Easiest way to send scratch track using SD702t at DVinfo.net

Marco Leavitt · February 8th, 2008, 05:30 PM

What's the easiest way to send a scratch track to a camera while using the SD302, SD702t combo? Do I want to try and feed the 702t from the 302's tape outs (and use the regular XLR outputs to feed the camera), or do I want do some kind of pass through with the 702t and connect the camera to it? I've checked out SD's site, hoping for some kind of linking cable like they have to connect mixers, but there doesn't seem to be anything.

Jeffery Magat · February 8th, 2008, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco Leavitt

What's the easiest way to send a scratch track to a camera while using the SD302, SD702t combo? Do I want to try and feed the 702t from the 302's tape outs (and use the regular XLR outputs to feed the camera), or do I want do some kind of pass through with the 702t and connect the camera to it? I've checked out SD's site, hoping for some kind of linking cable like they have to connect mixers, but there doesn't seem to be anything.

Whatever works.. just make the cable yourself.. Hell of a lot cheaper.

Peter Moretti · February 8th, 2008, 09:44 PM

Marco,

I'm going to be working on this very problem this weekend. But I suggest you give SD a call on Monday (if I don't have an answer for you by then).

FWIW, I would go with their cables--if they have one. They are top notch and you'll know they work and you're only looking at saving ~$20. But I imagine it's going to be a reasonably standard cable.

I believe the 702T has a passthrough split output that is not delayed, as well as one that is delayed by first going through the recording process.

May I as what NLE you're using? B/c if it's Avid, you can send the timecode from the 702T to the other audio track. Avid will recoginze this as timecode.

P.S. I remeber thinking about trying to send the monitoring signal off the 302 to the camera and monitoring off the recorder, or something like that. But I honestly don't think it's necessary.

Marco Leavitt · February 8th, 2008, 09:45 PM

".. just make the cable yourself.."

Yeah, clearly I need to acquire those kinds of skills, but in the meantime I'm looking for a premade product. I see that the 702T has two line-level analog outputs with TA3M (male?) connectors. Can I buy an adapter that will get me to standard XLR?

Marco Leavitt · February 8th, 2008, 09:51 PM

Ah Peter. I guess I'm looking for their XL-2 model number cable.

http://www.sounddevices.com/products...ies.htm#cables

Editor is using Final Cut, but this is not a timecode production. Cool tip about sending timecode to one track though.

Jeffery Magat · February 8th, 2008, 10:00 PM

okay okay..

http://www.trewaudio.com/store/produ...4&cat=0&page=1

Marco Leavitt · February 8th, 2008, 10:01 PM

Also this. I love Remote Audio cables. So pretty.

http://www.trewaudio.com/store/produ...cat=123&page=1

They also offer a mic level cable. What's the difference? Is it an attenuating cable or something?

http://www.trewaudio.com/store/produ...cat=123&page=1

Marco Leavitt · February 8th, 2008, 10:03 PM

Thanks Jeffrey. Next question I guess, do I really want to go from the tape out on the 302 to professional line in on the 702T. Bound to lose some quality there, aren't I?

Steve House · February 9th, 2008, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco Leavitt

Thanks Jeffrey. Next question I guess, do I really want to go from the tape out on the 302 to professional line in on the 702T. Bound to lose some quality there, aren't I?

Remember that the Tape Out of the 302 is fixed at a level of -15dBu. I expect that's going to be too low for the 702 line level and too hot for the 702 mic level.

I'd suggest sending the mixer main outs to the recorder main inputs and then from there either the recorder's XLR out (for a nominal 0dBu level) or Tape Out (for a nominal -10dBv level) on to the camera. When you set the Output Source Selector to "Input1, Input2" you're in a pass-thru mode where the input signals are always sent to the outputs regardless of whether you're rolling. Either that or send the 302 Tape OUt to the camera since that's just a scratch track. (Or I could come down as a sound utility and bring my 442 along <grin>)

Jeffery Magat · February 9th, 2008, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve House

Remember that the Tape Out of the 302 is fixed at a level of -15dBu. I expect that's going to be too low for the 702 line level and too hot for the 702 mic level.

