Live Band Audio... Feed was too loud!

[Ty Ford]

Guessing what he meant and casting shade on it because it screwed you up really isn't the point.

It could have been a lot of things, some of it your fault.

Write it off as a lesson. Learn more so next time you know what's going on.

Sure you can buy cheap headphones, but that's just another way to nail yourself. Get what you need to do the job and stop inviting failure. Sony MDR 7506 or Audio-Technica ATH-M50. You decide. One or the other.

Regards,

Ty Ford

[Brooks Harrington]

Yep..TY.. JJ,..cam op needs headphones..... No fault of Sound board operator.
100% camera op. Sorry.
Sounds like line-to-mic overload. Should've notice a problem if you barely cracked open the gain pots and you got full scale.

[Allen Plowman]

I have a set of Audio Technica ATH-D40fs for use in loud environments. they are closed back headphones, and look similar to the ATH-M50 specs. the d40fs can be found for about half the price of the m50 at around 70 dollars I have sworn by the d40's for about 20 years now. I assume the m50 is a better set. if your short on cash, consider the d40. I am really curious as to the sound and performance difference between the two, I will probably buy an ATH-m50 the next time I need to replace mine.

[Ty Ford]

Brooks,

Don't feel too bad. This is, perhaps, the most frequent audio problem on shoots. Run some tone, set a level, stop tone, hear some audio, hit record.

FOR EVERYONE: You can pretty much eliminate the problem by listening to the audio during tone. Line level tone has a little hair around it even at -20 when it's feeding a mic input. After sending tone, grab one of the mics set a normal level on the mixer and talk into the mic. Everything OK? Then you are PROBABLY fine. Are you doing split tracks - one mic to one channel, one to the other? Then make sure you check BOTH are really getting to their proper channels. (This is the second most frequent mistake.)

Mistake #3: Tap the on-camera mic to make sure you haven't switched it on by mistake. (Unless you intended to use it.)

Mistake #3a: The shooter goes off to shoot B-roll and switches to the on-camera mic. When he/she comes back, you cable up without checking. Oops! You just lost one side of your audio. Camera Ops are notorious for this. You just can't trust them. I've even had them try to tell me there must be something wrong with my cables.

They will also inadvertently change the audio input controls while going handheld during that B-roll capture and if you don't check when they get back, your levels may be WAY off. Solution: put a piece of gaffers tape over the controls immediately after setting levels. (NOT DUCT TAPE, GAFFERS TAPE!!!)

Some cameras don't let you hear a stereo split in the headphones. You can hear all left, all right or a mono mix, regardless of where you have your mixer pan pots set.

Weird JVC anomaly: Last week I was on a shoot with a JVC camera that only had one XLR in the rear. It had another one in the front that the on-camera mic plugged into. By habit and convention, you might normally throw the channel 1/2 switches to REAR because that's how most cameras are set up.

We weren't split tracking so it didn't make any difference, but had we been, I would have had to set one camera input to FRONT. How to tell? During audio setup with a mixer, after tone is set, bring up one mic on the mixer and pan that audio from one side to the other. If it goes away when you go to one side and the camera meters also show reduced level on that side, the camera input switches are probably not in the right position. If the levels are there, but you don't hear audio, the headphone monitor switch is probably not set to BOTH.

Regards,

Ty Ford

[Ty Ford]

Originally Posted by Allen Plowman

I have a set of Audio Technica ATH-D40fs for use in loud environments. they are closed back headphones, and look similar to the ATH-M50 specs. the d40fs can be found for about half the price of the m50 at around 70 dollars I have sworn by the d40's for about 20 years now. I assume the m50 is a better set. if your short on cash, consider the d40. I am really curious as to the sound and performance difference between the two, I will probably buy an ATH-m50 the next time I need to replace mine.

I tried the 40s when they came out -- didn't like them at all. They are a totally different beast than the M50.

Ty Ford

[Allen Plowman]

sigh
*adds the M50 to the wish list

[Ty Ford]

Not even living in Paradise is without problems. :)

Regards,

Ty Ford

[Wayne Brissette]

Ty, have you used the M50's in a loud music setting? I haven't yet found a pair of standard studio style headphones I thought allowed me to hear enough of what I was capturing with the band blaring 90+ dB in the venue. That's why I switched to the Eytmotic 4 earphones.

Wayne

[Allen Plowman]

I have done a lot of work as a DJ and sound board operator, I can easily hit 120 db, and the d40 can be heard in that environment, although to expect to hear any type of detail in that environment is asking a bit much. I have tried headphones such as the hundred dollar sony's, and I can not hear them at all under those conditions.

[Wayne Brissette]

Originally Posted by Allen Plowman

I have done a lot of work as a DJ and sound board operator, I can easily hit 120 db,

Not around here you don't. ;-)

Our city ordinance prevents sound levels of anything above 85 dB, and trust me they are VERY strict about it. They give you a 2 dB padding, but the City of Austin won't cut anybody any slack. I was working the stage of Austin City Limits Music Festival one year and the police came close to shutting us down because the band's FOH engineer cranked up the levels to 90 dB. They warned him twice, before getting a bit more verbal about the issue.

But, I'm glad to hear that there some standard headphones that work in this environment. I was also mixing four inputs down to two and did need to hear the detail, so I'm still not sure they would have worked for me, but at least I know there are some other options now.

Wayne

[Ty Ford]

Originally Posted by Wayne Brissette

Ty, have you used the M50's in a loud music setting? I haven't yet found a pair of standard studio style headphones I thought allowed me to hear enough of what I was capturing with the band blaring 90+ dB in the venue. That's why I switched to the Eytmotic 4 earphones.

Wayne

Hey Wayne,

no, but I'm going to guess that ANY properly fit in-ear will block more ambi than over the ear phones. I haven't tried the eytmotics either.

I hear they are great but are problematic to put in and take out so you can hear what's going on around you rather than whatever the mics are picking up. Like when the client walks up to you and starts talking, thinking you can hear. What's you take on that.

Regards,

Ty Ford

[Wayne Brissette]

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

I hear they are great but are problematic to put in and take out so you can hear what's going on around you rather than whatever the mics are picking up. Like when the client walks up to you and starts talking, thinking you can hear. What's you take on that.

They give you two types of ends. A foam piece which I personally hate, and these white eartips. The trick to those is to get them wet first so you can slide them in. I went with custom ear molds, which are a breeze to get in and out.

However, as you point out, they are not without their problems. You'll hear what the mics pick up, but not what they person standing next to you is saying (unless it's through your mics). That can be an issue, but really when you're in a place where you have 85-100 dB of audible sound blasting around you. Most of the time you're screaming at each other anyhow.

Wayne

[J.J. Kim]

God saved me!!!
There was a guy (one of the fans that does loooots of audio recording for Dave Matthews Band and Tim Reynolds) was there recording the audio...
I finally found that out at the fan website and asked him if I Could use his audio and he was cool with it... wow... saved me BIG time.

http://www.vimeo.com/764150

here is the highlight clips with NEW ADJUSTED SUPPOSED TO BE audio.
thank you so much for all your help.
i am getting new sets of headphones next week.

jj