I'm not going to use the camera for sound

Richard Gooderick · March 18th, 2008, 06:28 PM

I use a Fostex FR2 LE with my XH A1.

The sound quality is good.

With an 8gb card and big battery it will run all day on one charge at 48k 24 bit.

I got quite good results taping two DPA 4061s to the window as stereo boundary mics. Picked up five people in a room very well.

Syncing to camera isn't usually too difficult. In the NLE I find some spikes that match, line them up and adjust until the echo disappears. It helps if you can clap your hands at suitable points on the recording.

Larry Secrest · March 21st, 2008, 06:25 AM

Ty Ford,

It's going to be a scene in which only two people will be talking at the same time, so once I have an establishing shot of the table, I'll film the scene by getting only the two people talking. No big deal here. I know exactly how to film this scene, I'm just wondering about the quality of compressed audio coming out of a HDV cam compared to a seperate recorder
Thanks

Ty Ford · March 21st, 2008, 07:24 AM

Hello Larry,

Two thoughts.

1. Your shotgun is not the mic to use. For normal interiors you don't want an interference tube mic. The Audix scx-1 with hypercardioid capsule, Audio Technica 4053a and Schoeps cmc641 -- from low to high, in that order, will sound a lot better than your shotgun.

You don't talk about the acoustics of the space, but there's a world of difference between audio captured in a hard-surfaced kitchen and a comfy den.

2. You say two people talking at the same time. I'm thinking you probably don't mean that unless this is some sort of special situation. Normally people talk sequentially. If these people are close enough to each other, then you can get the best audio with a boom and operator who knows how to follow dialog.

If the talent is farther apart, two locked down booms will will work if the talent doesn't move. In a dramatic scene, this is not likely. In any case, be careful of head turns or looks to the floor while lines are given.

If there's a lot of motion -- too much for a good boom person to stay with, you have to go to lavs, each to a separate track, then combine in post.

As to the HDV audio issue; I'm an audio guy, first. 384 kbps mpeg stereo audio grinds my grits. Why, when the baseline for audio quality for digital audio has been 24-bit, 48 or 96 kHz sample rate PCM for quite a while now, the committee thought mpeg audio at 1/5 the rate of even 16-bit 44.1 kHz was a good idea is a travesty to me.

Yes, there will be a difference if you double record. When you (well me anyway) hear well recorded 24-bit audio captured well, I can hear the power, detail, and texture. Get the latest Pirates of the Carribbean film and listen to the interior dialog with a really good set of headphones. Very sweet. Mpeg audio loses that.

The difference will be mitigated by the audio gear you use and how you use it. If it's not going up for an academy award, and you pay very close attention to the audio, ::sigh::, you'll probably be OK. What's important is that you know there's better. As always, I encourage you to make it sound as good as possible.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Larry Secrest · March 21st, 2008, 05:44 PM

Ty, I've just noticed you're in Baltimore, so we're about 30 minutes away.
The group of people I'm talking about is a meal scene. Talent will be seated and I was thinking of a boom looked up, above the table.
Hey, if you have your weekends free can I hire you?
6 weekends starting end of APril? What do you need as far as fee?

Ty Ford · March 21st, 2008, 06:41 PM

Hello Larry,

I think I do have weekends at the end of April open. Please contact me off group.

Regards,

Ty Ford
tyreeford@comcast.net

March 21st, 2008, 07:24 AM	#18
Ty Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD USA Posts: 2,337	Hello Larry, Two thoughts. 1. Your shotgun is not the mic to use. For normal interiors you don't want an interference tube mic. The Audix scx-1 with hypercardioid capsule, Audio Technica 4053a and Schoeps cmc641 -- from low to high, in that order, will sound a lot better than your shotgun. You don't talk about the acoustics of the space, but there's a world of difference between audio captured in a hard-surfaced kitchen and a comfy den. 2. You say two people talking at the same time. I'm thinking you probably don't mean that unless this is some sort of special situation. Normally people talk sequentially. If these people are close enough to each other, then you can get the best audio with a boom and operator who knows how to follow dialog. If the talent is farther apart, two locked down booms will will work if the talent doesn't move. In a dramatic scene, this is not likely. In any case, be careful of head turns or looks to the floor while lines are given. If there's a lot of motion -- too much for a good boom person to stay with, you have to go to lavs, each to a separate track, then combine in post. As to the HDV audio issue; I'm an audio guy, first. 384 kbps mpeg stereo audio grinds my grits. Why, when the baseline for audio quality for digital audio has been 24-bit, 48 or 96 kHz sample rate PCM for quite a while now, the committee thought mpeg audio at 1/5 the rate of even 16-bit 44.1 kHz was a good idea is a travesty to me. Yes, there will be a difference if you double record. When you (well me anyway) hear well recorded 24-bit audio captured well, I can hear the power, detail, and texture. Get the latest Pirates of the Carribbean film and listen to the interior dialog with a really good set of headphones. Very sweet. Mpeg audio loses that. The difference will be mitigated by the audio gear you use and how you use it. If it's not going up for an academy award, and you pay very close attention to the audio, ::sigh::, you'll probably be OK. What's important is that you know there's better. As always, I encourage you to make it sound as good as possible. Regards, Ty Ford __________________ Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide Ty Ford's Audio Video Blog

March 21st, 2008, 06:41 PM	#20
Ty Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD USA Posts: 2,337	Hello Larry, I think I do have weekends at the end of April open. Please contact me off group. Regards, Ty Ford tyreeford@comcast.net __________________ Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide Ty Ford's Audio Video Blog

March 18th, 2008, 06:28 PM	#16
Richard Gooderick Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 795	I use a Fostex FR2 LE with my XH A1. The sound quality is good. With an 8gb card and big battery it will run all day on one charge at 48k 24 bit. I got quite good results taping two DPA 4061s to the window as stereo boundary mics. Picked up five people in a room very well. Syncing to camera isn't usually too difficult. In the NLE I find some spikes that match, line them up and adjust until the echo disappears. It helps if you can clap your hands at suitable points on the recording.

March 21st, 2008, 06:25 AM	#17
Larry Secrest Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bethesda, MD Posts: 404	Ty Ford, It's going to be a scene in which only two people will be talking at the same time, so once I have an establishing shot of the table, I'll film the scene by getting only the two people talking. No big deal here. I know exactly how to film this scene, I'm just wondering about the quality of compressed audio coming out of a HDV cam compared to a seperate recorder Thanks

March 21st, 2008, 05:44 PM	#19
Larry Secrest Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bethesda, MD Posts: 404	Ty, I've just noticed you're in Baltimore, so we're about 30 minutes away. The group of people I'm talking about is a meal scene. Talent will be seated and I was thinking of a boom looked up, above the table. Hey, if you have your weekends free can I hire you? 6 weekends starting end of APril? What do you need as far as fee?