Building a quality audio package with 6-8k budget

[John DeLuca]

Ive been reading up on this for awhile and I think its time to jump in. Here is the parts list so far-

-Porta Brace AO-1.5x Audio Organizer Case
-Porta Brace AH-3H-MEMM Audio Harness and Belt
-Sound Devices 702
-K-Tek K-102CCR Boom
-K-Tek K-EX50 Boom Extension Section
-Audio Technica AT8415 Shock mount
-Canare Star Quad XLR cables
-Extras- cable binders, piggin string, rip ties, gaffer tape, sharpies, ect
-Porta Brace SK-3 pouch side kit
-Shoeps MK-41/CMC6
-Sennheiser MKH-60
-Rycote Softie


Ok, so here are my questions.

For the Shoeps MK-41/CMC6- What is the ideal range from the source? What is the max distance? I am concerned it will sound thin if I boom it to far away for wider shots. Any advice?

For the MKH-60- What is the ideal range from the source? What is the max distance? Also, will the softie be enough or do I need the more expensive wind jammer kit?

In general- Am I missing anything critical or is this a solid sound package to start with?

-John

[Jimmy Tuffrey]

Yes the softie will be enough .... until it gets really windy ... then it won't be...
Depends how important it is to you to have unaffected sound from it. Maybe you are after intelligibility and not fidelity so you can whack in a lot of high pass filtering should the wind get too strong. Maybe your on a boat in the middle of the atlantic and there's a gale blowing.... Seems a pity to buy a great mic like a MKH60 and then skimp on the zeppelin but balancing the budget is exactly that - a balance.

[Steve Oakley]

the AT mount is not so great unless maybe you change the suspension to the K-tek SUS Deluxe 4 Point Polymer Suspension Mounts. look at the new Rycote S series with the new suspension system. you can use it W/O the zepplin indoors if you don't need the full protection. about $350 for the full rig but you'll need and extra tube for the MKH60... or just use the CMC641 in the longer tube which is ok .the CMC641 needs a quality suspension if you are actively booming around.

I'd also really recommend the Petrol cases over the portabrace. the Petrol stuff is more configurable, and better sealed. wish I had a pic of myself working this winter in a snow storm with the petrol bag :) kept the snow out. the bright orange interior is also helpful when you drop something into the case and are looking around for it.

[Dan Brockett]

Originally Posted by John DeLuca

Ive been reading up on this for awhile and I think its time to jump in. Here is the parts list so far-

-Porta Brace AO-1.5x Audio Organizer Case
-Porta Brace AH-3H-MEMM Audio Harness and Belt
-Sound Devices 702
-K-Tek K-102CCR Boom
-K-Tek K-EX50 Boom Extension Section
-Audio Technica AT8415 Shock mount
-Canare Star Quad XLR cables
-Extras- cable binders, piggin string, rip ties, gaffer tape, sharpies, ect
-Porta Brace SK-3 pouch side kit
-Shoeps MK-41/CMC6
-Sennheiser MKH-60
-Rycote Softie


Ok, so here are my questions.

For the Shoeps MK-41/CMC6- What is the ideal range from the source? What is the max distance? I am concerned it will sound thin if I boom it to far away for wider shots. Any advice?

For the MKH-60- What is the ideal range from the source? What is the max distance? Also, will the softie be enough or do I need the more expensive wind jammer kit?

In general- Am I missing anything critical or is this a solid sound package to start with?

-John

John:

Headphones?
Lavaliers?
Wireless?

To obtain quality sound, your mic will need to be within 1-3 feet from subject, any further away and you begin to compromise your sound. I highly suggest adding a full zeppelin as Jimmy and the others have alluded to. Softies are fine for outdoors in little to no wind. Once the wind picks up, without a zeppelin, you are out of business.

I would read this article if you have not already, not so much for specific gear recommendations but to make sure that you are buying everything that you need. http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage...ion_sound.html

Both are fine mics, you will really enjoy them. I would also suggest two wired lavs and possibly at least a basic wireless system.

Dan



Dan

[John DeLuca]

Thanks for the advice guys. I will definitely look into the zeppelin, petrol bag and K-tek SUS Deluxe suspension (I had a feeling the softie wasn’t enough).

