Audio drifts at DVinfo.net

Jeff Harper · April 20th, 2008, 08:06 AM

I have a Zoom H2. Lovely little gadget, but after the audio is brought into Vegas, I find it doesn't match. Very gradually over time it is out-of-sync.

What feature do I need in a new recorder so that it will match my video footage?

I am fed up with wireless mic hassles and interference. Mind you the wireless interference has only greatly affected two wedding videos in two years, but that is two too many. I never again want to tell a bride her video was f*****d up because of interference.

Steve Oakley · April 20th, 2008, 10:12 AM

well what wireless are you using ? like anything else, people tend to buy cheap, get burned, then realize that sometimes you have to just pay the big bux for the great gear and not look back. in the end buying cheap is more expensive because you buy twice :(

realisitcally the new Zaxcom 900 series is the tool. since the transmitter can record to a SD card for 12 hrs, RF hits taking out the signal is a thing of the past as you have a backup that will be 100%. stepping down just a little, a used lectro 200 series would be a great option in the $2k range.

now that said, have you lost large chunks of audio, or simply taken a couple of small hits and lost a word or two ? how often are you shooting to say that twice in 2 years is a lot ? if you work 2 a weekend on average, about 100 days a year thats pretty good actually.

Jeff Harper · April 20th, 2008, 10:29 AM

Using PR 81 (AKG) and the quality is outstanding when it works, which is most the time. I do about 40 weddings a year. I worked a church a month ago and it was mostly static due to the place being some kind of "hot spot" as the church's sound guy tells me AFTER the ceremony.

Over $1000 is not going to happen.

Steve House · April 20th, 2008, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Harper

I have a Zoom H2. Lovely little gadget, but after the audio is brought into Vegas, I find it doesn't match. Very gradually over time it is out-of-sync.

What feature do I need in a new recorder so that it will match my video footage?

....

To be certain that a double-system recorder will maintain sync with the camera over longer takes, you need some way of slaving the sync clocks in the camera and the recorder together. Note that these are NOT the same as the timecode clocks. There are a variety of ways to accomplish this but the most economical solution I can think of off hand is to upgrade your audio recorder to a Tascam HD-P2 that accepts composite video, blackburst, or tri-level sync from your camera and slaves its clock to it. Of course if you're looking for something to slip into the groom's pocket like you can with the Zoom the Tascam's a bit too big. There are other ways of doing it but they require a camera with genlock I/O and/or much more expensive recorders and things like Lockit boxes.

Jeff Harper · April 20th, 2008, 10:40 AM

Thanks for the input. I suppose I might look at new wireless system. Mine was considered pretty good in it's day. Can anyone offer guidance as to what to look for in a new one as far as the ability to avoid interference?

Roger Shore · April 20th, 2008, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Harper

I have a Zoom H2. Lovely little gadget, but after the audio is brought into Vegas, I find it doesn't match. Very gradually over time it is out-of-sync.
What feature do I need in a new recorder so that it will match my video footage?

You may find some of the comments in this thread useful, particularly those from Steve House.

Jeff Harper · April 20th, 2008, 11:09 AM

Thanks Roger, very informative. Bottom line, I can use the Zoom, just chop up the audio. Since I'm primarily concerned about the vows, it's not a huge deal. Again, exellent thread, thanks for directing me there.

Jimmy Tuffrey · April 20th, 2008, 11:19 AM

I would not be too happy getting married with a zoom h2 in my pocket. Or suggesting it to someone else. They are not 'that' small. It would ruin the hang of most suits would it not?.

Jeff Harper · April 20th, 2008, 11:20 AM

They are bulky, no doubt. Any suggestions for a smaller one that is as good or better for less than $500?

Steve Oakley · April 20th, 2008, 11:38 AM

you need to be realistic about this. a reliable solution at the price you want to pay isn't going to really happen. you're going to have to pick your level of reliability vs price at under $1k. also, how much have you already spent on cheap solutions that aren't working ? add them up. take what you've got, send them to ebay, and roll the cash over into something new.

a high quality wireless is a long term investment. unlike your camera which is near worthless in 3 years or so, a solid wireless will last you 10+ years. once you look at it that way, its a pretty cheap investment, never mind the peice of mind.

