FP 33 and XL2

[Steve Oakley]

the mixer doesn't care if its a wall wart or battery power. what it wants is hot DC voltage in the range of 24-28V for best performance. a 12V wall wart or battery in that range is under volting the mixer and it won't even perform at spec at those voltage ranges. 9V batteries are ok, but are on the bottom end of the units performance range as they sink to under 20V for most of their run time. you could try the high end rechargable 9Vs. the 2 battery packs cost me about $30 ea and I charge them on my PAG charger. however, I did make a box to as master power. in the on position it supplies 28V to the mixer, and thru a 12V regulator, 12V to the lectros. in the off position is takes the batteries from series to parralel and feeds them out to a charging connector & cable I built. not a simple setup, but I put it together for a total of about $100 in parts, which was much cheaper then a SD 442.

as for the return, you take the headphone out from the camera and on the mixer end it goes to the MON RET jack. place the switch into the MON position and you'll be getting the camera audio back. you'll have to adjust the camera headphone level so that it matches in level between mixer and return. ideally you need a break away cable that sends 2 XLR's to the camera and returns the 1/8" stereo headphone back.

[Steve Oakley]

the mixer doesn't care if its a wall wart or battery power. what it wants is hot DC voltage in the range of 24-28V for best performance. a 12V wall wart or battery in that range is under volting the mixer and it won't even perform at spec at those voltage ranges. a 24V wallwart would work well but stay away from electronic switching power supply types unless its a well filtered output. power supply noise on this mixer will make it into the audio.

this mixer is quite dependent on the input voltage. its a real old school design depsite its modern surface mount board. sure should of did a internal power supply to properly handle this, but they didn't.

9V batteries are ok, but are on the bottom end of the units performance range as they sink to under 20V for most of their run time. you could try the high end rechargable 9Vs. the 2 battery I have packs cost me about $30 ea and I charge them on my PAG charger. however, I did make a box to as master power. in the on position it supplies 28V to the mixer, and thru a 12V regulator, 12V to the lectros. in the off position is takes the batteries from series to parralel and feeds them out to a charging connector & cable I built. not a simple setup, but I put it together for a total of about $100 in parts, which was much cheaper then a SD 442.

as for the return, you take the headphone out from the camera and on the mixer end it goes to the MON RET jack. place the switch into the MON position and you'll be getting the camera audio back. you'll have to adjust the camera headphone level so that it matches in level between mixer and return. ideally you need a break away cable that sends 2 XLR's to the camera and returns the 1/8" stereo headphone back.

[Josh Bass]

The power thing sounds like I'd have to have someone build it for me. Kind of weird that the brochures for the mixer mention that it runs on two 9v batteries, if nothing but your setup is under-feeding it.

Isn't that cable called a "pigtail", when all three (two XLRs and a return) are together? Also, I often work as a one-man band. . .can't I just monitor directly of the camera from its headphone jack?

[Steve Oakley]

2 9V is what they measure the specs on, but in the manual and on the unit it states max volt as 30V. what they don't say is they skimped on the PS design and should of included a stepup up power supply to properly run the op amps in the unit. it was by trial and error that I figured this out as I found performance on a single 14.4V battery had problems with clipping.

the cable is called a breakaway cable mainly because they all have a connector on the camera end that allows a quick connect/disconnect. while you can get away with using a pair of XLR's in an emergency, you'll find its a real PITA after a while. if you have to move around a proper breakaway cable will pay for itself the first day out.

yes you can monitor directly from the camera headphone jack if you are next to the camera. normally if you are running audio, you're next to the mixer to listening to the return there makes sense. most breakaway cables have a 1/8 jack on the camera end to split the headphone out as most cameras only have one headphone out. JVC on the HD series cameras provides 2. can't imagine how they were the first to include such a badly needed feature

[Josh Bass]

Couldn't I just band a two XLRs and a 1/8" to 1/8" (or the split) cable together with tape or something, and call it a break away cable? I only run audio insomuch as I usually have to when I do video. I'm not at all an audio guy.

[Steve Oakley]

for an emergency yes. trust me you'll really come to hate this if you move around a lot during a shoot day. its also posses a saftey hazard as far as not being able to disconnect with a quick pull of the multipin connector. always having this thing tied to the camera gets old really fast. even just moving around in the same room. if you make a cable like this, you have to disconnect 3 wires and a velcro band to hold it to the camera handle, then connect it again. repeat this more then once a day and a real breakaway will get up on your priority list.

if you want, you can get 7pin XLR's and make your own. if you google around I think you can find the standard pin wiring. Eng is the last name of the guy who makes cables based on the XLR7 and is based in mineapolis. you can also use Nuetricon connectors but the are hard to find and a bit expensive. there is ebay where I picked up a like new used cable for $150.

