Headphones recommendation?

Ian Smith · March 27th, 2008, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Davis

Ian,

I'd be VERY careful with this approach.

Nearly all noise cancellation headphones work by sampling the environmental sounds, then making a copy of them, inverting the phase of the sampled sound, and adding it back into the mix at at full level. This works great when the environmental sound being eliminated is completely unwanted - as is the case of jet engine noise when flying.

But using that same technology at, for example a rock concert - what you're doing is taking samples of the BAND sounds out of the environment and inverse-mixing it back in with the BAND sounds you WANT to record.

I think this would have the potential to lead to TERRIBLE mixing in a concert, theatre, or any live recording setting.

FWIW.

Thanks for the warning. I'm a little confused here though. I thought the whole point of this was that the headphones cut out external sounds but left the recording source (ie the stuff that comes down the headphone wire) untouched. In such a situation I'm hearing what's going on to the memory cards, which is what I want, unpolluted by external sounds that might be seeping in through the headphones?

Or have I totally misunderstood how they work?

So far I've been happy with the results but the Bose are buggers to carry around so maybe I'll just switch back to the Sony's after all.

Mike Teutsch · March 27th, 2008, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian Smith

Thanks for the warning. I'm a little confused here though. I thought the whole point of this was that the headphones cut out external sounds but left the recording source (ie the stuff that comes down the headphone wire) untouched. In such a situation I'm hearing what's going on to the memory cards, which is what I want, unpolluted by external sounds that might be seeping in through the headphones?

Or have I totally misunderstood how they work?

So far I've been happy with the results but the Bose are buggers to carry around so maybe I'll just switch back to the Sony's after all.

They sound good don't they, but remember you are hearing what the headset wants you to hear not what actually goes on the tape. An external noise that might occur that is canceled in the headset, but not on the recording. Perhaps a noise is louder behind you and not so loud to the mic, but the headset will cancel it out in the headset, not prevent the mic from picking it up.

I know I'm staying away from them. Perhaps you could do a little test for us?

Good Luck----Mike
Mike

Piotr Wozniacki · March 27th, 2008, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Teutsch

Perhaps a noise is louder behind you and not so loud to the mic, but the headset will cancel it out in the headset, not prevent the mic from picking it up.

If the mic is picking it, then it can be monitored via the headset. And only as much as the mic is really picking it, so I guess Ian is right.

I'm going with the Sennheiser HD 25-1 II, though.

Eric Pascarelli · March 27th, 2008, 06:23 PM

The point of he noise canceling headsets is to cancel noise coming to your ears and then add the sound coming through the mic (or whatever) on top of the resulting approximation of silence.

Try a set of them on with no signal connected and you'll see that they create a much better (but far from perfect) listening environment for trying to hear your production sound than passive phones.

There is no reason why NC phones shouldn't give a true indication of what is actually being recorded. They're a closer approximation of a "sound proof booth" to monitor from. The only real caveat is that the noise canceling phones tend to block lower frequencies better than higher frequencies.

But passive phones also block ambient sound with a non-linear frequency response - perhaps blocking high frequencies more then low frequencies.

Anyway, my vote is for a good set of noise canceling phones. They're the lightest and simplest way to create a reasonable listening environment while standing in the middle of the action.

And they'll have no effect on the recorded signal - they'll just allow you to hear it more clearly. Ian is right.

Akira Hakuta · March 27th, 2008, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Pascarelli

They're the lightest and simplest way to create a reasonable listening environment while standing in the middle of the action.

I think in-ear-monitors would win this title hands-down, and if you get a good pair their sound quality is in many cases as good as the upper-tier over-ear style headphones. They reduce noise at least as well as active noise canceling headphones (arguably better in my opinion) but with none of the active circuitry in the signal path; what you hear is what your camera is recording.

Eric Pascarelli · March 27th, 2008, 07:34 PM

on that note:

http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/rev...ion-earphones/

Dean Sensui · March 27th, 2008, 08:52 PM

I'm using Etymotic ER-6 in-ear monitors.

They sound pretty good and work very well when it comes to cutting out external noise. It even helps sometimes as earplugs to protect my hearing in loud environments.

http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/er6.aspx

They're also very compact.

The only drawback is that if I'm monitoring audio I can't hear if a director's talking to me. And they can be a bit troublesome to pull out and re-insert too often.

Martin Catt · March 27th, 2008, 10:06 PM

Another vote for Sony MDR7506's. I use 'em for recording live bands in small bar venues. They haven't let me down (yet).

Martin

Kurt Heim · March 28th, 2008, 07:31 AM

What about the over-the-ear Bose headphones that don't have noise cancelling? Has anybody used those? Either way, they are probably more expensive then the Sony 7506's because of the Bose name!

Kurt Heim · March 28th, 2008, 07:48 AM

I just got off the phone with a Bose tech named Craig, and the active noise cancelling for their Quiet Comfort Headphone do not in any way mess with the audio coming from the camera. I have some first hand knowledge with their headphones as I am a corporate pilot also and we use the Bose Aviaion Headsets in the cockpit and the audio we hear from ATC is no different then when they are turned off. The only thing the noise cancelling does is gets rid of the ambient sounds outside of your headphones.