I'd suggest sending the mixer main outs to the recorder main inputs and then from there either the recorder's XLR out (for a nominal 0dBu level) or Tape Out (for a nominal -10dBv level) on to the camera. When you set the Output Source Selector to "Input1, Input2" you're in a pass-thru mode where the input signals are always sent to the outputs regardless of whether you're rolling. Either that or send the 302 Tape OUt to the camera since that's just a scratch track. (Or I could come down as a sound utility and bring my 442 along <grin>)

Correct me if I'm wrong here, I know on the 744t you can adjust the line input levels via the setup menu or the front knobs. I'm not sure if the 702T is capable of that, but I would imagine you can do it on there too. I believe you can, but you should check the userguide just in case.

If you do decide to go through the outputs on the recorder, make sure you turn everything off on the front-end when you're sending tone to the camera. I've seen that happen (not to me :D) when post calls and says they can hear people talking during tone. :P

Steve House · February 9th, 2008, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffery Magat

Correct me if I'm wrong here, I know on the 744t you can adjust the line input levels via the setup menu or the front knobs. I'm not sure if the 702T is capable of that, but I would imagine you can do it on there too. I believe you can, but you should check the userguide just in case.
...

According to the manual they work the same with an input gain range of -6dB to +18dB. But don't know how effective that'll be if a -15dBu signal is presented on an input expecting a +4dBu line level. Perhaps padding it down to mic level would be a viable approach.

Jeffery Magat · February 9th, 2008, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve House

According to the manual they work the same with an input gain range of -6dB to +18dB. But don't know how effective that'll be if a -15dBu signal is presented on an input expecting a +4dBu line level. Perhaps padding it down to mic level would be a viable approach.

Tape out to SD recorder will work fine.

Ross Jones · February 9th, 2008, 11:23 AM

I have the SD302 + SD702. You can set the SD702 for Line input, and set the SD302 XLR outs at Line (default setting). Then send the XLR outs from the SD302 to the XLR inputs on the SD702. Send a 1kHz test tone from the 302 to the 702 and set the input levels via the 702's Input level knobs. Then push the knobs in and leave them there. The led meters on both pieces of gear should now be nicely aligned; i.e. '-20' on the 302 show also show -20 on the 702.
From the TA3 outs on the 702 (you can use the XL2 cable from SD) take that to your camera and set the camera inputs to Line.
In my workflow I also engage the Limiters on the 302; that way I'll never send a clipped signal to the 702.
Rgds, Ross.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Steve House · February 9th, 2008, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross Jones

I have the SD302 + SD702. You can set the SD702 for Line input, and set the SD302 XLR outs at Line (default setting). Then send the XLR outs from the SD302 to the XLR inputs on the SD702. Send a 1kHz test tone from the 302 to the 702 and set the input levels via the 702's Input level knobs. Then push the knobs in and leave them there. The led meters on both pieces of gear should now be nicely aligned; i.e. '-20' on the 302 show also show -20 on the 702.
From the TA3 outs on the 702 (you can use the XL2 cable from SD) take that to your camera and set the camera inputs to Line.
In my workflow I also engage the Limiters on the 302; that way I'll never send a clipped signal to the 702.
Rgds, Ross.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The problem we're wrestling with is not sending the 302's main outs to the 702 but rather using the -15dBu level tape outs. Marco wants to simultaneously record to the 702 with backup tracks going to the camera as well. So what goes to the 702 and what goes to the camera? As I see it, there's 3 options...

1: 302 main out to 702 inputs, 302 tape out to camera
2: 302 tape out to 702 inputs, 302 main out to camera
3: 302 main out to 702 inputs, 702 output (either main or tape) to camera, 702's inputs routed direct to outputs.

Marco didn't say what camera he was using but most prosumer cams have line level inputs that are 'consumer' -10dBv line level so I'd opt for number 1 as the most viable, number 3 as second.

