Sennheiser mkh 416 vs other mics

[Peter Moretti]

Originally Posted by Wayne Brissette

I think this is the case only because of the mount, more than anything. Most everybody is using something that "kind of works"... I did use the 8040 on a job last week and was VERY happy with it, but it was a lot of interviews.

Wayne

Wayne, I have an MKH-60 and am very tempted to make an 8040 my next audio purchase. I read what you and Trew have to say about the 8040 being closer to the CMC641 than the 8050.

May I ask, how is the 8040 with handling room reflections (my main purpose for getting a companion for my 60)?

And how is the reach (I will sometimes be using it on a boom stand w/ no operator to reposition the mic)?

Thanks much. And anyone else with 804/50 experiences PLEASE chime in ;).

[Wayne Brissette]

Originally Posted by Peter Moretti

May I ask, how is the 8040 with handling room reflections (my main purpose for getting a companion for my 60)?

And how is the reach (I will sometimes be using it on a boom stand w/ no operator to reposition the mic)?

The interviews we did were medium and tight shots and I had no problem with them. Several people I know are using the 8040 now for concert mics (recording from stage lips and further back), and don't have a problem with the distance/reach of the mics.

The reflection is minimal from the recordings I used it on. I'll post some samples a bit later today from the interviews, so you can tell for yourself.

Wayne

[Dan Keaton]

Dear Ty,

The bands on the unit look just like the bands provided to me from my dealer, same size and thickness. I will double check this, today, if possible.

I have replaced two of the four bands already. I will be replacing the other two.

My dealer mentioned that it is nice to have the bands looser than one would normally expect.

[Roshdi Alkadri]

I've been using the 416 for two years now, an excellent mic i must say. Off axis and the sound will be colored, good to get enough coverage of the scene so you can choose different recordings.

[Abe Dolinger]

Dan, if you're still having problems with the zeppelin mount, try Rycote's pistol grip. It's obviously only good for foam/softie conditions, but it's been pretty forgiving for me. Then again, I think I get even less handling noise in my zeppelin, so your problem is definitely worth investigating.

Because of the great low-frequency response on the mic I often set the Cut 1 to somewhere between 1 and 3. Maybe rolling off a little more of the bass would help you too.

[Ty Ford]

I use the softie donut as part of my modified boom mount. The 8050 has too much LF response for it. I have not tried the 8040.

Regards,

Ty Ford

[Wayne Brissette]

Ty:

I'm not sure the 8040 would be any better. I really believe the issue most people are having is related to the mounts. I'm using the K-TEK mount, which isn't really all that wonderful, but the reality is there isn't much out there yet. I'm hoping to see the Rycote mount at NAB and I'll see if I go with that one. Sennheiser won't have their mount available until about NAB timeframe (or at least that's when they say they will ship my backorder), so we'll just have to wait a bit longer to see what happens.

In the meantime, here is a sample from an interview done with the 8040.

http://homepage.mac.com/wayneb/Interview8040.mp3
http://homepage.mac.com/wayneb/Interview8040.wav

No processing was done on this other than converting the one to an MP3 for those who just want a sample.

The room we did the interview in had hard concrete floors and a very large glass window on two sides of the room. Not the ideal location for an interview audio wise, but it had a nice look to it. So, Peter, this room would highlight the reflectiveness and I don't think it does. The mic is about 18-inches away from the subject.

Wayne

[Dan Goulder]

Originally Posted by Wayne Brissette

Ty:

The room we did the interview in had hard concrete floors and a very large glass window on two sides of the room. Not the ideal location for an interview audio wise, but it had a nice look to it. So, Peter, this room would highlight the reflectiveness and I don't think it does. The mic is about 18-inches away from the subject.

Wayne

How would you compare the reach of an 8040 with that of an MKH50 (or 8050)? What would you consider to be the approximate maximum distance of the 8040 from the subject before a qualitative dropoff? Do you think the 8040 pattern might be wide enough to capably pick up a two shot interview?
Thanks.

[Ty Ford]

Originally Posted by Wayne Brissette

Ty:
I'm using the K-TEK mount, which isn't really all that wonderful, but the reality is there isn't much out there yet.
Wayne

Not all K-tek are the same. I asked K-tek weeks ago and they shipped me a K-GPSS (short). My experiments with the K-Tek K-GPSS (Short) show it to be usable.