He stated whatever that microphone on your camera is picking up and recording will be heard through the Bose headsets with no electronic magic being done to that part. The noise cancelling microphone is on the outside of the earcups so as to get rid of unwanted noise that might be making it through your earcups and interfering with what you are hearing and recording from the camera. Sounds to me that this would be the best way of hearing exactly what you are going to have recorded.

The way I see it is that if their is something loud enough like an airplane flying by your shoot at a low altitude, you may not hear the plane directly from outside your headphones(it is trying to cancel that), but if the mic is picking it up, you will hear it through the camera and headphones anyway to let you know that is what is being recorded!

Hope that helps!

Steve Shovlar · March 28th, 2008, 12:24 PM

Sony 7506. Can't go wrong they are great.

Mark Willey · April 17th, 2008, 12:26 PM

I know this thread is a little old but I wanted to weigh in with an option not yet mentioned. After years of using Sony 7506s, including a memorable moment when I was electrocuted by a short that passed through the metal drivers to my ear tips on a job in Israel after the foam had disintegrated, I recently acquired a pair of Audio Tecnica ATH-M50 headphones. I love them. I do a lot of work editing classical music recordings and it requires accurate depth and detail to make sure the edits are inaudible. These headphones have not let me down. They sound great (all headphones have a "color" of their own) and being closed they isolate well outside sounds. I find them much more comfortable than my old 7506s. They also fold up into a carry pouch and will definitely be a part of my EX1 kit when it arrives tomorrow (fingers firmly crossed).

Oh, my Sony cans have a short at the jack end and sound is intermittent in one ear. The ATs have a steel spring strain relief to protect this critical area and a coiled cord so if someone trips on it it won't break what it's plugged into. I've seen that happen on an $18,000 audio interface!

Dave Morrison · April 17th, 2008, 03:13 PM

I've read some amazing things about the M50's so this is good to know. I've been buying Sony 7509's and a few of their V-series predecessors and I love the sound and feel of them. However, the earpads of the Sonys are USELESS. Every Sony headphone I've bought in the last 10 years has started flaking apart within one year. I perspire a lot but this is ridiculous and replacement pads from Sony are fairly pricey. I'm seriously thinking about switching to the AT's. Are the earpads of the M50's true leather or some weird laminated material like Sony uses?

Piotr Wozniacki · May 13th, 2008, 09:37 AM

Just got my Sennheiser HD 25-1 II, and I must admit they are absolutely marvellous! I'm feeling like I am inside my EX1 :)

I can actually hear the difference between various mics, whether the low-cut filter is engaged or not in the camera or the mic - not to mention distortion when overloaded, or hiss with sensitivity too low and output cranked up!

Jon Fairhurst · May 13th, 2008, 11:15 AM

NOISE CANCELING: These cans often have terrible low frequency response. The LF from your signal couples mechanically into the noise mic. I'd avoid these, unless you're on a plane with an iPod.

IN-EAR: These have great isolation, but mechanically couple your body sounds and any friction on the cord straight to your ears. Make sure that the cord has a nice loop, and don't eat an apple when wearing them!

MDH-7506: Great for ENG and studio tracking, but not neutral for mixing. Comfortable.

SENN HD 280 PRO: These are quite neutral to my ears, and have good isolation. They're tight and heavy, so they won't fall off, and are rugged, but aren't the most comfortable solution.

BEST ISOLATION: Use in-ear headphones and wear unplugged noise canceling headphones over them. You'll hear your breathing and heartbeat.

March 27th, 2008, 08:52 PM	#22
Dean Sensui Inner Circle Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 2,054	I'm using Etymotic ER-6 in-ear monitors. They sound pretty good and work very well when it comes to cutting out external noise. It even helps sometimes as earplugs to protect my hearing in loud environments. http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/er6.aspx They're also very compact. The only drawback is that if I'm monitoring audio I can't hear if a director's talking to me. And they can be a bit troublesome to pull out and re-insert too often. __________________ Dean Sensui Exec Producer, Hawaii Goes Fishing

March 27th, 2008, 10:06 PM	#23
Martin Catt Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: The Colony TX Posts: 327	Another vote for Sony MDR7506's. I use 'em for recording live bands in small bar venues. They haven't let me down (yet). Martin __________________ Canon XF300, Canon 5DMkII, Canon XL2, Rolls MX422 mixer, Zoom H4N, AT899 lavs, AT2020's, Azden SGM 1X shotgun, Manfrotto 501 head on 351 tripod

March 28th, 2008, 07:48 AM	#25
Kurt Heim Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Jasper, IN Posts: 35	Direct from Bose Technician! I just got off the phone with a Bose tech named Craig, and the active noise cancelling for their Quiet Comfort Headphone do not in any way mess with the audio coming from the camera. I have some first hand knowledge with their headphones as I am a corporate pilot also and we use the Bose Aviaion Headsets in the cockpit and the audio we hear from ATC is no different then when they are turned off. The only thing the noise cancelling does is gets rid of the ambient sounds outside of your headphones. He stated whatever that microphone on your camera is picking up and recording will be heard through the Bose headsets with no electronic magic being done to that part. The noise cancelling microphone is on the outside of the earcups so as to get rid of unwanted noise that might be making it through your earcups and interfering with what you are hearing and recording from the camera. Sounds to me that this would be the best way of hearing exactly what you are going to have recorded. The way I see it is that if their is something loud enough like an airplane flying by your shoot at a low altitude, you may not hear the plane directly from outside your headphones(it is trying to cancel that), but if the mic is picking it up, you will hear it through the camera and headphones anyway to let you know that is what is being recorded! Hope that helps!