Ross Jones · February 9th, 2008, 01:18 PM

Steve, I'd opt for your #3 - using main outs from the 702 rather than tape outs. You can then use the tape out on the 702 as a monitor feed if required..
If the plan is to get better audio (say 24bit / 48k) by recording onto the 702 and just put a scratch track onto the camera, then why would you send tape outs from the 302 to the 702? Best is to send XLR (Line level) out from the 302 to the 702's Inputs (set at Line level). At this point gain stages are nicely matched, and really good audio can get onto the 702.
I'd then use the TA3 outputs on the 702 to go to camera set at Line level (OK, we don't know what the camera type is...). If required you can attenuate the 702's outputs by up to 40dB in 1dB increments..
This arrangement works great for my XH-A1..
Rgds, Ross.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

February 8th, 2008, 05:30 PM	#1
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	Easiest way to send scratch track using SD702t What's the easiest way to send a scratch track to a camera while using the SD302, SD702t combo? Do I want to try and feed the 702t from the 302's tape outs (and use the regular XLR outputs to feed the camera), or do I want do some kind of pass through with the 702t and connect the camera to it? I've checked out SD's site, hoping for some kind of linking cable like they have to connect mixers, but there doesn't seem to be anything.

February 8th, 2008, 09:44 PM	#3
Peter Moretti Trustee Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA Posts: 1,259	Marco, I'm going to be working on this very problem this weekend. But I suggest you give SD a call on Monday (if I don't have an answer for you by then). FWIW, I would go with their cables--if they have one. They are top notch and you'll know they work and you're only looking at saving ~$20. But I imagine it's going to be a reasonably standard cable. I believe the 702T has a passthrough split output that is not delayed, as well as one that is delayed by first going through the recording process. May I as what NLE you're using? B/c if it's Avid, you can send the timecode from the 702T to the other audio track. Avid will recoginze this as timecode. P.S. I remeber thinking about trying to send the monitoring signal off the 302 to the camera and monitoring off the recorder, or something like that. But I honestly don't think it's necessary.

February 8th, 2008, 09:45 PM	#4
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	".. just make the cable yourself.." Yeah, clearly I need to acquire those kinds of skills, but in the meantime I'm looking for a premade product. I see that the 702T has two line-level analog outputs with TA3M (male?) connectors. Can I buy an adapter that will get me to standard XLR?

February 8th, 2008, 09:51 PM	#5
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	Ah Peter. I guess I'm looking for their XL-2 model number cable. http://www.sounddevices.com/products...ies.htm#cables Editor is using Final Cut, but this is not a timecode production. Cool tip about sending timecode to one track though.

February 8th, 2008, 10:00 PM	#6
Jeffery Magat Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 186	okay okay.. http://www.trewaudio.com/store/produ...4&cat=0&page=1

February 8th, 2008, 10:01 PM	#7
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	Also this. I love Remote Audio cables. So pretty. http://www.trewaudio.com/store/produ...cat=123&page=1 They also offer a mic level cable. What's the difference? Is it an attenuating cable or something? http://www.trewaudio.com/store/produ...cat=123&page=1

February 8th, 2008, 10:03 PM	#8
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	Thanks Jeffrey. Next question I guess, do I really want to go from the tape out on the 302 to professional line in on the 702T. Bound to lose some quality there, aren't I?

February 9th, 2008, 11:23 AM	#13
Ross Jones Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Harvard, MA Posts: 155	I have the SD302 + SD702. You can set the SD702 for Line input, and set the SD302 XLR outs at Line (default setting). Then send the XLR outs from the SD302 to the XLR inputs on the SD702. Send a 1kHz test tone from the 302 to the 702 and set the input levels via the 702's Input level knobs. Then push the knobs in and leave them there. The led meters on both pieces of gear should now be nicely aligned; i.e. '-20' on the 302 show also show -20 on the 702. From the TA3 outs on the 702 (you can use the XL2 cable from SD) take that to your camera and set the camera inputs to Line. In my workflow I also engage the Limiters on the 302; that way I'll never send a clipped signal to the 702. Rgds, Ross. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

February 9th, 2008, 01:18 PM	#15
Ross Jones Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Harvard, MA Posts: 155	Steve, I'd opt for your #3 - using main outs from the 702 rather than tape outs. You can then use the tape out on the 702 as a monitor feed if required.. If the plan is to get better audio (say 24bit / 48k) by recording onto the 702 and just put a scratch track onto the camera, then why would you send tape outs from the 302 to the 702? Best is to send XLR (Line level) out from the 302 to the 702's Inputs (set at Line level). At this point gain stages are nicely matched, and really good audio can get onto the 702. I'd then use the TA3 outputs on the 702 to go to camera set at Line level (OK, we don't know what the camera type is...). If required you can attenuate the 702's outputs by up to 40dB in 1dB increments.. This arrangement works great for my XH-A1.. Rgds, Ross. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~