Regards,

Ty Ford

[Wayne Brissette]

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

Not all K-tek are the same. I asked K-tek weeks ago and they shipped me a K-GPSS (short). My experiments with the K-Tek K-GPSS (Short) show it to be usable.

Regards,

Ty Ford

I'm using the short K-SSM, which is barely usable, which is why I said I thought that people really are simply using what's on the market now, but hopefully a good solution will become available.

Wayne

[Wayne Brissette]

Originally Posted by Dan Goulder

Do you think the 8040 pattern might be wide enough to capably pick up a two shot interview?
Thanks.

The reality is, I haven't used it enough, or tested it enough to answer these questions for you. My rule of thumb is to get the mic as close as I can without being in the shot. In my sample, that was about 18-24 inches (closer to 18 for that part of the interview).

However, I think in general you have to be careful with multi-person interviews. I suspect you're thinking of mounting the mic on a C-Stand or something, right? I haven't tested it in this situation, but my gut feeling on this mic is that it should be OK depending on the way people are seated (or standing). If I ever do anything like this I can give you a real world report, for now, I can only give my best guess.

Wayne

[Ty Ford]

Originally Posted by Wayne Brissette

I'm using the short K-SSM, which is barely usable, which is why I said I thought that people really are simply using what's on the market now, but hopefully a good solution will become available.

Wayne

I spoke to K-tek and they agreed that the bands on the K-SSM were too thick for the 8000 series. That's why they sent me the K-GPSS. Its bands are lighter gauge. It works. You don't have to wait.

You may have to wait for a better pop filter. The foam one that comes with the mic is insufficient. Quick boom moves flutter the diaphragm.

Given these two obvious problems, it seems apparent to me that Sennheiser was NOT thinking about this mic as a boom mic.

I'm concerned that they may have suffered "generational loss" (GL). By that, I mean that every twenty (or so) years, people retire or move on and new people come in to an organization. Surely there are people who work for a company for longer, but there are fewer people in this category. When the experienced people leave, the assumption is that the company continues along, pretty much the same way. This is not always the case.

In some cases these folks end up being the guardians of certain aspects of technology. In the worst of cases, they hold on to "old ways" that have been outstripped by new and better ways. In the best of cases, they invented the "secret sauce" for a lot of a company's technology. When they leave, the full value of the knowledge may go with them. When changes to the recipe are made after their departure, the full impact of those changes may not be instantly recognizable in terms of quality or performance deficits.

Even if the "secret sauce" folks remain employed, other people in the company may take or be given control of the product. If these new people don't fully understand the nature of the technology or are more guided by other motives, the product may suffer.

Sometimes recipe changes are the result of forced manufacturing changes. The Sennheiser 421 is an interesting case. I was told that the main reasons for the 421 II were that the molds used to make the mic bodies were worn out and could no longer be used. The making of molds is very expensive. This forced a new design. They also changed the construction of the capsule (I'm not sure why. Perhaps they found a cheaper way to make it). The result was a presence peak that made voices (mine included) sound sibilant. The 421 is a valid vocal mic, the 421 II isn't.

Beyer did something similar with the M260. It is/was a very nice mic. The M260.80 just isn't.

As I continue to watch these isolated events, I keep asking "What were they thinking?"

My guess is that a lot of it has to do with manufacturing costs; either because the company wants to make a piece more profitable or because the cost of manufacturing for that piece has gone up and they are trying to hold the line against wholesale and retail price increases.

The other option is that there may be people in a company who rise to a position of control who don't really understand the product. They may make changes for many reasons without fully thinking through the implications. The audio inputs of the RED camera are an obvious example; what a non-standard mess!

Regards,

Ty Ford

[Wayne Brissette]

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

The audio inputs of the RED camera are an obvious example; what a non-standard mess!

:)

I have to call Ron Scelza soon about a piece of my gear that got left in his trailer, and I'll have to ask him about the RED rep who was on-set recently. He is working on a feature in New Orleans and they are shooting on two RED cameras (I still don't understand production companies...This is a tier one shoot and he offered me a gig working with him again on it, but the pay was horrible, yet they have two RED cameras, go figure).

According to one post I saw, the RED technical rep upgraded the firmware and did something that now turns the unit's fans off when shooting. That's a big step forward, but I don't know what if anything they did to fix any of the audio issues.

Wayne