May 13th, 2008, 09:37 AM	#29
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	Just got my Sennheiser HD 25-1 II, and I must admit they are absolutely marvellous! I'm feeling like I am inside my EX1 :) I can actually hear the difference between various mics, whether the low-cut filter is engaged or not in the camera or the mic - not to mention distortion when overloaded, or hiss with sensitivity too low and output cranked up! __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive Last edited by Piotr Wozniacki; May 13th, 2008 at 10:29 AM.

May 13th, 2008, 11:15 AM	#30
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	NOISE CANCELING: These cans often have terrible low frequency response. The LF from your signal couples mechanically into the noise mic. I'd avoid these, unless you're on a plane with an iPod. IN-EAR: These have great isolation, but mechanically couple your body sounds and any friction on the cord straight to your ears. Make sure that the cord has a nice loop, and don't eat an apple when wearing them! MDH-7506: Great for ENG and studio tracking, but not neutral for mixing. Comfortable. SENN HD 280 PRO: These are quite neutral to my ears, and have good isolation. They're tight and heavy, so they won't fall off, and are rugged, but aren't the most comfortable solution. BEST ISOLATION: Use in-ear headphones and wear unplugged noise canceling headphones over them. You'll hear your breathing and heartbeat. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

March 27th, 2008, 06:23 PM	#19
Eric Pascarelli Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 498	The point of he noise canceling headsets is to cancel noise coming to your ears and then add the sound coming through the mic (or whatever) on top of the resulting approximation of silence. Try a set of them on with no signal connected and you'll see that they create a much better (but far from perfect) listening environment for trying to hear your production sound than passive phones. There is no reason why NC phones shouldn't give a true indication of what is actually being recorded. They're a closer approximation of a "sound proof booth" to monitor from. The only real caveat is that the noise canceling phones tend to block lower frequencies better than higher frequencies. But passive phones also block ambient sound with a non-linear frequency response - perhaps blocking high frequencies more then low frequencies. Anyway, my vote is for a good set of noise canceling phones. They're the lightest and simplest way to create a reasonable listening environment while standing in the middle of the action. And they'll have no effect on the recorded signal - they'll just allow you to hear it more clearly. Ian is right.

March 27th, 2008, 07:34 PM	#21
Eric Pascarelli Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 498	on that note: http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/rev...ion-earphones/

March 28th, 2008, 07:31 AM	#24
Kurt Heim Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Jasper, IN Posts: 35	What about the over-the-ear Bose headphones that don't have noise cancelling? Has anybody used those? Either way, they are probably more expensive then the Sony 7506's because of the Bose name!

March 28th, 2008, 12:24 PM	#26
Steve Shovlar Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Dorset UK Posts: 697	Sony 7506. Can't go wrong they are great.

April 17th, 2008, 12:26 PM	#27
Mark Willey Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 34	I know this thread is a little old but I wanted to weigh in with an option not yet mentioned. After years of using Sony 7506s, including a memorable moment when I was electrocuted by a short that passed through the metal drivers to my ear tips on a job in Israel after the foam had disintegrated, I recently acquired a pair of Audio Tecnica ATH-M50 headphones. I love them. I do a lot of work editing classical music recordings and it requires accurate depth and detail to make sure the edits are inaudible. These headphones have not let me down. They sound great (all headphones have a "color" of their own) and being closed they isolate well outside sounds. I find them much more comfortable than my old 7506s. They also fold up into a carry pouch and will definitely be a part of my EX1 kit when it arrives tomorrow (fingers firmly crossed). Oh, my Sony cans have a short at the jack end and sound is intermittent in one ear. The ATs have a steel spring strain relief to protect this critical area and a coiled cord so if someone trips on it it won't break what it's plugged into. I've seen that happen on an $18,000 audio interface!

April 17th, 2008, 03:13 PM	#28
Dave Morrison Major Player Join Date: May 2002 Location: West Central Florida Posts: 762	I've read some amazing things about the M50's so this is good to know. I've been buying Sony 7509's and a few of their V-series predecessors and I love the sound and feel of them. However, the earpads of the Sonys are USELESS. Every Sony headphone I've bought in the last 10 years has started flaking apart within one year. I perspire a lot but this is ridiculous and replacement pads from Sony are fairly pricey. I'm seriously thinking about switching to the AT's. Are the earpads of the M50's true leather or some weird laminated material like Sony uses?