[Josh Bass]

The kind of stuff I do is usually very stationary (ery?) and if we move, it's only every couple hours. I will look into it.

[Ty Ford]

]Ok, I tried the -20/-18 thing, going from mic out of the mixer to the mic ins on the XL2, set tone at -20. I yelled into a ME66 from right next to it. Even when the mixer's pegging, and I can hear the distortion when monitoring out of the camera, the camera's meters still only show around -6, even as I yell louder and louder. What does that tell us?

>>>>You may be crashing the mic itself or the preamp input by screaming

. That the camera meters only show -6 is weird. You are using a pair of XLR cables, one for each camera input? (Sorry, just trying to ferret this out)

>>>>Some mixers have internal adjustments for different calibrations. I don't know if the FP 33 does or not. (Anyone?!)

>>>>You don't have the Camera ATT switches on do you?

I guess I always thought the point of tone was to sync the camera and the mixer in such a way that 0 on a mixer = a certain level in the camera (-20, -12, whatever), so that as you watch the mixer's meters, you know what the cam's getting.

>>>>Yes, that's exactly what's supposed to happen. I wonder if something's wrong with the mixer; meter out of whack or something

Or...does the mixer manual go into where to set the controls to send tone?

Shure's customer service dept. is very good. Call them and go over what you're doing to see if there's something you're missing.

Regards,

Ty Ford

[Josh Bass]

The mixer was purchased used (one of the reasons I got it over a SD302), maybe I'll send it for service. Everything sounds fine, and I've seen other FP33s do this, where the meters don't seem to match what a camera meter sees.

Yes, I used two XLRs out, mic level, to the cam's mic inputs. Didn't have the ATT settings on.

You can adjust the settings for tone and limiters and several other things--but they're weird adjustments involving potentiometers and voltmeters, and except for a few DIP switches. The seller was certain none of the pots had been messed with.

The basic idea that it boils down to is that I WANT the camera to max out when the mixer maxes out? Or I don't?

[Steve Oakley]

the issue might be that the limiters have been turned down to something like +12 or even +8/6 to match a betaSP meter. try turning off the limiter on the mixer and see if it changes. I'll also say if you don't run the input voltage hot, the limiter can clip, certainly when run on 12-14V it will. if you are on 2 9v's you should be in ok shape

adjusting the mixer isn't that big a deal. if anything, you can turn the output pots fully clockwise for the limiters which is where they come from the factory. the meters are also adjustable and hopefullly no one messed with them. I'll also say, the meters on the 33 really won't jive with the camera outside of tone anyways. always watch the camera and skip the mixer meters as long as they aren't totally low or pegged high, its working ok.if anything the channel LEDs are the best indication you're good - they should flicker mostly on.

[Josh Bass]

Good point! I will try that.

[Ty Ford]

Originally Posted by Josh Bass

The mixer was purchased used (one of the reasons I got it over a SD302), maybe I'll send it for service. Everything sounds fine, and I've seen other FP33s do this, where the meters don't seem to match what a camera meter sees.

Yes, I used two XLRs out, mic level, to the cam's mic inputs. Didn't have the ATT settings on.

You can adjust the settings for tone and limiters and several other things--but they're weird adjustments involving potentiometers and voltmeters, and except for a few DIP switches. The seller was certain none of the pots had been messed with.

The basic idea that it boils down to is that I WANT the camera to max out when the mixer maxes out? Or I don't?

Exactly! Call Shure.

Regards,

Ty Ford

[Josh Bass]

Ok, so with the limiter off, yes, the camera will max out with everything else set the same.

I would really prefer to stay with plug-in power, if I could--I rarely need to be battery operated on the gigs where I use a mixer. Can you guys recommend something external that will juice it with 24-28v, and not cause noise?

[Steve Oakley]

try ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Universal-Laptop...QQcmdZViewItem

although this is a switching supply which I'd tend to stay away from. try searching to 24V power supply transformer, ect.

[Josh Bass]

Thanks. But if I find one that isn't a switching supply, it'll work as well as battery system feeding it hot voltage?