and still use the onboard mics if needed. The onboard mics are ok, I would rather use my M3's or Rode NT5s for fuller audio.

Now if you record 24/96 you will get better sound with the R-44. But honestly if you are mixing this audio with video then 16/48 is the way to go if you ask me. As all you are really doing is wasting card space as your final audio will be mixed down to 16/48 for DVD.

If you do decide to stay 24/96 you will have no sync problems what so ever. As the onboard crystal in the Edirol products are not the cheap ones form China (like the Zooms), so it should hold sync excellent.

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

Originally Posted by Michael Liebergot

Well for starters the R-44 isn't cheap unit (like the Zoom H2/H4 recorders, which have horrible pre amps.) and doesn't have cheap pre amps so recording at 24 bit produces good results.

Many over at the Taperssection forum (and these guys are about as nerdy and critical about audio as you get) have been doing analysis of the waveforms and it holds up very nicely.

The R-44 has 2 sets of pots the outer ring controls the gain sensitivity, where you can go from +4 to -56 dBU. The inner knob controls your level input. I really like to be able to set individual gain settings without having to go into a menu. Very intuitive if you ask me, once you get used to the setup.

Without getting too technical, the limiter works wonderfully. As I said I tend to record loud receptions (either live band or DJ) and use a pair of Rode M3 (condenser mics with switchable pads as well). I mic one portion of the PA stack (woofer) with one M3 and the middle of the other (tweeter) with the other M3. Then I use my stereo AT822 mic to go into the remaining 2 channels (the AT822 faces out away from the PA stack to the crowd and records ambient audio. I have yet to get any clipping what so ever, and get a very well rounded live audio mix.

I will also conclude in saying that this unit is small, did I just say it was small, because it is small and extremely lightweight. I was able to attach it to a tripod using a clamping music sheet holder. The mount my mics accordingly on the same mic stand (one on top, one on the mic shaft attached by Windtech clamp), and the other also on the mic stand shaft (via Windtech clamp). So I can pickup and move it anywhere I need.

Once I find the right case for it, I will simply attach it on the base of the mic stand to add a bit of extra weight to the base of my rig. I'm all about mobility and portability with no running of cables if needed.

Another nice thing about the R-44 is that you can record to 2 channels and still use the onboard mics if needed. The onboard mics are ok, I would rather use my M3's or Rode NT5s for fuller audio.

Now if you record 24/96 you will get better sound with the R-44. But honestly if you are mixing this audio with video then 16/48 is the way to go if you ask me. As all you are really doing is wasting card space as your final audio will be mixed down to 16/48 for DVD.

If you do decide to stay 24/96 you will have no sync problems what so ever. As the onboard crystal in the Edirol products are not the cheap ones form China (like the Zooms), so it should hold sync excellent.

That was a very helpful review.
I'm tired of in-cam recording, not good enough.

I ask the 24/96 question because of what people say: recording higher bitrate/sampling will make your audio hold up better through post/compression/etc processes.

Thanks a lot.

[Michael Liebergot]

Originally Posted by Pietro Impagliazzo

That was a very helpful review.
I'm tired of in-cam recording, not good enough.

I ask the 24/96 question because of what people say: recording higher bitrate/sampling will make your audio hold up better through post/compression/etc processes.

Thanks a lot.

While this is true, I don't think that it is needed for regular event recording, maybe if you are producing a concert video. Also, your uncompressed WAV of AIF audio from the R-44 will be much improved over the compressed HDV audio that your camera will produce.

I only record audio to my camera anymore for sync/monitor/backup audio purposes. And use my recorder audio for 98% of my work if possible. The thing that I'm trying to iron out right now is micing a wedding ceremony, where I'm currently trying to send a wireless feed from the groom, wireless feed of musicians, wired mic on podium for readings to the R-44. the send 1-2 wireless feeds (via the RCA line out) to my camera for sync/monitor.backup audio mix. I would also like to have the R-44 right next to me if possible to adjust if needed while I'm shooting, but I don't have the amount of wireless units to pull this off.

Works good, but I don't like using that many wireless feeds, as it can be a pain at times and not as clean as a straight hard line feed.

But it isn't right (or time manageable) to run cables for a wedding ceremony. And most don't know anything about the 80 year old church sound board to help you out if needed.

[Terwingen Niels]

hi,

how do you put a canon xh A1 in sync with this edirol recorder? there is no timecode option here i think??

[Steve Oakley]

record 24bit 48k. the extra bit depth will provide cleaner mixing in post,and some saftey recording for the extra headroom.

[Meryem Ersoz]

Just a note - Doug Oade (www.oade.com) offers a mod of the edirol products R-4 and R-44 where they replace the preamps with higher quality circuitry. I bought an R-4 Pro from Oade Brothers, but since I don't have an original R-4 Pro to compare it to, I don't really know how it measures up to the original.

I have only used it a few times so far and have not begun to maximize its feature set, I'm sure, so I can't offer up a comprehensive review or recommendation.

I have a ratty little MiniDisk player that was recommended to me by an NPR reporter, and I've never found any unit that can match its tones for clarity. Too bad it is not very feature-rich or flexible because it sounds amazing. Better than the modded R-4 Pro but a PITA to use and not useful in all circumstances or applications.

[Marco Leavitt]

Well, here's Jay Rose's review at DV Mag:

"Bottom line: Edirol R-4 does a good job with 16-bit voice or music recordings, from virtually any line-level source, and we can recommend it for that purpose. Unfortunately, things are worse with mic-level signals. And at 24 bits, it just wastes media."

[Chris Sweet]

bought one last year (r4pro) was happy with the preamps comparing it next to a sound devices. Only thing is I stupidly didnt have it turned up enough when testing, and now, when recording on the field it seems I have to have the thing right cranked if I want to get the dialog at around -18 to -12db. This brings in alot of noise.. which is depressing. (using me66)

However, I just did a voice-over recording in a soft, quiet room using an electo-voice dynamic handheld interview mic (not requiring power obviously) and it sounded damn good (talent had loud voice mind you..)

Dont have enough mics to do much testing.. is why I thought I'd poke around here.. hoping I had a bad me66 (bought it used) but might not be the case :(

One thing I've noticed for sure is the mixed reviews this thing gets.. ppl seem to love it or hate it. (are we getting different units?)

I'd love to get it modded, with a better pre-amp but can't find anywhere on that site that advertises it.. pls tell me how much you paid, and if it's worth it!

Cheers