To give you an idea, this is what I own now-

-Sony MDR-V900 Cans
-Senn ME-66
-Senn ME-67
-2x Senn Evolution 500 series with plug transmitters
-Foam wind screens

The list at the top of the page is what I intend to add to it.


What cans do you guys use on the field?


-John

[Abe Dolinger]

The most popular cans are probably the Sony MDR-7506, which I use and like - clear and durable. Many prefer the Sennheiser HD-25 or the Sony 7509.

I'd forgo the low-priced Senn shotguns, but that's because I just don't like the way they sound. I also think they won't cut with your nice hypers. For a starter kit I doubt you'll need a long shotgun like the 67. I'd recommend a 416 or a mid-priced AT as a lagging second.

For a shockmount I like the Rycote pistol grip. As others have noted, the zeppelin is often essential.

Lavs - depending on budget, two Trams, Senn MKE-2s, or Countryman B6s. There's nothing as satisfying as hiding a B6 in plain sight. So far I'm not a fan of the COS-11s but maybe I just have to give them some time.

For the record, I really love the way the Schoeps sounds on an exterior wide, at least when the actors have plenty of volume.

[Steve Oakley]

for headphones, Senn HD280's is my preference mainly for much better isolation then 7506's, same price.they also grab your head better and won't fall off

as for wireless, well it all depends. some used lectro's might be a good choice too. can't picture not having at least one channel. if you go that route - lavs should end in connector for wireless, then add ambient adaptor for hardwire option. many options for lavs, check out the review of them that was just posted. DPA and some lavs can end in wireless connector + have supplied XLR adaptor.

also what about a breakaway cable to camera ? wireless camera hop ?

[John DeLuca]

I would love to add Countryman B6s to the collection (probably the next thing to build on).

***I'd forgo the low-priced Senn shotguns, but that's because I just don't like the way they sound. I also think they won't cut with your nice hypers. For a starter kit I doubt you'll need a long shotgun like the 67. I'd recommend a 416 or a mid-priced AT as a lagging second.***

I agree. They are the mics I started out with five years ago so its defiantly time for an upgrade. We are mainly shooting staged advertisements like the “so easy a caveman can do it” Geico commercial. The quality mics should be a great combo with the SI-2k image.

Steve- I looked into the Rycote S series and the longer tube does look like the best option.


-John

[John DeLuca]

Just out of curiosity………. Has anyone seen the cans the sound guys use on some of the discovery channel shows? They look huge and way overbuilt (almost like a helecoptor headset).

-John

[Jon Fairhurst]

Originally Posted by Steve Oakley

for headphones, Senn HD280's is my preference mainly for much better isolation then 7506's, same price.they also grab your head better and won't fall off

I've had the Senn 280s for some time now. I like their natural sound for double-checking a mix, and as a last resort for mixing when I can't use speakers (like in an office setting).

For the field and for studio tracking many prefer the Sony 7506/7509 sound. They have more high-end emphasis which can help cut through the outside sound. But yes, the 280s really grab (and can be a bit tight for long sessions when new), and they have better isolation.

There is a company that modifies 7506s to have more isolation. (Do a Google search, you'll find them.) Maybe that's what the Discovery team uses.

[Renton Maclachlan]

Before you race out and get a zepplin for around $us700, you should check out the ones from the Punjab in India on Ebay for a third of the price. I have checked the Zepplin photos against the one I got from India and they look to all intents and purposes the same - except for no carry case. It has an integrated shock mount that can be used without the blimp covers.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Long-Blimp-Winds...2em118Q2el1247

[Steve House]

Originally Posted by John DeLuca

Just out of curiosity………. Has anyone seen the cans the sound guys use on some of the discovery channel shows? They look huge and way overbuilt (almost like a helecoptor headset).

-John

http://remoteaudio.com/hn7506.htm

[Dan Keaton]

The Sony 7506 and 7509HD are much lighter than the remote audio units.

The remote audio units are much heavier and provide much better isolation, but I have heard that they get uncomfortable for all day shoots due to their weight.