Senn Distortion at DVinfo.net

Bob Harotunian · July 3rd, 2003, 12:53 PM

I'm using a Senn ME66/K6 shotgun into a BeachTek adapter. Senn is plugged into right plug and BeachTek is set for Mono. Just completed a wedding but live band music sounded awful with distortion. The audio levels only occasionally exceeded the green dot and I had the MIC ATT off. Just completed a test to see if I could control the audio better with the BeachTek's volume controls. First test was to duplicate the distortion using my home stereo. This is what I don't understand...the volume was cranked up to the point of pain and the camera recorded the sound cleanly even though the audio meters were in the red. Does anyone know why loud home stereo records okay but a live band sounds distorted?
Thanks,
Bob

Joe Sacher · July 3rd, 2003, 01:08 PM

How loud was the band? I'm not an audio expert by any means, but I do know that a microphone does have a point where clipping occurs even before the signal is sent out of the mike. The amplitude might not exceed the levels in the camera to cause digital clipping, but the actual analog signal already has those characteristics. I'm not sure if that is what was gong on here, but the only thing that comes to my mind.

Jun Galinato · July 5th, 2003, 01:33 AM

I also used the k6 but with ME2 and yes you will get a distortion even you set it to manual. I turned on my attenuation and set the volume to 65% and wow! The audio is very clean even with a very loud and close to the speaker.

Lucas Hall · July 5th, 2003, 08:41 PM

Jun:
If you set it on manual mode at 65%, what happens when the targetted audio is too soft or too weak? I often find myself reaching my fingers on the cam to find the wheels and turn the volume up in weak audio scenarios. It sucks, because sometimes I was carrying the camera and doing that causing my camera (thus my footage) so shake.
Lucas

Jun Galinato · July 5th, 2003, 09:24 PM

Lucas, I'm using the ME62, omni directional capsule, so what ever position I am from the speaker, I got a loud sound.

Mike Rehmus · July 5th, 2003, 09:56 PM

If you need to capture both the band and voice, you will need to add to your setup, Lucas.

Set up a wireless for the band and run it to one channel, the other, with the on-board or local microphone can then be set for the specific level you need. For vocal pickup (like testimonials and toasts) I find a Shure Beta58 is excellent for capturing the voice and leaving the music in the background.

In post I can then handle the band music as necessary and bring the dialog levels up and down.

With a DJ, I frequently take a feed via a plug-on transmitter or with a wireless microphone placed on one of the speakers and projecting over the front of the speaker. Seems to work very well and I then get all the toasts and other verbage where they use the DJ's microphone.

Lucas Hall · July 5th, 2003, 11:49 PM

Mike:
I think I'll do that at the next wedding reception - mounting a transmitter with microphone at the front of a speaker. Do you use "auto" for this? I mean, the audio would be extremely hot and distorted if you use "manual" and have the volume a bit up by mistake.

Thanks for the input,
Lucas

Mike Rehmus · July 7th, 2003, 04:40 PM

The DJ is going to maintain a reasonable level so if he will give you a sound check or you just go up when the music is already playing at normal volumes, you should be OK. It's OK to record sound at slightly lower than normal levels and still not have excessive noise. In a music environment, its hard to tell the noise from the music anyway.

I'd set a manual leve, probable 2-3 notches below 50% on the manual control and keep an eye on it for a while.

July 3rd, 2003, 12:53 PM	#1
Bob Harotunian Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Somerville, MA Posts: 360	Senn Distortion I'm using a Senn ME66/K6 shotgun into a BeachTek adapter. Senn is plugged into right plug and BeachTek is set for Mono. Just completed a wedding but live band music sounded awful with distortion. The audio levels only occasionally exceeded the green dot and I had the MIC ATT off. Just completed a test to see if I could control the audio better with the BeachTek's volume controls. First test was to duplicate the distortion using my home stereo. This is what I don't understand...the volume was cranked up to the point of pain and the camera recorded the sound cleanly even though the audio meters were in the red. Does anyone know why loud home stereo records okay but a live band sounds distorted? Thanks, Bob

July 5th, 2003, 01:33 AM	#3
Jun Galinato Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Auburn, Washington Posts: 231	I also used the k6 but with ME2 and yes you will get a distortion even you set it to manual. I turned on my attenuation and set the volume to 65% and wow! The audio is very clean even with a very loud and close to the speaker. __________________ Sony Z7U, Canon 5D Mark II, Canon 24-105 F4L, Canon 70-200 F2.8L, Canon 580 EXII, Zoom H2.

July 5th, 2003, 09:24 PM	#5
Jun Galinato Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Auburn, Washington Posts: 231	Lucas, I'm using the ME62, omni directional capsule, so what ever position I am from the speaker, I got a loud sound. __________________ Sony Z7U, Canon 5D Mark II, Canon 24-105 F4L, Canon 70-200 F2.8L, Canon 580 EXII, Zoom H2.

July 5th, 2003, 09:56 PM	#6
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	If you need to capture both the band and voice, you will need to add to your setup, Lucas. Set up a wireless for the band and run it to one channel, the other, with the on-board or local microphone can then be set for the specific level you need. For vocal pickup (like testimonials and toasts) I find a Shure Beta58 is excellent for capturing the voice and leaving the music in the background. In post I can then handle the band music as necessary and bring the dialog levels up and down. With a DJ, I frequently take a feed via a plug-on transmitter or with a wireless microphone placed on one of the speakers and projecting over the front of the speaker. Seems to work very well and I then get all the toasts and other verbage where they use the DJ's microphone. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

July 7th, 2003, 04:40 PM	#8
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	The DJ is going to maintain a reasonable level so if he will give you a sound check or you just go up when the music is already playing at normal volumes, you should be OK. It's OK to record sound at slightly lower than normal levels and still not have excessive noise. In a music environment, its hard to tell the noise from the music anyway. I'd set a manual leve, probable 2-3 notches below 50% on the manual control and keep an eye on it for a while. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

July 3rd, 2003, 01:08 PM	#2
Joe Sacher Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 177	How loud was the band? I'm not an audio expert by any means, but I do know that a microphone does have a point where clipping occurs even before the signal is sent out of the mike. The amplitude might not exceed the levels in the camera to cause digital clipping, but the actual analog signal already has those characteristics. I'm not sure if that is what was gong on here, but the only thing that comes to my mind.

July 5th, 2003, 08:41 PM	#4
Lucas Hall Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 45	Jun: If you set it on manual mode at 65%, what happens when the targetted audio is too soft or too weak? I often find myself reaching my fingers on the cam to find the wheels and turn the volume up in weak audio scenarios. It sucks, because sometimes I was carrying the camera and doing that causing my camera (thus my footage) so shake. Lucas

July 5th, 2003, 11:49 PM	#7
Lucas Hall Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 45	Mike: I think I'll do that at the next wedding reception - mounting a transmitter with microphone at the front of a speaker. Do you use "auto" for this? I mean, the audio would be extremely hot and distorted if you use "manual" and have the volume a bit up by mistake. Thanks for the input, Lucas