1st go to lectrosonics.com and look for the frequency tables. it will show you which freq's are open in your part of the country. once you know what freq's are open, you can then pick a wireless unit which should be ok.

you could try a audio technica 1800 which is diversity ( well the atennea's are really too close together for best results ) and there is a 2 transmitter 1ch receiver setup for $700 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...icrophone.html

or the full 2 channel reciever 2 transmitters for $1300
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._Wireless.html

since they are tunable its possible that this might meet your needs and price range. people here seem to like them, but lectro's they aren't.

Jeff Harper · April 20th, 2008, 11:49 AM

Thanks for the info Steve. Actually the kit I'm using was a favorite in this forum at one time. I suspect at this point in time it is simpy outdated.

I appreciate the link to B and H, I had seen the $700 kit, but the two reviews for it were dismal. I'll look into it further.

Steve House · April 20th, 2008, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Oakley

you need to be realistic about this. a reliable solution at the price you want to pay isn't going to really happen. you're going to have to pick your level of reliability vs price at under $1k.
...
...
but lectro's they aren't.

Just for a reality check on the going price for the level of quality necessary to have a pocket-sized recorder that holds sync for those longer shots, take a look (okay, have a drool over) at the Zaxcom TRX901 wireless transmitter with internal backup CF card recorder, a mere $2150 or so not including receiver (but even it's tracks might eventually drift off).

A. J. deLange · April 20th, 2008, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Oakley

( well the atennea's are really too close together for best results )

Are these things spatial diversity? I always assumed they were frequency diversity (because the antennas are so close to one another).

Don Bloom · April 20th, 2008, 02:16 PM

I'll stick my 2cents worth in here since everyone seems to be talking about the AT1800. I have it, use it alot and frankly love it. I have not suffered any hits with it, the only noise I hear is minimal the receiver is a treat the body pak is plastic but solid. I do not use the stock mics I use Countryman EMWs one for the body pak and anXLR connection mic which I run thru a phantom box and the AT plugin transmitter. I use that on the lectern and for receptions I use the plugin on my Sennhiser e604 mic in front of the speakers.
I like the fact that I can adjust the levels (at least somewhat) on the receiver and I can also MIX the 2 mics on the receiver to go to seperate outs or to the same output-depending on what the need is.
The one thing I'm not crazy about is the miniXLR output connection. While they give you the cable to go from that to standard XLR I don't like the idea of having to use an intermediate cable to go from the receiver to my camera or mixer (depending on what my needs are). If the camera is on the tripod then I don't need the extra cable but there are times I do and I would prefer not having to use it. Time to make up a couple cables.
My take is the 1800 is definately a 5 star unit for the money. Nope, it's not a Lectro but for the work I do it works just fine and so far no complaints.

Don

Jeff Harper · April 20th, 2008, 03:09 PM

Thanks for sharing your experience on the wireless, Don. Interestingly, if I get ANY noise from my current mic, I cannot hear it. Mine has worked so well and has such beautiful sound quality I hate to abandon it. I am sure I will use it until it's not usable anymore, even if only as a back-up.

That being said, I have liked Audio Technica products in the past, though never has a wireless made by them.

I probably will order a new kit at some point soon, and I will look hard at the AT1800.

Now, back to digital voice recorders! Can anyone recommend one with the quality of the H2 without the bulk? I've accepted I will have to chop the audio up when I use it to keep it synced.

April 20th, 2008, 08:06 AM	#1
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Audio drifts I have a Zoom H2. Lovely little gadget, but after the audio is brought into Vegas, I find it doesn't match. Very gradually over time it is out-of-sync. What feature do I need in a new recorder so that it will match my video footage? I am fed up with wireless mic hassles and interference. Mind you the wireless interference has only greatly affected two wedding videos in two years, but that is two too many. I never again want to tell a bride her video was f*****d up because of interference.

April 20th, 2008, 02:16 PM	#14
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	I'll stick my 2cents worth in here since everyone seems to be talking about the AT1800. I have it, use it alot and frankly love it. I have not suffered any hits with it, the only noise I hear is minimal the receiver is a treat the body pak is plastic but solid. I do not use the stock mics I use Countryman EMWs one for the body pak and anXLR connection mic which I run thru a phantom box and the AT plugin transmitter. I use that on the lectern and for receptions I use the plugin on my Sennhiser e604 mic in front of the speakers. I like the fact that I can adjust the levels (at least somewhat) on the receiver and I can also MIX the 2 mics on the receiver to go to seperate outs or to the same output-depending on what the need is. The one thing I'm not crazy about is the miniXLR output connection. While they give you the cable to go from that to standard XLR I don't like the idea of having to use an intermediate cable to go from the receiver to my camera or mixer (depending on what my needs are). If the camera is on the tripod then I don't need the extra cable but there are times I do and I would prefer not having to use it. Time to make up a couple cables. My take is the 1800 is definately a 5 star unit for the money. Nope, it's not a Lectro but for the work I do it works just fine and so far no complaints. Don Last edited by Don Bloom; April 20th, 2008 at 02:18 PM. Reason: fat fingers mistakes

April 20th, 2008, 10:12 AM	#2
Steve Oakley Trustee Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: United States Posts: 1,158	well what wireless are you using ? like anything else, people tend to buy cheap, get burned, then realize that sometimes you have to just pay the big bux for the great gear and not look back. in the end buying cheap is more expensive because you buy twice :( realisitcally the new Zaxcom 900 series is the tool. since the transmitter can record to a SD card for 12 hrs, RF hits taking out the signal is a thing of the past as you have a backup that will be 100%. stepping down just a little, a used lectro 200 series would be a great option in the $2k range. now that said, have you lost large chunks of audio, or simply taken a couple of small hits and lost a word or two ? how often are you shooting to say that twice in 2 years is a lot ? if you work 2 a weekend on average, about 100 days a year thats pretty good actually.

April 20th, 2008, 10:29 AM	#3
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Using PR 81 (AKG) and the quality is outstanding when it works, which is most the time. I do about 40 weddings a year. I worked a church a month ago and it was mostly static due to the place being some kind of "hot spot" as the church's sound guy tells me AFTER the ceremony. Over $1000 is not going to happen.

April 20th, 2008, 10:40 AM	#5
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Thanks for the input. I suppose I might look at new wireless system. Mine was considered pretty good in it's day. Can anyone offer guidance as to what to look for in a new one as far as the ability to avoid interference?

April 20th, 2008, 11:09 AM	#7
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Thanks Roger, very informative. Bottom line, I can use the Zoom, just chop up the audio. Since I'm primarily concerned about the vows, it's not a huge deal. Again, exellent thread, thanks for directing me there.

April 20th, 2008, 11:19 AM	#8
Jimmy Tuffrey Major Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bristol U.K. Posts: 244	I would not be too happy getting married with a zoom h2 in my pocket. Or suggesting it to someone else. They are not 'that' small. It would ruin the hang of most suits would it not?.

April 20th, 2008, 11:20 AM	#9
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	They are bulky, no doubt. Any suggestions for a smaller one that is as good or better for less than $500?

April 20th, 2008, 11:38 AM	#10
Steve Oakley Trustee Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: United States Posts: 1,158	you need to be realistic about this. a reliable solution at the price you want to pay isn't going to really happen. you're going to have to pick your level of reliability vs price at under $1k. also, how much have you already spent on cheap solutions that aren't working ? add them up. take what you've got, send them to ebay, and roll the cash over into something new. a high quality wireless is a long term investment. unlike your camera which is near worthless in 3 years or so, a solid wireless will last you 10+ years. once you look at it that way, its a pretty cheap investment, never mind the peice of mind. 1st go to lectrosonics.com and look for the frequency tables. it will show you which freq's are open in your part of the country. once you know what freq's are open, you can then pick a wireless unit which should be ok. you could try a audio technica 1800 which is diversity ( well the atennea's are really too close together for best results ) and there is a 2 transmitter 1ch receiver setup for $700 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...icrophone.html or the full 2 channel reciever 2 transmitters for $1300 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._Wireless.html since they are tunable its possible that this might meet your needs and price range. people here seem to like them, but lectro's they aren't.

April 20th, 2008, 11:49 AM	#11
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Thanks for the info Steve. Actually the kit I'm using was a favorite in this forum at one time. I suspect at this point in time it is simpy outdated. I appreciate the link to B and H, I had seen the $700 kit, but the two reviews for it were dismal. I'll look into it further.

April 20th, 2008, 03:09 PM	#15
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Thanks for sharing your experience on the wireless, Don. Interestingly, if I get ANY noise from my current mic, I cannot hear it. Mine has worked so well and has such beautiful sound quality I hate to abandon it. I am sure I will use it until it's not usable anymore, even if only as a back-up. That being said, I have liked Audio Technica products in the past, though never has a wireless made by them. I probably will order a new kit at some point soon, and I will look hard at the AT1800. Now, back to digital voice recorders! Can anyone recommend one with the quality of the H2 without the bulk? I've accepted I will have to chop the audio up when I use it to keep it synced.